Gal 3:10-14

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25 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming;[a] go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour[b] in which the Son of Man is coming.

All ten of the virgins were believers. The five wise virgins were "prepared" for the coming of the groom (that being Christ). Many would argue what the "being prepared" means exactly, I would assume that it means something along the lines of "the wise virgins not only believed but lived their faith", so they had faith and works to show. The foolish virgins believed and were also waiting but had not provided the necessary works to compliment their faith, in other words they had an empty faith. When they knew the groom had arrived they hurridly attempted to make up for their lack of preparedness but it was too late.
Note that this phrase ( ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’) is used in other parables in like circumstances.
I believe that if you will read the parabel carfully, you will see that the Scripture DO NOT SAY THAT ALL TEN WERE BELIEVERS. ALL were virgins. ALL carried lamps. ALL went out to meet the bridegroom. ALL waited for his coming.

5 were wise and 5 were foolish but it does not say that they were ALL believers.

IMO these 10 virgins represent Christianty today. Among the millions of church memebrs today, there is just as many or ,aybe even more who are "religionists". They profess Christ but do not POSSESS Christ. Like the 10 virgins, they are outwardly alike but inwardly they are very different.

In churches today, tthere are men and women who are faithful in being busy but have failed to be possed by the Holy Spirit of God. The oil in this parabel is the Holy Spirit. THAT is what seperates these 10 virgins. The 5 wise had the oil and 5 foolish did not.

It has nothing to do with works, or doing something to increase their faith.

The moment a sinner accepts Christ as Savior, the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in their heart. Evry believer is born of the Spirit.

John 3:3, 5........
"Except a man be born again.......born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven".

The moment we are born again (saved), the Holy Spirit moves in and stays with us. The believer is led by the Spirit and just as oil was necessary for the lamps of the virgins, so then the possession of the Holy Spirit a necessity for us if we are to enter the place where Jesus had gone to prepare for us.

So then, IMO the teaching here of the 10 virgins is that 5 were ready to see the Lord at his next coming and 5 were not.
5 were saved and 5 were NOT saved.
 
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28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

Jesus Christ will return Once!

There are not many Comings, Appearing's or Returns as others have tried to say.

He will return only once, and stay here to rule and reign from Jerusalem.


JLB
Not so my friend. Jesus is coming the next time in the clouds at the Rapture. He will not come to the earth but will come to remove the Church before the wrath of God falls on the earth and the un-believers.

Mark 13:32-37....
“But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Matthew 24:42-44,.......
“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." -Revelation 3:10

1 Thess. 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. (NIV)

1 Corinthians 15:51-52Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. (NIV)

Then He will come physically 7 years later at Armageddon and stand on the MT. of Olives when He come to put an end to sin and set up His Kingdom.
 

Glomung

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Major, if they weren't all believers they would not have been waiting for the Bridegroom in the first place.
 
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Glomung

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"or maybe they presumed they were believers, but actually were not"

You are playing with words.
The fact of the matter is that there are plenty who are believers, but either through laziness or sin have no desire to be obedient. Satan believes, he also hates.
That is why "believing" has no value whatsoever. Believing is accepting reality, which, unless a person is intentionally
blind, should be a no-brainer.
What God is looking for is those who will serve.
According to tradition, it was Satan's words "non serviam" (I will not serve) that got him tossed out.
 
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Major, if they weren't all believers they would not have been waiting for the Bridegroom in the first place.
Glo.........the church is full of those who presume that they are saved when in fact Jesus will say...........
"depart from me, I never knew you".

Glo, the parabel actually explains the place of Israel's "True" converts of the Tribulation Period in relation to the church.

The virgins are the attendants. The one bride of Christ is the church and John the Baptist is the best man (John 3:29) friend of the Bridegroom and the prepared virgins are the saved of the Tribulation Period.

The "foolish" are the un-prepared. They have no oil at all. False professions will save no one and only brings the final judgment of Christ upon the unsaved.

Because of there action or lack there of, the Lord responds to them in verse #12.........
"I know you not".
 

Banarenth

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I'm sorry, but I'm rolling this argument back. The purpose of the bickering has completely eluded me. I don't like doing this because it's too hard to do it in a fair way, but it is either this or I close the topic.
 

JLB

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"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." -Revelation 3:10
Just like He did with Noah!

Noah didn't leave the earth.

Jesus will return a second time!

There is no Pre-trib Rapture.

No where does God ever say He will Rapture His people away to heaven.

Jesus will return a second time, and remain here to reign and rule here on earth.


JLB
 

Glomung

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Have to agree with you JLB. A couple of years ago one of the elder members here,
Revlynn I believe, did a full analysis of the scriptures that support a "Rapture" and
to the last, each of them suggested that whatever it was would be post-Tribulation.
 
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Just like He did with Noah!

Noah didn't leave the earth.

Jesus will return a second time!

There is no Pre-trib Rapture.

No where does God ever say He will Rapture His people away to heaven.

Jesus will return a second time, and remain here to reign and rule here on earth.


JLB
"Noah didn't leave the earth."
Correct, but the Ark saved him from the wrath and Judgment of God on sinners.

"Jesus will return a second time!"
Absolutely correct!

"There is no Pre-trib Rapture."


How can we watch for the Lord's imminent and sudden return if He cannot return until after all the tragic events of the 7-year Tribulation period as taught in the book of Revelation? The only logical and workable conclusion is a Pretribulation Rapture, that is, the Rapture will take place BEFORE the Tribulation.

