God is Love, Love keeps no records of wrongs, and the Judgment

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Dusty

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I also have to say that the churches have sugar coated a lot of the gospel to their liking to entice people in with their nice programs , music and otherclubs and entertainment and I have even heard of some churches that have a coffee shop and restuarant right in the foyer .

I come from an old time religion type where the whole Bible was preached and people would squirm in their seats cause that paster talked about Hell fire and brimstone and was not afraid to preach it . It takes a Holy Ghost filled pastor to preach the whole Bible and there are many passages that deal with Hell and Jesus preached more about Hell than He did heaven

Why did someone as good and loving as Christ spend so much time warning us about "the fire that shall never be quenched" -- a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth"? Why did He talk more about the fires of hell than about the joys of heaven?

The subject of hell is so sobering that many are more comfortable ignoring it. That's the church of today the feel good tickle my ears kind of churches.

I am not bragging but am blessed to be apart of a church that believes in and practices the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues , where people are now coming to the alters hungering and thirsting for more of God and His gifts . We need more churches to teach the truth about Hell even if some people turn away .

Why is there so much sin and hypocrasy in church ? I'll tell you why cause they are happy to listen and not dig into the Word and find out for themselves.

The Bible describes hell as a place of utter darkness … also as a lake of fire that burns day and night forever. Whether this is literal or figurative we do not know. What we do know is that Jesus described hell as a place of eternal torment. It is a place that was prepared for the devil and his fallen angels/demons—a place to where those who have never received forgiveness for their sins will be banned forever. It's not that God sends us to hell but that we send ourselves there when we don't heed God's warning and receive his forgiveness for all our sins and his gift of eternal life.
 

Dusty

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Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 16:23
In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

James 3:6
The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
 
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What we do know is that Jesus described hell as a place of eternal torment. It is a place that was prepared for the devil and his fallen angels/demons—a place to where those who have never received forgiveness for their sins will be banned forever. It's not that God sends us to hell but that we send ourselves there when we don't heed God's warning and receive his forgiveness for all our sins and his gift of eternal life.
Yes they send themselves there by not recieving Jesus.They are already on their way there and we can tell them how to avoid it. But its sad many won't listen because they find the truth too hard to deal with, so refuse to think about it and procrastinate too long.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
 

Dusty

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Yes they send themselves there by not recieving Jesus.They are already on their way there and we can tell them how to avoid it. But its sad many won't listen because they find the truth too hard to deal with, so refuse to think about it and procrastinate too long.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
And that is the problem with society today . They only want to hear the good parts and want to omit the truth

:Listen to this message from David Wilkerson " Hell what is it like ? "

Hell, What Is It Like? by David Wilkerson - SermonIndex.net audio sermons
 

Michael Collum

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An interesting thing i noticed when reading the gospels was that parallel passages have the imagery of fiery torment in one . and blackness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth in the other . seem to be used synonymously . but perhaps there is a distinction . did anyone else notice this?
 

Michael Collum

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Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Thank you Dusty .

Isaiah 65:17
"Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind."

Any mention of the lake of fire after the New Heaven and the New Earth is revealed?
 
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Michael the new heaven and new earth is for those who know Jesus so there is no need to mentioned it again since we will live in happiness forever. But the lake of fire will still exist forever and ever for those who are in that place.

GodSpeaks said:
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 

Michael Collum

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Michael the new heaven and new earth is for those who know Jesus so there is no need to mentioned it again since we will live in happiness forever. But the lake of fire will still exist forever and ever for those who are in that place.
That doesn't explain to me this passage .

but a verse in Revelation 21 answers both my question (where is the lake of fire mentioned after the new heaven and the new earth?) and adds some questions for the lake of fire being redemptive school also .

Rev 21
8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Because it is written: "Love believes all things" and "Love rejoices in the truth" then i'm very interested in the conversations that happen . because in those we see that different perspectives can come up from anywhere each using biblical evidence and even experience as it is written "judgment begins with the house of God"

so really all these conversations are meant to edify one another . and not come to a final conclusion IMHO as it is also written:

"may God be true and every man a liar"

we may think we will know what happens . but God always hides a few things that only become apparent as the event spoken of becomes closer .

it always good to be humble in these matters because the very premise by which we interpret the bible . may in the end be completely unspiritual and unbiblical to the very core .

in the end . we can come to a safest bet . but that's all it is . western rationalism did not write the bible . therefore, it is entirely possible whole concepts are missed by virtue of looking at it with a way of thinking that it was never intended to be interpreted with .

that being said . i appreciate all the conversation and strong views posted on this thread .

it has enriched me . thank you . i look forward to reading more .
 
