Do you believe in possibility of miraculous healing through faith

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Sep 3, 2009
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If you invoke the parable of the watchman, then do you also believe a Christian is personally responsible for the sins (iniquity) of those that the Christian fails to preach (whose 'blood I will require at the watchman's hand')?

Or, is this a special enjunction placed upon Ezekiel as a prophet God in the narrowest sense of the title 'prophet'

I do not accept the Scripture of the Watchman as a parable. A parable is a "story" said in a way so as the simple minded people that we are can grasp the meaning.

However in Ezekiel 33:1 it is GOD who says that ........
"Again, the Word of the Lord came unto me saying.........".!

To answer your question, the context of Ezekiel 33:6 is that the people were going to be judged for their sin, but the watchman will be held responsible if he does not warn them. Ezekiel warned them..........the false prophets had lied to them. Ezekiel had done a good job and fulfilled his calling.

The responsiblity of the watchman is to warn the wicked that there is a judgment day coming. So YES........I have done exactly that my dear brother.
Does that then mean I am responsible for their sins???? NO!

Every man is responsible for his own sin. Todays preacher of Gods Word is not called or required to get results. SPREAD THE GOSPEL. It is then Gods job to save those that hear because romans 10:17 says.......
"Faith comes by the hearing and hearing by the Word of God".
 
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The problem with this is that rather than using Scripture as ones personal standard, winch necessitates self examination, It focuses our greatest interest on others thru the lens of often inadequately examined personal views.

There is a balancing act between self examination and applying His teachings to one's self and putting the resulting understanding into action in the world around us.

Many of the doctrinal differences are based upon differing understandings of what Scripture is telling us. Other than as His leading requires, He does not need my judgements concerning which are correct.

I have noticed that many unbelievers have used too public arguments among believers as justifying their rejection.

As our Lord observed:

And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
Mark 3:25

You are correct. That has happened many times and will do so again. However.....may I say that today is a good time to be a false teacher and to espouse deadly doctrine.

It’s the ones who sound the warning and issue the challenge that bear the risk—the risk of being labelled “haters" or causing division.

Love, it seems, requires us to bear patiently with any amount of error. And this kind of love, we are told, is modeled after Jesus. Jesus did not judge, Jesus welcomed all opinions, Jesus would have accepted different kinds of teachings—so long as those teachings contained love and hints of truth.

Is that actually truth or a loving thought.

When we read through the Gospels we see that Jesus interacted with people who were seeking, wandering, or misguided, he was invariably compassionate. He answered them with patience and gentleness. But when Jesus engaged with religious hypocrites and false teachers, he responded with righteous fury and bold conviction along with condemnation.

Today, those who love the truth must learn how to show such bold conviction through the old discipline of polemics—the practice of engaging in public debate and dispute.

Matthew 23:23 gives the correct attitude of Jesus toward false teachers......
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean”.

In Matthew 23 alone, Jesus calls the scribes and Pharisees “hypocrites” six times. Besides that, he calls them “blind guides,” “blind fools,” “blind men,” “whitewashed tombs,” “sons of those who murdered the prophets,” “serpents,” and “brood of vipers.”

I wonder if someone said that today about a false prophet who said heresy and his actual words were produced if it would pass muster with our moderators????
 
Nov 18, 2020
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You are correct. That has happened many times and will do so again. However.....may I say that today is a good time to be a false teacher and to espouse deadly doctrine.

It’s the ones who sound the warning and issue the challenge that bear the risk—the risk of being labelled “haters" or causing division.

Love, it seems, requires us to bear patiently with any amount of error. And this kind of love, we are told, is modeled after Jesus. Jesus did not judge, Jesus welcomed all opinions, Jesus would have accepted different kinds of teachings—so long as those teachings contained love and hints of truth.

Is that actually truth or a loving thought.

When we read through the Gospels we see that Jesus interacted with people who were seeking, wandering, or misguided, he was invariably compassionate. He answered them with patience and gentleness. But when Jesus engaged with religious hypocrites and false teachers, he responded with righteous fury and bold conviction along with condemnation.

Today, those who love the truth must learn how to show such bold conviction through the old discipline of polemics—the practice of engaging in public debate and dispute.

Matthew 23:23 gives the correct attitude of Jesus toward false teachers......
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean”.

