Do you believe in possibility of miraculous healing through faith

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Feb 10, 2015
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Well the 1st thing I think of is that we are not under Old Test. Law.

The 2nd thing that comes to my mind is the "reason" behind the death penalty for false prophets. Specifically when reading the text from Deuteronomy 13 we need to understand the context of the closing verses of the previous chapter (12) in which Moses reminds the people that God was driving out the current occupants of the land not just for worshipping false gods, but for all the detestable things done in service to these gods.

In particular, he mentions that the Canaanites would burn their children alive in the fire of Molech as a sacrifice to these gods (Dt 12:29-31).

In Leviticus 18, Moses relays God’s warning to the Israelites against imitating the practices of the Canaanites. He then lists several forbidden activities such as incest, adultery, homosexual acts, temple prostitution, child sacrifice, and bestiality. Archeologists such as William Albright have uncovered writings that detail the adventures and pastimes of the imaginary deities. So, when the Canaanites were participating in the above acts, they were merely imitating the perceived exploits of their FALSE PROPHETS for their false gods.

Then there is also another reason and it is related to Israel’s type of government. The nation was created as a Theocracy under the Mosaic covenant at Sinai with the true God as their Sovereign Ruler. Over the next four hundred years, Moses, Joshua, and a series of judges guided Israel as God’s chosen servant leader. Even under the monarchy, the various kings were themselves subject to God’s sovereign rule in what became a modified theocracy. As a result, the false prophet’s actions essentially amounted to the highest form of treason, which was a capital offence even in most modern human-government countries. How much more serious is this crime when committed against the true infinitely Holy God.

Then there is the one that I personally find the most acceptable. The teachings of those False Prophets was an act of MURDER and God said thou shalt not Murder.

You see, by leading people astray, the false prophets condemned their followers to an eternal death and separation from God in hell. Thus their actions were the same as committing spiritual murder. We could note here that Satan himself was the original false prophet. By giving a false message to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 (“Did God really say…”), he condemned all mankind to physical death, and all unbelievers to spiritual and eternal death.
I don't think we disagree regarding OT treatment of false prophets. Where we may disagree is how that applies to common believer witnessing after the closing of the cannon.

You can find much to disagree in society and you can spend much effort and heart-ache going to great lengths to confront evil, even though we know that society will continue to get worse and worse until He comes.

Or, you could adopt the approach oh Paul at Mars Hill (Acts 17). He could have used TRUTH to confront and condemn them, but he approached them in love and talked to them as at least potential friends.

Many did reject his teaching, but some accepted Paul's message.

How many do you think he would have convinced through condemnation?

The Truth is narrow when observed from the world, but His kingdom is truly wide. It has many aspects and some are more likely to open the ears of individuals.

You can choose to batter your head against on a stuborn unbeliever, who refuses to heed your understanding or you can look for a way to help them listen to the leading of the Spirit.

Few may accept the Truth.

Fewer still will respond to a frontal assault.
 
Dec 5, 2020
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I have not come across any actual faith healers, but I have learned personally that God can and does do miraculous things. There have been numerous times that I know God has acted in my life and lives of others around me. Sometimes I think we limit God and what he can and will do.


Food for thought:
Luke 11:9
Matthew 21:21-22
John 16:24
1 John 3:18-24

I've come to know these things are true. There was a time I only thought they must be true, but I had no evidence.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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I have not come across any actual faith healers, but I have learned personally that God can and does do miraculous things. There have been numerous times that I know God has acted in my life and lives of others around me. Sometimes I think we limit God and what he can and will do.


Food for thought:
Luke 11:9
Matthew 21:21-22
John 16:24
1 John 3:18-24

I've come to know these things are true. There was a time I only thought they must be true, but I had no evidence.

Agreed and that is exactly what I have said from the beginning. GOD heals! God does many wonderful things.

The Apostles healed. The Apostles did many wonderful things including raising the dead because THEY had the SIGN gifts given to them by the Lord Jesus Christ in order to spread the gospel. He gave THEM the word of God and allowed them to establish the church.

