Getting Angry When Others Disagree With Us

[blueskies]

“… the topics which may not be initiated, discussed or debated at CFS are:”

(2) Speaking in Tongues - (either Pentacostal, unknown, or foreign but known language)
This topic is off limits and is not permitted to be discussed here at CFS.

This topic has been mentioned twice now in this thread, let us find another way so we don’t stray into the weeds.

See:
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[LearningToLetGo]

So, one reason different people have different interpretations of the Bible is simply that some do not listen to the Teacher—the Holy Spirit.

I have great respect for your knowledge, Major but I don't like where this is going.

Think about what you are suggesting here. This is the kind of rhetoric that can spur some people into dangerous action.

Truth is, we are all babes in Christ. We need to stop assuming that we are correct and others are wrong. Instead, we must look to whether we and others are operating in good faith. Two parties, both acting in good faith, can read the same words and sometimes come to differing conclusions. That's one of the frustrating truths of life, and Bible study is no exception. When that happens we need to resist the urge to condemn and instead shake the dust from our proverbial sandals.

 

[Major]

I have great respect for your knowledge, Major but I don't like where this is going.

Think about what you are suggesting here. This is the kind of rhetoric that can spur some people into dangerous action.

Truth is, we are all babes in Christ. We need to stop assuming that we are correct and others are wrong. Instead, we must look to whether we and others are operating in good faith. Two parties, both acting in good faith, can read the same words and sometimes come to differing conclusions. That's one of the frustrating truths of life, and Bible study is no exception. When that happens we need to resist the urge to condemn and instead shake the dust from our proverbial sandals.

I appreciate your opinion brother. I was not taking the conversation anywhere at all and I certainly am not suggesting anything dangerous. I think maybe if you investigate what I actually said you see that it is rather an accepted opinion of what has troubled the church for many years. .........."Getting angry when others disagree with us"!

You may not agree and that is perfectly OK. However, thousands of church's have split over the "Anger" of a few in a church usually over a Scripture doctrine that they just do not understand or like!

Now allow me to ask you if you will agree with the Scripture that says there is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” in Ephesians 4:5?

Do YOU think this passage emphasizes the unity that should exist in the body of Christ as we are indwelt by “one Spirit”???

In in chapter 4 verse 3, Paul makes an appeal to humility, meekness, patience, and love—all of which are necessary to preserve unity.

Then according to 1 Corinthians 2:10-13, the Holy Spirit knows the mind of God in verse 11, which He reveals in verse 10 and teaches us in verse 13 to those whom He indwells. This activity of the Holy Spirit is called illumination.

Isn't exactly what I posted?????

I am not being argumentative in any way and you are entitled to your opinion, I just do not understand how quoting the Bible Scriptures of what we are told by God to do is that we follow the leading of the Holy Spirit is dangereous retoric?

 

[Major]

I agree. For me, it is scripture first and foremost.

I agree totally! What did I post that was NOT Scripture???

 

[Major]

I agree. For me, it is scripture first and foremost.

Robin, may I say to you that On the essentials, the Bible is abundantly clear. There is nothing ambiguous about the deity of Christ, the reality of heaven and hell, and salvation by grace through faith.

On some issues of less importance, however, the teaching of Scripture is less clear, and this naturally leads to different interpretations. That has been the case for at least 2000 years.

For example, we have no direct biblical command governing the frequency of communion or the style of music to use. Honest, sincere Christians can have differing interpretations of the passages concerning these peripheral issues but there is no reason that can be given to argue or be disagreeable over these issues.

The important thing is to be dogmatic where Scripture is and to avoid being dogmatic where Scripture is not which is exactly what I do and did.

Churches should strive to follow the model of the early church in Jerusalem: Acts 2:42......
“They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer”.

There was unity in the early church because they were steadfast in the apostles’ doctrine. There will be unity in the church again when we get back to the apostles’ doctrine and forego the other doctrines, fads, and gimmicks that have crept in.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Now allow me to ask you if you will agree with the Scripture that says there is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” in Ephesians 4:5?

