I've been harping on this for years. The Hebrew is clear, and yet some modern translators STILL can't get it right!
Get It Right! Murder is Wrong, Not Killing
- Thread starter Musicmaster
- Start date
What is legal killing?
As the video pointed out: Self defense, capital punishment the Lord gave to governments, and animals for food.
MM
Harping? With a harp?
I have never heard a harp in church.
I don't have time to watch a lot of videos. It's quicker for me to read.
Murder is killing someone deliberately...if you accidentally kill someone its not deemed as murder. Whatever, the point is someone dies/life is cut short. Jesus was murdered though people don't like to say. It was deliberate. Often it's not just one person involved in a murder it can be many. Apparently if its state sanctioned then it's ok.
I have never heard a harp in church.
I don't have time to watch a lot of videos. It's quicker for me to read.
Murder is killing someone deliberately...if you accidentally kill someone its not deemed as murder. Whatever, the point is someone dies/life is cut short. Jesus was murdered though people don't like to say. It was deliberate. Often it's not just one person involved in a murder it can be many. Apparently if its state sanctioned then it's ok.
I think this is the real issue.
Capital punishment was given by God for the protection of the population.
It preceded the Mosaic Law. Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man (Gen 9:6).
According to Genesis 9:6, capital punishment is based upon a belief in the sanctity of life.
God commanded capital punishment for murderers. Premeditated murder (or what the Old Testament described as “lying in wait”) was punishable by death.
A second offense punishable by death was involvement in the occult (Exod. 22; Lev. 20; Deut 18-19). This included sorcery, divination, acting as a medium, and sacrificing to false gods.
Third, capital punishment was to be used against perpetrators of sexual sins such as rape, incest, or homosexual practice.
Of course. What about state sanctioned war? I don't mean wars of defense but rather wars of aggression.
I'm surprised by this content.
In the O.T. it was the law 'basic'.
The N.T. doesn't disagree or contradict the O.T. but it speaks of a higher level. We are in the world but not of the world. We are saved by grace, let's act like it. Scripture says love your enemies, that is not a component of this world. Jesus turned the other cheek and told Peter to put away his sword.
In Christ no one has a right to take someone's life. We forfeit our rights looking to gain the everlasting prize that is not gained by rights.
Let government do what they are called to do but let us live in Christ and He in us. The Lord is in control of all things so let us not fear for the 'footsteps of the righteous are ordered and ALL things work together to the good' of the Christian.
In the O.T. it was the law 'basic'.
The N.T. doesn't disagree or contradict the O.T. but it speaks of a higher level. We are in the world but not of the world. We are saved by grace, let's act like it. Scripture says love your enemies, that is not a component of this world. Jesus turned the other cheek and told Peter to put away his sword.
In Christ no one has a right to take someone's life. We forfeit our rights looking to gain the everlasting prize that is not gained by rights.
Let government do what they are called to do but let us live in Christ and He in us. The Lord is in control of all things so let us not fear for the 'footsteps of the righteous are ordered and ALL things work together to the good' of the Christian.
ButterflyJones
Account Closed
Murder
- The killing of another person without justification or excuse, especially the crime of killing a person with malice aforethought or with recklessness manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life.
- An instance of such killing.
Capital Punishment is only murder if a person who was actually not guilty of the Capital crime was executed.
A murder of that nature isn't likely to be proven because the appeals investigation doesn't resume after they're dead.
I don't think VP is fair justice because of the chance of error.
Whereas a life without parole sentence gives the wrongly convicted a chance at freedom. While the guilty live in the closest thing to Hell on earth they'll know and for the rest of their life.
I am not sure that life in prison is "Hell on earth".
Having been involved in Prison ministry for many years, I can say that it is not a great time for those there. However, it is a long, long way from "hell on earth".
There are usually two or more TV sets in a common living space and in some prison, a TV in the cells.
Most all prisons have libraries from donate materials.
Prisoners have the right to own personal items such as stationery, cigarettes, cosmetics and watches.
Three meals a day.
A/C and Heating.
Is there rights restricted? YES! It is prison, it is supposed to be a place of punishment for crimes committed!
Please explain. What is "state sanctioned war". Isn't all war state sanctioned or else it is Civil War.
Then if a country starts a war and invades another country, then it is a defensive war for the one being invaded. I do not understand what you are saying.
There is no place in the New Testament that specifically says that capital punishment is right or wrong. It seemed clear that the New Testament does not denounce the idea of capital punishment but instead assumes the right of the state to use it.
Romans 13:1-4. ...........
“Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves."
(vs 4) .........
"But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.”