We now/today have the written Word of God. To expect a miracle or a healing from a man is actually a lack of faith in God.

Now I am too old to be political and I hate political correctness so that is my leaned and convicted position.

God bless you and keep you safe in these difficult days.
 
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Agreed and that is exactly what I have said from the beginning. GOD heals! God does many wonderful things.

The Apostles healed. The Apostles did many wonderful things including raising the dead because THEY had the SIGN gifts given to them by the Lord Jesus Christ in order to spread the gospel. He gave THEM the word of God and allowed them to establish the church.

We now/today have the written Word of God. To expect a miracle or a healing from a man is actually a lack of faith in God.

Now I am too old to be political and I hate political correctness so that is my leaned and convicted position.

God bless you and keep you safe in these difficult days.
The purpose of those sign gifta were to comfirm the Gospel and that Jesus was Lord. and while none are gifted to do such as Apostles were today, God might still be doing something like that in missions, as way to impact area closed to the message of Jesus until now! Once established though, would be norm of the scriptures once again!
 

Jaybo

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I am jumping into this discussion long after it began, so I apologize if what I write has already been discussed.

I was healed by Jesus Christ in a Minnesota hospital. I had an unbreakable asthma spasm; there was nothing that the doctors and nurses could do. A local pastor came by, read some scripture to me -- Matthew 11:28-30 -- then asked if she could pray for me. When I said yes, she put her hands on my chest and said, "Jesus, heal this man". At that second, the spasm broke and I began coughing and thanking Jesus. I was completely healed by the Lord, and at that moment I changed from being an atheist to being a Christian.
 

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I am jumping into this discussion long after it began, so I apologize if what I write has already been discussed.

I was healed by Jesus Christ in a Minnesota hospital. I had an unbreakable asthma spasm; there was nothing that the doctors and nurses could do. A local pastor came by, read some scripture to me -- Matthew 11:28-30 -- then asked if she could pray for me. When I said yes, she put her hands on my chest and said, "Jesus, heal this man". At that second, the spasm broke and I began coughing and thanking Jesus. I was completely healed by the Lord, and at that moment I changed from being an atheist to being a Christian.

Hello Jaybo;

Thank you for sharing your testimonial praise! I was born with asthma, almost died twice as a child. One night my mother laid in bed with me and prayed when I had a severe asthma attack and hallucinations (long story.) I fell asleep and the next morning I was cured from this serious illness, for a 5 year old child.

Growing up I was active and played sports while battling asthma but after I turned 13 it went away, completely.

Your testimony touched us all, brother. Praise God for His great healing.

God bless you, Jaybo, your family and Merry Christmas.
 
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I am jumping into this discussion long after it began, so I apologize if what I write has already been discussed.

I was healed by Jesus Christ in a Minnesota hospital. I had an unbreakable asthma spasm; there was nothing that the doctors and nurses could do. A local pastor came by, read some scripture to me -- Matthew 11:28-30 -- then asked if she could pray for me. When I said yes, she put her hands on my chest and said, "Jesus, heal this man". At that second, the spasm broke and I began coughing and thanking Jesus. I was completely healed by the Lord, and at that moment I changed from being an atheist to being a Christian.

I understand your post...however, that has nothing to do with the Sign Gifts as recorded in Mark 16.

I am very pleased to hear your testimony but It has been well established that God heals people through the prayers of others.

God also heals people simply because He wants to do so.
 

Jaybo

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I understand your post...however, that has nothing to do with the Sign Gifts as recorded in Mark 16.

I am very pleased to hear your testimony but It has been well established that God heals people through the prayers of others.

God also heals people simply because He wants to do so.

Looking at the subject of the thread, it reads "Do you believe in [the] possibility of miraculous healings through faith". That is what I wrote about.