Do YOU think this passage emphasizes the unity that should exist in the body of Christ as we are indwelt by “one Spirit”???

I agree with this.

I am not being argumentative in any way and you are entitled to your opinion, I just do not understand how quoting the Bible Scriptures of what we are told by God to do is that we follow the leading of the Holy Spirit is dangereous retoric?

I know you are sincere and loving. Of that there is no doubt.

My reference to "dangerous" rhetoric was in relation to this: "one reason different people have different interpretations of the Bible is simply that some do not listen to the Teacher—the Holy Spirit."

The reason I consider this bad form is because it outright states that some Christians have the Holy Spirit while others do not. It sets up an inherent hierarchy and calls some Christians authentic and others fake. The implication here is that fake Christians are to be shunned or worse. History shows us all too well how such dynamics end -- with bloodshed.

I am sure this is not what you meant to say, but it's how I read it, and if I can read it that way so can others. It's for this reason that I urge caution. We must always teach each other -- reprove when necessary -- with love.



Jason

 

[Major]

I agree with this.


I know you are sincere and loving. Of that there is no doubt.

My reference to "dangerous" rhetoric was in relation to this: "one reason different people have different interpretations of the Bible is simply that some do not listen to the Teacher—the Holy Spirit."

The reason I consider this bad form is because it outright states that some Christians have the Holy Spirit while others do not. It sets up an inherent hierarchy and calls some Christians authentic and others fake. The implication here is that fake Christians are to be shunned or worse. History shows us all too well how such dynamics end -- with bloodshed.

I am sure this is not what you meant to say, but it's how I read it, and if I can read it that way so can others. It's for this reason that I urge caution. We must always teach each other -- reprove when necessary -- with love.



Jason

Thank you for your kind words!!!!

I actually think you misunderstood my premise.

I was coming from the direction of the words from the Lord Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23.......
"“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

So from the lips of God we can see that there are those who SAY that they are Christians but are NOT! That fact my dear brother then leads those men to reject the written Word of God and or change it to make it say what they want it to say!

Dr. Grahm once said .........."The largest missionary field in the world is the Church auditorium"!
He also said at one time.."I believe that only 25 % of the church members are truely born again"!

So then......what I am saying is that Jesus was correct! Those who are NOT saved, tend to alter or distort the Word of God becuase they do not have the Holy Spirit in them to teach them.

 

[crossnote]

So from the lips of God we can see that there are those who SAY that they are Christians but are NOT! That fact my dear brother then leads those men to reject the written Word of God and or change it to make it say what they want it to say!

Dr. Grahm once said .........."The largest missionary field in the world is the Church auditorium"!
He also said at one time.."I believe that only 25 % of the church members are truely born again"!

So then......what I am saying is that Jesus was correct! Those who are NOT saved, tend to alter or distort the Word of God becuase they do not have the Holy Spirit in them to teach them.

Then there is this...

Matthew 13:24-26
Another parable set he before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man that sowed good seed in his field: [25] but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares also among the wheat, and went away. [26] But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

 

[Major]

Then there is this...

Matthew 13:24-26
Another parable set he before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man that sowed good seed in his field: [25] but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares also among the wheat, and went away. [26] But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

Yes sir. If we read all the context on this parsbel we see that Jesus told His listeners that only 1/4th of the sown seed ever got into the ground.

The other 3/4th never did produce anything because he folks who heard the Word did not respond to it. It plain english....they were not saved!

Of the people who heard.......only 1/4th were truely saved and THAT is what Dr. Graham used as his thesis.

As a minister of the gospel and after speaking with many of my friends, we agree completely with that figure!

So as you can see......It is not what I said but what God said and I just repeated it.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

I actually think you misunderstood my premise.