The Church will be removed from the earth BEFORE the appearing of the Antichrist (2nd Thessalonians 2:7,8). There isn't one verse in the entire Bible which indicates that the Church will go through the Tribulation period.

It is important to recognize that when Jesus returns to set up His Kingdom there is NO Rapture, no one is caught up into the air to be with the Lord. People who become Christians during the Tribulation Period will enter with their earthly bodies into the Millennium.

Proof of this is found in Isaiah 65:20-25, and in Zechariah 8:5 where children are mentioned playing during the Millennium. Those saved during the Tribulation will enter physically into the Millennial Kingdom. Where will these humans come from if the saints are ALL raptured and changed at the END of the Tribulation, a Postribulation Rapture? Obviously this cannot be.

Revelation 19:11 to 14 ............
"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

Here we read about ARMIES from Heaven, riding upon white horses, following Christ into the Battle of Armageddon. There is NO mention of a Rapture. There is NOTHING in 1st Corinthians 15:51-54 or 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18 about armies, or ten thousands of saints, coming to earth to war.

There is a well of information available about the Rapture and one I suggest is http://www.jesus-is-savior.com.
 
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Have to agree with you JLB. A couple of years ago one of the elder members here,
Revlynn I believe, did a full analysis of the scriptures that support a "Rapture" and
to the last, each of them suggested that whatever it was would be post-Tribulation.
I for "one" would have to disagree with the results of any Biblical analysis that rejected the Rapture.
 

Glomung

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You misread my post Major. Revlynn's point was that the "Rapture" would be post-Tribulation, not that it would not occur at all.
Personally, I have never found the notion of the Rapture particularly compelling, especially noting the history of the doctrine, but it matters little what folks think, there either will or will not be a "Rapture", time will tell.
If you are right, lots of folks will be pleasantly surprised.
 
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JLB

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How can we watch for the Lord's imminent and sudden return if He cannot return until after all the tragic events of the 7-year
Answer: Because there is no such scripture about the Lord's imminent return anywhere in Scripture.

That is one of several mindsets THAT IS TAUGHT TODAY, as your question indicates.

Again your answer is found in scripture.

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.


But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.


Now read 1 Thessalonian 4:13 - 5:4 as a complete idea.

Why would the Lord lay out the signs, that we are seeing coming to pass, that lead up to His return and tell us to watch so you would know the time?

Just to have man tell you the coming of the Lord in sudden and without warning. RIDICULOUS! TOTALLY RIDICULOUS!!!

THE LORD REVEALS HIS PLANS TO HIS PEOPLE!


JLB
 

Banarenth

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I can only remember one preterist that we had here, but I honestly can't remember who it was. I seem to remember that he was treated very unfairly.

Pre-tribulation Rapture is really not a "false doctrine". It may or may not be true (I have no personal opinion on this btw), but it isn't a "false doctrine". That term is getting thrown around WAY too often leading me to believe that there is a misunderstanding of what qualifies as a false doctrine. Since our beliefs regarding the order of events is fairly irrelevant to all things regarding Salvation (I guess unless you ARE a preterist or JW), I don't see the need to throw around accusations such as this. It implies that if others do not agree with your interpretation then they must not be saved. That is always the implication of terms such as this and I would consider the usage to be little more than bullying.
 
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Amen....Bana!

Too much like the "Orthodoxy Keystone Cops" around here

If folks can't share their spiritual opinions in a spiritual, gentlemanly manner, it ain't worth posting, IMO.

I don't think anyone here is qualified to "clear the Temple", but a sure heap of a lotta folks seem to think they are.
 
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Oops! I did a little editing per rule 3.2b just before you posted, Ban. The references to "false doctrine" were edited in all except the deleted post, so feel free to undelete the post if you wish.
 

Banarenth

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It's OK Rumely. I believe I will just keep it the way it is for now. Disrespect for authority and others will not be tolerated on this level. This is why we have rules to begin with.
 

JLB

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I can only remember one preterist that we had here, but I honestly can't remember who it was. I seem to remember that he was treated very unfairly.

Pre-tribulation Rapture is really not a "false doctrine". It may or may not be true (I have no personal opinion on this btw), but it isn't a "false doctrine". That term is getting thrown around WAY too often leading me to believe that there is a misunderstanding of what qualifies as a false doctrine. Since our beliefs regarding the order of events is fairly irrelevant to all things regarding Salvation (I guess unless you ARE a preterist or JW), I don't see the need to throw around accusations such as this. It implies that if others do not agree with your interpretation then they must not be saved. That is always the implication of terms such as this and I would consider the usage to be little more than bullying.

I am probably the biggest opposition to Preterism there is on any Christian Forum.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine is a False Doctrine plain and simple.

I would not have said it if it were not true.


JLB
 
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I am probably the biggest opposition to Preterism there is on any Christian Forum.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine is a False Doctrine plain and simple.

I would not have said it if it were not true.


JLB
No I'm the biggest opponent of preterism on this forum....See? I want even grace the name with a capital "P". Gee you've been here sucha short time....How could you possibly know??

I see no light in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine theory, but I will not call it a "doctrine" or use it as a hammer against a fellow Christian.

Oh,,,and btw the way...just because anyone here says something is true because they say it, well....I doubt anyone intentionally posts opinions they know are lies.