Mark 16 is part of the "longer ending" of the gospel and its authenticity is disputed by a significant number of scholars. That said, verse 17 says' "These signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; they will pick up snakes with their hands, and whatever poison they drink will not harm them; they will place their hands on the sick and they will be well.” If you accept these writings as genuine (I don't), it still says that believers will be able to heal the sick.

So my answer to the OP remains "yes, I believe in [the] possibility of miraculous healings through faith".
 
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Looking at the subject of the thread, it reads "Do you believe in [the] possibility of miraculous healings through faith". That is what I wrote about.

Mark 16 is part of the "longer ending" of the gospel and its authenticity is disputed by a significant number of scholars. That said, verse 17 says' "These signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; they will pick up snakes with their hands, and whatever poison they drink will not harm them; they will place their hands on the sick and they will be well.” If you accept these writings as genuine (I don't), it still says that believers will be able to heal the sick.

So my answer to the OP remains "yes, I believe in [the] possibility of miraculous healings through faith".
God still free to divine heal, theru surgery, thru medicine, or thru the grave!
 
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I understand your post...however, that has nothing to do with the Sign Gifts as recorded in Mark 16.

I am very pleased to hear your testimony but It has been well established that God heals people through the prayers of others.

God also heals people simply because He wants to do so.
Think 2 extremes to avoid would be to say God cannot chose to heal or do miracles at all now, or that He is doing therm just the same as was in Acts!
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Looking at the subject of the thread, it reads "Do you believe in [the] possibility of miraculous healings through faith". That is what I wrote about.

Mark 16 is part of the "longer ending" of the gospel and its authenticity is disputed by a significant number of scholars. That said, verse 17 says' "These signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; they will pick up snakes with their hands, and whatever poison they drink will not harm them; they will place their hands on the sick and they will be well.” If you accept these writings as genuine (I don't), it still says that believers will be able to heal the sick.

So my answer to the OP remains "yes, I believe in [the] possibility of miraculous healings through faith".

I understand completly the long and short endings of Mark. It has been an argument for hundreds of years. The debate on God healing is not the question as it has been well established that He certainly does. The real point is....DO MEN today have the gift of miracle healings.
Are there men who today possess the Sign Gift of healing?


Now, the point in reality is that the "LONG" version is actually in the Scriptures. That means that God wanted it in there so there it is.

Secondly, now think about this...........IF the long version IS NOT included then there is NO BASIS for anyone being able to claim to have the Sign Gifts which were included by Christ to the ELEVEN Apostles. The ONLY place in the Scriptures where the Sign Gifts are found is in the LONG VERSION.
Discount it as you are doing and then your argument disappears.

So the point you are agreeing with then does not even exist as what is good for the goose is also good for the gander and vice versa.
 

Jaybo

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I understand completly the long and short endings of Mark. It has been an argument for hundreds of years. The debate on God healing is not the question as it has been well established that He certainly does. The real point is....DO MEN today have the gift of miracle healings.
Are there men who today possess the Sign Gift of healing?


Now, the point in reality is that the "LONG" version is actually in the Scriptures. That means that God wanted it in there so there it is.

Secondly, now think about this...........IF the long version IS NOT included then there is NO BASIS for anyone being able to claim to have the Sign Gifts which were included by Christ to the ELEVEN Apostles. The ONLY place in the Scriptures where the Sign Gifts are found is in the LONG VERSION.
Discount it as you are doing and then your argument disappears.

So the point you are agreeing with then does not even exist as what is good for the goose is also good for the gander and vice versa.

The "long version" of Mark is disputed; most scholars considered that it was a later addition to the Gospel. There are explanatory notes preceding that section as a caveat, but it's included in most Bibles for historical reasons. It's in Scriptures because the editors wanted it included; it has nothing to do with God wanting it there.