I was coming from the direction of the words from the Lord Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23.......
"“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

So from the lips of God we can see that there are those who SAY that they are Christians but are NOT! That fact my dear brother then leads those men to reject the written Word of God and or change it to make it say what they want it to say!

Thank you for clarifying. I admit the above verse is difficult to understand, especially when put in light of Mark 9.

38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name,[a] and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. 40 For the one who is not against us is for us. 41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward. (Mark 9:38-41)

Here we have a good example of how scripture can be confusing. In Matthew, Jesus says that many who cast out demons in his name will be rejected at the end, yet Mark says that one who does mighty works in his name will by no means lose his reward.

How are we to make sense of this? They appear to say completely opposite things.

 

[crossnote]

38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name,[a] and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. 40 For the one who is not against us is for us. 41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward. (Mark 9:38-41)

Here we have a good example of how scripture can be confusing. In Matthew, Jesus says that many who cast out demons in his name will be rejected at the end, yet Mark says that one who does mighty works in his name will by no means lose his reward.

Mt 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

It looks like in Matthew 7 they were appealing to their own works instead of Christ's Work, ( i.e. prophesying,driving out demons, performing many miracles in Christ's name, etc.) In Mark 9 it's yet to be seen if their hope was in Christ through the Gospel (sinlessness, death, & resurrection) for their sins.

 

[Major]

Thank you for clarifying. I admit the above verse is difficult to understand, especially when put in light of Mark 9.

38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name,[a] and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. 40 For the one who is not against us is for us. 41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward. (Mark 9:38-41)

Here we have a good example of how scripture can be confusing. In Matthew, Jesus says that many who cast out demons in his name will be rejected at the end, yet Mark says that one who does mighty works in his name will by no means lose his reward.

How are we to make sense of this? They appear to say completely opposite things.

I will agree that this Scripture seems like it has broken logic. But I have learned a very long time ago that these kinds of problems are given to us by the Holy Spirit to prompt us to dig deeper for its meaning.

So, when we dig deeper we see "contextually" that this part of Scripture is part of the longer conversation about where individuals fit in to Jesus' kingdom. The disciples assume they are first and will have the most authority. As a result, they argue to see where they rank with respect to each other. What we see then is Pride.

Jesus then goes on to explain that leaders are first and foremost servants. They should be more concerned about welcoming the powerless, like children, than displaying their own power.

So the disciples ask about someone who publicly appears to be in their group but isn't. Jesus says they're still being too exclusionary. If this man has faith enough to exorcise demons in Jesus' name, he's not a threat to the kingdom, even if he may be a threat to the disciples' egos .

John is also telling in his wording, "he was not following us." There is no "us" to follow: there is only Christ.

Paul talks about this when he chastises the Corinthians for claiming to follow a human leader—Apollos or Peter or himself in1 Corinthians 1:12. Paul points out that such thinking leads to ungodly tribalism when, really, they are all servants of the Lord in1 Corinthians 3:3–5. The fact that this man was, apparently, successful where the disciples themselves had recently failed would have also been a blow to their pride. That then seems to the root of all mens problems!!!

How often do we discourage someone who has success where we failed? Especially if they're not in our established system?
The disciples' attitude is very close to that of the scribes and Pharisees who reject Jesus not because He works against God but because He isn't in their exclusive club which is seen in Mark 3:22.

Thanks for asking brother. Actually, it was a really great and inciteful question!

 

[LearningToLetGo]

So the disciples ask about someone who publicly appears to be in their group but isn't. Jesus says they're still being too exclusionary. If this man has faith enough to exorcise demons in Jesus' name, he's not a threat to the kingdom, even if he may be a threat to the disciples' egos .

This is a good point, but how is this different than what we read in Matthew? I accept that in Mark, Jesus was making a specific point to the Apostles about their ego but that does not change the fact that people who did not know Jesus except from afar and by name only were still saved, while other people who may or may not have known Jesus the same way were told to pound dirt.