In Matthew 23 alone, Jesus calls the scribes and Pharisees “hypocrites” six times. Besides that, he calls them “blind guides,” “blind fools,” “blind men,” “whitewashed tombs,” “sons of those who murdered the prophets,” “serpents,” and “brood of vipers.”

I wonder if someone said that today about a false prophet who said heresy and his actual words were produced if it would pass muster with our moderators????
Look at the extreme "heat" both Dave Hunt and Dr MacArthur had from other Christians even when they exposed word of faith teachers and teachings!
 
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Absolutly agreed. When UNITY becomes more important than truth.......heresy soon follows.
That is a false dichotomy.
It is not unit or truth... It is unity under the One We Serve.

Strive to understand our brothers who approach Him from a differing perspective.

This does not mean adopting a view with which one does not agree as much as making shared faith in the Center central to our message.

We can, and should discuss these things in love without branding our brothers as false teachers.
 
Feb 10, 2015
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I do not accept the Scripture of the Watchman as a parable. A parable is a "story" said in a way so as the simple minded people that we are can grasp the meaning.

However in Ezekiel 33:1 it is GOD who says that ........
"Again, the Word of the Lord came unto me saying.........".!

To answer your question, the context of Ezekiel 33:6 is that the people were going to be judged for their sin, but the watchman will be held responsible if he does not warn them. Ezekiel warned them..........the false prophets had lied to them. Ezekiel had done a good job and fulfilled his calling.

The responsiblity of the watchman is to warn the wicked that there is a judgment day coming. So YES........I have done exactly that my dear brother.
Does that then mean I am responsible for their sins???? NO!

Every man is responsible for his own sin. Todays preacher of Gods Word is not called or required to get results. SPREAD THE GOSPEL. It is then Gods job to save those that hear because romans 10:17 says.......
"Faith comes by the hearing and hearing by the Word of God".
Agreed, in principle, but if you look at Ezekiel's commission in Ch 2&3, it is clear that God wanted to impress upon Ezekiel that he was commended to affirmatively fulfill his office.

For example Ezekiel 2:8.

A the penalty of death was always applied to false prophets. God was specifically telling Ezekiel that he could not evade that requirement by remaining silent (and thus circumvent the issue).

But we are not Old Testament prophets. We are expected to be His witnesses, but a prophets special death penalty does not apply.
 
Nov 18, 2020
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That is a false dichotomy.
It is not unit or truth... It is unity under the One We Serve.

Strive to understand our brothers who approach Him from a differing perspective.

This does not mean adopting a view with which one does not agree as much as making shared faith in the Center central to our message.

We can, and should discuss these things in love without branding our brothers as false teachers.
Those who are into false doctrines and teachings though are not our brothers in the Lord. but wolves among the sheep!
 
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The false teachings that 1st century Christians were warned about in the New Testament were such as the Gnostics and related heresies that held views regarding the very nature of God and Jesus in such a way as to strike at the heart of Christ's diety and the nature of salvation.

In comparison, debates around healing or manner of prayer or the form of baptism become relatively trivial.
 

Via dolarossa

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There is some truth in word of faith, isn’t there?
See, I don’t sit praying for 1 million pounds, because I don’t need it!
I don’t pray for what I particularly want, I pray for general blessings...and for God to guide me to what is best for me and others.
Now I have heard WOF preachers teach to pray what you want, and one I like doesn’t really do that.
But since this thread exists and you people here have more biblical understanding and knowledge, if I am unsure of anything he preaches I will certainly ask here.( without naming anyone)
Thanks
 
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Hello everyone - As we mature in our Walk, we may start to see things that others say as not being totally accurate. That is because there are as many as 36,000 differing Christian Belief systems these days. Let us all be mindful of the beliefs of others ( under Forum Rules 3.2a, b and c ) and accommodate others without criticism or demeaning.
 
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Those who are into false doctrines and teachings though are not our brothers in the Lord. but wolves among the sheep!
With the exception of Romans, the letters of Paul addressed problems in the local congregations. He reproved with love where necessary and encouraged when he could. He allways treated them as brothers.
 
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The false teachings that 1st century Christians were warned about in the New Testament were such as the Gnostics and related heresies that held views regarding the very nature of God and Jesus in such a way as to strike at the heart of Christ's diety and the nature of salvation.