Here are the (long) translators' notes from the NET... "The Gospel of Mark ends at this point in some witnesses (א B sys sams armmss geomss Eus Eusmss Hiermss), including two of the most respected mss (א B). This is known as the “short ending.” The following “intermediate” ending is found in some mss: “They reported briefly to those around Peter all that they had been commanded. After these things Jesus himself sent out through them, from the east to the west, the holy and imperishable preaching of eternal salvation. Amen.” This intermediate ending is usually included with the longer ending (L Ψ 083 099 579 pc); k, however, ends at this point. Most mss include the “long ending” (vv. 9-20) immediately after v. 8 (A C D W [which has unique material between vv. 14 and 15] Θ ƒ13 33 M lat syc,p,h bo); however, Eusebius (and presumably Jerome) knew of almost no Greek mss that had this ending. Several mss have marginal comments noting that earlier Greek mss lacked the verses. Internal evidence strongly suggests the secondary nature of both the intermediate and the long endings. Their vocabulary, syntax, and style are decidedly non-Markan (for further details, see TCGNT 102-6). All of this evidence indicates that as time went on scribes added the longer ending, either for the richness of its material or because of the abruptness of the ending at v. 8. (Indeed, the strange variety of dissimilar endings attests to the likelihood that early scribes had a copy of Mark that ended at v. 8, and they filled out the text with what seemed to be an appropriate conclusion. All of the witnesses for alternative endings to vv. 9-20 thus indirectly confirm the Gospel as ending at v. 8.) Because of such problems regarding the authenticity of these alternative endings, 16:8 is usually regarded today as the last verse of the Gospel of Mark. There are three possible explanations for Mark ending at 16:8: (1) The author intentionally ended the Gospel here in an open-ended fashion; (2) the Gospel was never finished; or (3) the last leaf of the ms was lost prior to copying. This first explanation is the most likely due to several factors, including (a) the probability that the Gospel was originally written on a scroll rather than a codex (only on a codex would the last leaf get lost prior to copying); (b) the unlikelihood of the ms not being completed; and (c) the literary power of ending the Gospel so abruptly that the readers are now drawn into the story itself. E. Best aptly states, “It is in keeping with other parts of his Gospel that Mark should not give an explicit account of a conclusion where this is already well known to his readers” (Mark, 73; note also his discussion of the ending of this Gospel on 132 and elsewhere). The readers must now ask themselves, “What will I do with Jesus? If I do not accept him in his suffering, I will not see him in his glory.” For further discussion and viewpoints, see Perspectives on the Ending of Mark: Four Views, ed. D. A. Black (Nashville: B&H Academic, 2008); Nicholas P. Lunn, The Original Ending of Mark: A New Case for the Authenticity of Mark 16:9-20 (London: Pickwick, 2014); Gregory P. Sapaugh, “An Appraisal of the Intrinsic Probability of the Longer Endings of the Gospel of Mark” (Ph.D. diss., Dallas Theological Seminary, 2012).sn Double brackets have been placed around this passage to indicate that most likely it was not part of the original text of the Gospel of Mark. In spite of this, the passage has an important role in the history of the transmission of the text, so it has been included in the translation.

Your claim about the gifts to the eleven apostles means nothing if you don't accept the "long ending" as part of Scripture. I and many, many others, including the above, don't.
 
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God has a purpose for all things that he allows or does. We know that Christians receive spiritual gifts outside of Mark. These are gifts that God gives for various reasons. I have not actually seen true faith healers. Does that mean there are none, not necessarily nor does it say that there will not be in the future. In fact I believe there will be greater gifts in the near future as God warns nonbelievers in the future before Christ comes.

The main point being that signs and wonders are not for believers, but for unbelievers revealing the power of God. Often today God works directly with individuals he calls showing the way of faith rather than the way of signs and wonders. In my life I've seen wonders acting on the faith God gives. The wonders don't lead me to God, the wonders are the blessings of trust and the evidence of faith in the unseen hand of God.

Many believe that if God only showed himself through signs and wonders that many would believe and ancient Israel's example should have revealed to us by now that this is simply not true. These might momentarily give us pause, but unless God opens our minds and hearts and converts us our carnal nature remains and we cannot please God.
 