 

[crossnote]

I suppose in a nutshell, it is about who is the Lord of our life.

That pretty much sums it up, but I still stand by my words regarding Mt 7:21-23

"in Matthew 7 they were appealing to their own works instead of Christ's Work, ( i.e. prophesying,driving out demons, performing many miracles in Christ's name, etc.)" G.Q. notwithstanding...and remember these in Mt 7:22 prophesied (not just did mighty signs).

Look at Galatians 1:8-9

Galatians 1:8-9 ESV
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. [9] As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

It doesn't take the power of a demon just it's deception. A wrong Gospel (in this case, proclaiming an addition of our works to what Christ has done) will win us a pass into the eternal slammer.

 

[Lanolin]

I am not sure what the issue here is really.
But there might be some who take the Lords name in vain, and sadly some professed christians DO belong to cults that preach a false gospel - though we need to test the spirits and use discernment.

However I haven't really noticed anything awry on here recently to cause concern, though I am not here often enough policing each and every thread as a mod.

I don't think we need to be angry because we all go to different churches and belong to different congregations and there WILL be differences.
Sometimes the Holy Spirit will give one gift to one person and a different gift to another, we don't all have the same gifts. There are divers (different) gifts.

I think it's God's way of spreading the gospel just as when God mixed up the languages at the tower of Babel and made everyone scatter. He did this so that people would spread out instead of being just all in one place. He can bring people together again too.

I think it would be weird of everyone on the planet just spoke ONE language, wouldn't you? And the animals spoke in our language too lol
I mean it would probably be great in getting stuff done, but there would just be no variety if you know what I mean.

 

[Major]

This is a good point, but how is this different than what we read in Matthew? I accept that in Mark, Jesus was making a specific point to the Apostles about their ego but that does not change the fact that people who did not know Jesus except from afar and by name only were still saved, while other people who may or may not have known Jesus the same way were told to pound dirt

I do not think that is what the Scripture in question says. The Scriptures says.........
" In Matthew, Jesus says that many who cast out demons in his name will be rejected at the end, yet Mark says that one who does mighty works in his name will by no means lose his reward."

It seems to me that the Scriptures do not actually say what you are implying when You stated..........
"......... people who did not know Jesus except from afar and by name only were still saved, while other people who may or may not have known Jesus the same way were told to pound dirt."

Now, How do you explain that there were people who "did not know Jesus except by name were in fact saved"??? How is that possible?

It still comes down to the fact that Jesus said that not all who say that they are born again are in fact born again.

 

[Major]

People who come to Jesus in faith believing are saved, whether from afar, as we are, or in the flesh, as some lucky people were back then.

But whether near or far, it is what is in the heart of the believer that is the deciding factor, not location.
.

Location is not what is in view brother. What is the deciding factor is "Authenticity". Do those who say that they are saved, actually saved.

That is what Jesus was talking about and the answer He gave is NO!

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Now, How do you explain that there were people who "did not know Jesus except by name were in fact saved"??? How is that possible?

By this I mean people who did not know Jesus in the flesh while he walked the Earth. This obviously applies to you, me, and everyone except the few who personally witnessed him from the time of his birth until he ascended.

 

[Major]

Would that include cessationists?

I believe Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.
.

That is a topic I would be glad to discuss with you. However, it is not the subject of the thread. Please start your thread and I will be glad to join in.

This was about those who say they were Christians and Jesus said that they were not.

I agree 100 %. Jesus is always the same, but the methods He uses change from time to time.

 

[Major]

By this I mean people who did not know Jesus in the flesh while he walked the Earth. This obviously applies to you, me, and everyone except the few who personally witnessed him from the time of his birth until he ascended.

OK.

What Jesus said was that there were those people who said that they accepted Him as Messiah and said that they were Christians, but were not saved at all.

"Many will say Lord, Lord......But I say depart from me, I never knew you". This had to do with faith not location or time element. That is what I meant.