In comparison, debates around healing or manner of prayer or the form of baptism become relatively trivial.
Word of faith heresy is Modern day Gnosticism revived!
 
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Hello everyone - As we mature in our Walk, we may start to see things that others say as not being totally accurate. That is because there are as many as 36,000 differing Christian Belief systems these days. Let us all be mindful of the beliefs of others ( under Forum Rules 3.2a, b and c ) and accommodate others without criticism or demeaning.
There are still heresies though in the Church being promoted, such as word of faith!
 
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With the exception of Romans, the letters of Paul addressed problems in the local congregations. He reproved with love where necessary and encouraged when he could. He allways treated them as brothers.
Yes, as I accept a person as fellow brother/sister regardless of views on water baptism, church govt, or spiritual gifts even, but some things go into being beyond the pale, such as word of faith!
 
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Agreed, in principle, but if you look at Ezekiel's commission in Ch 2&3, it is clear that God wanted to impress upon Ezekiel that he was commended to affirmatively fulfill his office.

For example Ezekiel 2:8.

A the penalty of death was always applied to false prophets. God was specifically telling Ezekiel that he could not evade that requirement by remaining silent (and thus circumvent the issue).

But we are not Old Testament prophets. We are expected to be His witnesses, but a prophets special death penalty does not apply.

Well the 1st thing I think of is that we are not under Old Test. Law.

The 2nd thing that comes to my mind is the "reason" behind the death penalty for false prophets. Specifically when reading the text from Deuteronomy 13 we need to understand the context of the closing verses of the previous chapter (12) in which Moses reminds the people that God was driving out the current occupants of the land not just for worshipping false gods, but for all the detestable things done in service to these gods.

In particular, he mentions that the Canaanites would burn their children alive in the fire of Molech as a sacrifice to these gods (Dt 12:29-31).

In Leviticus 18, Moses relays God’s warning to the Israelites against imitating the practices of the Canaanites. He then lists several forbidden activities such as incest, adultery, homosexual acts, temple prostitution, child sacrifice, and bestiality. Archeologists such as William Albright have uncovered writings that detail the adventures and pastimes of the imaginary deities. So, when the Canaanites were participating in the above acts, they were merely imitating the perceived exploits of their FALSE PROPHETS for their false gods.

Then there is also another reason and it is related to Israel’s type of government. The nation was created as a Theocracy under the Mosaic covenant at Sinai with the true God as their Sovereign Ruler. Over the next four hundred years, Moses, Joshua, and a series of judges guided Israel as God’s chosen servant leader. Even under the monarchy, the various kings were themselves subject to God’s sovereign rule in what became a modified theocracy. As a result, the false prophet’s actions essentially amounted to the highest form of treason, which was a capital offence even in most modern human-government countries. How much more serious is this crime when committed against the true infinitely Holy God.

Then there is the one that I personally find the most acceptable. The teachings of those False Prophets was an act of MURDER and God said thou shalt not Murder.

You see, by leading people astray, the false prophets condemned their followers to an eternal death and separation from God in hell. Thus their actions were the same as committing spiritual murder. We could note here that Satan himself was the original false prophet. By giving a false message to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 (“Did God really say…”), he condemned all mankind to physical death, and all unbelievers to spiritual and eternal death.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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That is a false dichotomy.
It is not unit or truth... It is unity under the One We Serve.

Strive to understand our brothers who approach Him from a differing perspective.

This does not mean adopting a view with which one does not agree as much as making shared faith in the Center central to our message.

We can, and should discuss these things in love without branding our brothers as false teachers.

Siloam, I appreciate your attempt at explaining a different approach to God's Word. I also appreciate anyones different point of view.
However, I do not think that we are going to be able to agree on this as IMHO, when someone says something different than what the Word of God says, that is not acceptable to me and is not open for interpretation of who a false prophet is.

Now again, what I do is post the exact quotes that the people I speak about have made themselves. I do not make an opinion or say "what I think".
If that harms "Unity" then it harms untity becasue the Truth of God's Word is always more important than unity or politeness but in fact I love both of those things........but not at the expence of truth..

Allow me to give you an example #1, Robert Schuller said..........
"A person is in hell when he has lost his self-esteem.”