Jaybo

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God has a purpose for all things that he allows or does. We know that Christians receive spiritual gifts outside of Mark. These are gifts that God gives for various reasons. I have not actually seen true faith healers. Does that mean there are none, not necessarily nor does it say that there will not be in the future. In fact I believe there will be greater gifts in the near future as God warns nonbelievers in the future before Christ comes.

The main point being that signs and wonders are not for believers, but for unbelievers revealing the power of God. Often today God works directly with individuals he calls showing the way of faith rather than the way of signs and wonders. In my life I've seen wonders acting on the faith God gives. The wonders don't lead me to God, the wonders are the blessings of trust and the evidence of faith in the unseen hand of God.

Many believe that if God only showed himself through signs and wonders that many would believe and ancient Israel's example should have revealed to us by now that this is simply not true. These might momentarily give us pause, but unless God opens our minds and hearts and converts us our carnal nature remains and we cannot please God.
You wrote "Many believe that if God only showed himself through signs and wonders that many would believe and ancient Israel's example should have revealed to us by now that this is simply not true." Amen! When Jesus was on Earth performing miracle after miracle there were still some who didn't/couldn't/wouldn't believe.
 
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The "long version" of Mark is disputed; most scholars considered that it was a later addition to the Gospel. There are explanatory notes preceding that section as a caveat, but it's included in most Bibles for historical reasons. It's in Scriptures because the editors wanted it included; it has nothing to do with God wanting it there.

Here are the (long) translators' notes from the NET... "The Gospel of Mark ends at this point in some witnesses (א B sys sams armmss geomss Eus Eusmss Hiermss), including two of the most respected mss (א B). This is known as the “short ending.” The following “intermediate” ending is found in some mss: “They reported briefly to those around Peter all that they had been commanded. After these things Jesus himself sent out through them, from the east to the west, the holy and imperishable preaching of eternal salvation. Amen.” This intermediate ending is usually included with the longer ending (L Ψ 083 099 579 pc); k, however, ends at this point. Most mss include the “long ending” (vv. 9-20) immediately after v. 8 (A C D W [which has unique material between vv. 14 and 15] Θ ƒ13 33 M lat syc,p,h bo); however, Eusebius (and presumably Jerome) knew of almost no Greek mss that had this ending. Several mss have marginal comments noting that earlier Greek mss lacked the verses. Internal evidence strongly suggests the secondary nature of both the intermediate and the long endings. Their vocabulary, syntax, and style are decidedly non-Markan (for further details, see TCGNT 102-6). All of this evidence indicates that as time went on scribes added the longer ending, either for the richness of its material or because of the abruptness of the ending at v. 8. (Indeed, the strange variety of dissimilar endings attests to the likelihood that early scribes had a copy of Mark that ended at v. 8, and they filled out the text with what seemed to be an appropriate conclusion. All of the witnesses for alternative endings to vv. 9-20 thus indirectly confirm the Gospel as ending at v. 8.) Because of such problems regarding the authenticity of these alternative endings, 16:8 is usually regarded today as the last verse of the Gospel of Mark. There are three possible explanations for Mark ending at 16:8: (1) The author intentionally ended the Gospel here in an open-ended fashion; (2) the Gospel was never finished; or (3) the last leaf of the ms was lost prior to copying. This first explanation is the most likely due to several factors, including (a) the probability that the Gospel was originally written on a scroll rather than a codex (only on a codex would the last leaf get lost prior to copying); (b) the unlikelihood of the ms not being completed; and (c) the literary power of ending the Gospel so abruptly that the readers are now drawn into the story itself. E. Best aptly states, “It is in keeping with other parts of his Gospel that Mark should not give an explicit account of a conclusion where this is already well known to his readers” (Mark, 73; note also his discussion of the ending of this Gospel on 132 and elsewhere). The readers must now ask themselves, “What will I do with Jesus? If I do not accept him in his suffering, I will not see him in his glory.” For further discussion and viewpoints, see Perspectives on the Ending of Mark: Four Views, ed. D. A. Black (Nashville: B&H Academic, 2008); Nicholas P. Lunn, The Original Ending of Mark: A New Case for the Authenticity of Mark 16:9-20 (London: Pickwick, 2014); Gregory P. Sapaugh, “An Appraisal of the Intrinsic Probability of the Longer Endings of the Gospel of Mark” (Ph.D. diss., Dallas Theological Seminary, 2012).sn Double brackets have been placed around this passage to indicate that most likely it was not part of the original text of the Gospel of Mark. In spite of this, the passage has an important role in the history of the transmission of the text, so it has been included in the translation.