It seems clearly to me that the New Test. teaches that the state—civil government—has the God-ordained responsibility to enforce law and order, and to protect its citizens against evildoers. The word “sword” in this passage refers to capital punishment. God delegates duly constituted civil authority to execute the death penalty upon citizens who commit crimes worthy of death.
Matt. 5:17........
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Country A decides to invade country B. For example: Russia invades Ukraine. The soldiers from the invaded country are defending their land so their kills are classified as "self defense" but the invading soldiers have no such excuse so their kills logically become "murder". Of course the invading soldiers don't have the option to say no and must follow orders so how do we classify this?
Got it ! I understand that. Thanks.
I am still not sure that there is a "State Sanctioned War".
ButterflyJones
Account Closed
I can't speak to foreign prisons (or jail) conditions.
In America most prisons, inmate housing area, are not air conditioned.
In Texas, one of the hottest areas in summer in America, less than 1/4 of prisons have AC.
There is currently no federal requirement for temperatures inside of state jails and prisons.
Television in a cell is a privilege. A purchased one. It is not standard that every cell has a TV.
There is typically a common room that may have a TV. A TV.
Imagine that environment.
The smell in inmate housing is not great for obvious reasons. Especially without AC in summer.
Prisoners work the kitchen and make the inmate meals.
Any prisoner knows they're better off if they have money on the books so to afford food stuff and other items from the commissary. However, because there is no privacy in jails or prisons, no personal security, as in locks on a personal foot locker where one would store food, there is always the chance people will steal commissary items from one another.
And of course it is never silent in prison. And violence is a constant.
Cruel and unusual punishment: When states don’t provide air conditioning in prison
13 states in the hottest parts of the country lack universal A/C in their prisons. We explain the consequences.
www.prisonpolicy.org
I feeling "kill" is better. Attitude is being addressed. As in everything has to eliminated that stands in one's way. While murder
is a result of letting your ego get the better of you.
bye
State sanctioned was is war.
I'm still working through some parallels here.
If an individual "lies in wait" for another we call that murder but if a state attacks another state for its land or resources we call that war. Both result in deaths of individuals. The former is a sin but the latter is sanctioned because God placed our rulers above us and commanded we obey them. Am I correct in my understanding because I don't see it that way. Death is death and just because you're following orders doesn't make it any less dead.
A well thought out and excellent question. I am honored you would ask me. To be totally honest, I do not think I can answer your question. MURDER is sin! Killing in war because you are doing what your leaders tell you to do is not.
Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says -- “You shall not kill,” and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; = murder.”
I think we have to remember that God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations.
Also, God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder.
War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people, war is inevitable.
Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.
In a world filled with evil people, sometimes war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If Hitler had not been defeated by World War II, how many more millions would have been killed? If the American Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?
Now IF my leaders told me that we are going to War with Canada because we need their oil and I will have to kill men because of that reason, THEN I DO NOT GO. That to me is the wrong reason to go to War.
You are welcome.
Ah... yes! God ordered the Israelites to go to war. And the Bible says (or at least heavily implies) that God places the leaders of the various nations over us. So when our leaders order us to war are we to understand that God by proxy is ordering us? I assume so, and here is where I have difficulty: If I were a ruler and wanted to solidify my power, I would codify my legitimacy into the religion of the people. I would make it religious canon that God ordained me and I would make it a sin against God to disobey me. Now, I'm not saying that is what the ancient Israelites did, but it seems quite a coincidence...
I can't speak to foreign prisons (or jail) conditions.
In America most prisons, inmate housing area, are not air conditioned.
In Texas, one of the hottest areas in summer in America, less than 1/4 of prisons have AC.
There is currently no federal requirement for temperatures inside of state jails and prisons.
Television in a cell is a privilege. A purchased one. It is not standard that every cell has a TV.
There is typically a common room that may have a TV. A TV.
Imagine that environment.
The smell in inmate housing is not great for obvious reasons. Especially without AC in summer.
Prisoners work the kitchen and make the inmate meals.
Any prisoner knows they're better off if they have money on the books so to afford food stuff and other items from the commissary. However, because there is no privacy in jails or prisons, no personal security, as in locks on a personal foot locker where one would store food, there is always the chance people will steal commissary items from one another.
And of course it is never silent in prison. And violence is a constant.
Cruel and unusual punishment: When states don’t provide air conditioning in prison
13 states in the hottest parts of the country lack universal A/C in their prisons. We explain the consequences.
Don't you think that prisons are confinement facilities for those who’ve already been convicted of crimes. Prision was never meant to be a retreat or a holiday.
Some see prisons as punishment, even vengeance. Others see them as a means to keep the public safe from those who have already harmed others.
Unfortunately, a great number of people incarcerated are there because they are mentally ill and or drug dependent and cannot care for themselves.