Source: Robert H. Schuller, Self-Esteem: The New Reformation (Dallas: Word Books, 1982), p. 167.

However the Bible says in Mark 9:47–48 that hell is a REAL PLACE (KJV 1900)
"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Do we accept that a statement that espouses the One we serve by completely changing the Word of God for "Unity". The thoughts of men who change the Word of God is a FALSE TEACHING no matter how you slice it my brother.

Example #2, the same man, Rober Schuller said one of the most balsphemous teachings ever uttered and that was that .....
"Christ’s death on the cross was for nothing more than protection against His perfect self-esteem from being turned into sinful pride."
Source: Robert H. Schuller, Self-Esteem: The New Reformation (Dallas: Word Books, 1982, page 75).

Since Jesus had no sin and no sin nature, how in the world could He have been turned in pride??????

According to Schuller, Jesus would not even tell us that we are miserable sinners.
Source: Robert H. Schuller, Self-Esteem: The New Reformation (Dallas: Word Books, 1982, page 47).

Is that what Jesus actually said?????Quite contrary, Jesus said, in Luke 5:32..........
“I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance”.

Rather than the cross sanctifying the ego trip, it is a testimony of man’s utter depravity and the horrible price that God paid to redeem fallen mankind.

Are you advocating that ....."We can, and should discuss these things in love without branding our brothers as false teachers."??????

My dear brother, at what actual point would you say we as born again Bible believers stand up for the Word of God?
Does Matthew 7:21-23 still apply to us today?

Matthw 7:21-23........
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
 
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Sep 3, 2009
12,745
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113
Florida
Look at the extreme "heat" both Dave Hunt and Dr MacArthur had from other Christians even when they exposed word of faith teachers and teachings!

Thnaks and Noted. No need to question Truth.....attack the messenger instead of the message.
 
Nov 18, 2020
133
129
43
60
Macomb Michigan
Siloam, I appreciate your attempt at explaining a different approach to God's Word. I also appreciate anyones different point of view.
However, I do not think that we are going to be able to agree on this as IMHO, when someone says something different than what the Word of God says, that is not acceptable to me and is not open for interpretation of who a false prophet is.

Now again, what I do is post the exact quotes that the people I speak about have made themselves. I do not make an opinion or say "what I think".
If that harms "Unity" then it harms untity becasue the Truth of God's Word is always more important than unity or politeness but in fact I love both of those things........but not at the expence of truth..

Allow me to give you an example #1, Robert Schuller said..........
"A person is in hell when he has lost his self-esteem.”

Source: Robert H. Schuller, Self-Esteem: The New Reformation (Dallas: Word Books, 1982), p. 167.

However the Bible says in Mark 9:47–48 that hell is a REAL PLACE (KJV 1900)
"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Do we accept that a statement that espouses the One we serve by completely changing the Word of God for "Unity". The thoughts of men who change the Word of God is a FALSE TEACHING no matter how you slice it my brother.

Example #2, the same man, Rober Schuller said one of the most balsphemous teachings ever uttered and that was that .....
"Christ’s death on the cross was for nothing more than protection against His perfect self-esteem from being turned into sinful pride."
Source: Robert H. Schuller, Self-Esteem: The New Reformation (Dallas: Word Books, 1982, page 75).

Since Jesus had no sin and no sin nature, how in the world could He have been turned in pride??????

According to Schuller, Jesus would not even tell us that we are miserable sinners.
Source: Robert H. Schuller, Self-Esteem: The New Reformation (Dallas: Word Books, 1982, page 47).

Is that what Jesus actually said?????Quite contrary, Jesus said, in Luke 5:32..........
“I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance”.

Rather than the cross sanctifying the ego trip, it is a testimony of man’s utter depravity and the horrible price that God paid to redeem fallen mankind.

Are you advocating that ....."We can, and should discuss these things in love without branding our brothers as false teachers."??????

My dear brother, at what actual point would you say we as born again Bible believers stand up for the Word of God?
Does Matthew 7:21-23 still apply to us today?

Matthw 7:21-23........
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Doctrines of demons are being allowed into local churches, like Trojam Horse, and the local body is either not biblical literate enough to expose it, or do not want to confront!
Again, not a baptist and a Charasmatic discussing gifts today, but outright rank heresies being allowed in!
 
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