Your claim about the gifts to the eleven apostles means nothing if you don't accept the "long ending" as part of Scripture. I and many, many others, including the above, don't.

I have NO idea what you are talking about. If you will read post #111 you will clearly see that I NEVER said I did not accept the "long ending" of Mark my brother.

I actual said...........
".IF the long version IS NOT included then there is NO BASIS for anyone being able to claim to have the Sign Gifts which were included by Christ to the ELEVEN Apostles. The ONLY place in the Scriptures where the Sign Gifts are found is in the LONG VERSION."

The fact is that IT IS in the gospel of Mark as it is ALL other translations!

That was and is not the focus of the thread. The point was that the ELEVEN Apostles were the only ones given the "Sign Gifts" and that is exactly what is seen in Mark 16:14-17.......The Long Version.
 

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Jaybo

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I have NO idea what you are talking about. If you will read post #111 you will clearly see that I NEVER said I did not accept the "long ending" of Mark my brother.

I actual said...........
".IF the long version IS NOT included then there is NO BASIS for anyone being able to claim to have the Sign Gifts which were included by Christ to the ELEVEN Apostles. The ONLY place in the Scriptures where the Sign Gifts are found is in the LONG VERSION."

The fact is that IT IS in the gospel of Mark as it is ALL other translations!

That was and is not the focus of the thread. The point was that the ELEVEN Apostles were the only ones given the "Sign Gifts" and that is exactly what is seen in Mark 16:14-17.......The Long Version.

If you accept the long ending of Mark as Scripture then you agree with the doctrine of the "sign gifts". However, the preponderance of scholarly evidence is that Mark 16 is an addition to the original gospel, so the argument of the so-called "sign gifts" is moot. I personally believe that the Gospel of Mark as written is Scripture; a later addition is not. Therefore, the so-called "sign gifts" of the "long ending" of Mark have no validity.

If people do believe that Mark 16 is valid, then let's see them pick up some venomous snakes and drink some poison... " they will pick up snakes with their hands, and whatever poison they drink will not harm them; they will place their hands on the sick and they will be well."

While I firmly believe in Biblical healing, a practice which continues right through until today, it can't be validated through a questionable addition to Mark's gospel.
 

Jaybo

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From the NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible... "Scholars almost universally agree that this section is a later attempt, perhaps by a second-century scribe, to rectify the perceived problem of v. 8 (see note on v. 8). The earliest and best manuscripts do not have these verses; they are unknown to a number of early church fathers; and the vocabulary and style differ from the rest of Mark."
 
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If you accept the long ending of Mark as Scripture then you agree with the doctrine of the "sign gifts". However, the preponderance of scholarly evidence is that Mark 16 is an addition to the original gospel, so the argument of the so-called "sign gifts" is moot. I personally believe that the Gospel of Mark as written is Scripture; a later addition is not. Therefore, the so-called "sign gifts" of the "long ending" of Mark have no validity.

If people do believe that Mark 16 is valid, then let's see them pick up some venomous snakes and drink some poison... " they will pick up snakes with their hands, and whatever poison they drink will not harm them; they will place their hands on the sick and they will be well."

While I firmly believe in Biblical healing, a practice which continues right through until today, it can't be validated through a questionable addition to Mark's gospel.

We agree!!!!

That is actually what I have stated.
 
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