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Hi GodSpeaks,

Sherman,
I found it interesting how you explained Remedial Judgment being in a corrective sense dealing with sins and wrong ways. And I agree God's purifying fire will burn up the wood, hay and stubble in our lives.

But I'll have to disagree about the doctrine of Hell. It's not just figurative. Its a literal, real place for those who reject Jesus Christ who will suffer for eternity. There are only two places to be and those who want nothing to do with Jesus will not be in heaven. I believe Jesus spoke of Hell more than He did heaven.
Yes, this is where we'll disagree. As noted in a previous post, not one word in the Hebrew or Greek text of scripture should be interpreted as Hell, not Sheol, Gehenna, Hades, or Tartaroo.

Mark 9:47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Note that Jesus is speaking of the fires of Gehenna, literally Jerusalem's trash dump where trash was burnt up and decaying flesh was consumed by maggots. Gehenna was a common theological metaphor of the Pharisees that spoke of purgation in the after-life for most of humanity. The Pharisees aregued over what would happen to the especially wicked, whether or not they would be consumed after 12 months or continue to suffer indefinitely. For most people though, Gehenna would better be understood as Purgatory. Also notice that vs. 49 says that we shall all be salted, or purified by this fire. This strongly implies that Jesus is speaking of purification in the afterlife (Purgatory), not unending torment (Hell).

Revelation 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
As noted in the previous post, fire and brimstone were both used in purification. In fact, brimstone was burnt as incense for both spiritual purification and physical healing. Thus, to me the metaphor of the lake of fire speaks of purification, not Hell.

If Hell was true, then surely it would be presented repeatedly and clearly in scripture. But as noted, the concept of Hell is not even spoken of in scripture, though there certainly were words, especially in Greek, that could have conveyed such plainly IF there were a Hell.

Scripture says that God is the savior of ALL humanity, especially (not only) we who believe. 1 Tim. 4:10
 

Dusty

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I am not here to dispute but I must say that I agree to disagree with what you have said Sherman becsue of the fact as I said that Jesus taught more about Hell while he was on earth that heaven and why do you think that was ? Because He wanted us to be saved and be with Him forever. There is no in between such as purgatory . It is black and white .... heaven or Hell . No matter how you put it . Here are some verses to ponder and I will leave you with the story about the rich man who wanted Lasarus to cool his tongue ... Where was he ?

For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of God.” -Matthew 5:20

“...but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell-fire.” -Matthew 5:22

“Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” -Matthew 7:14

“Every tree that beareth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” -Matthew 7:19

“But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 8:12

“He that findeth his life shall lose it; and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.” -Matthew 10:39

“Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not.” -Matthew 11:20

“And thou Capernaum which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell.” -Matthew 11:23

“But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gommorah in the day of judgement, then for thee.” -Matthew 11:24

“He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth abroad.” -Matthew 12:30

“But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement.” -Matthew 12:36

“...evil and adulterous generation.” -Matthew 12:39

“Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.” -Matthew 12:45

“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 13:42

“And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 13:50

“Ye hypocrites...” -Matthew 15:7

“...wicked and adulterous generation.” -Matthew 16:4

“For what is a man profited if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” -Matthew 16:26

“O faithless and perverse generation.” -Matthew 17:17

“...ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” -Matthew 18:3

“...it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.” -Matthew 18:8

“...be cast into hell fire.” -Matthew 18:9

“...a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.” -Matthew 19:23

“...for many are called but few chosen.” -Matthew 20:16

“...the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.” -Matthew 21:31

“Cast him into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 22:13

“...but few are chosen.” -Matthew 22:14

“...Ye do err, not knowing not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.” -Matthew 22:29

“For ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.” -Matthew 23:13

“Ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.” -Matthew 23:15

“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” -Matthew 23:33

“...there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 24:51

“...I know you not.” -Matthew 25:12

“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 25:30

“Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” -Matthew 25:41

“...into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” -Matthew 25:46

At this point I cannot say any more but will exit from this thread.... Thanks and God Bless.
 
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Sherman,
You really don't believe that those who are not saved will not go to hell? Or if they did you really don't believe they would be tormented in hell forever? That's Biblical and are basic Christian beliefs.
 
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There will be both a new heaven and a new earth.

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


It won't just be that the earth is like heaven.
 
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If heaven is gonna be on earth one day..why are you saying that there will be a heaven and earth?? this don't make any sense.

Read it again. Some people think earth will be perfect so it will be LIKE heaven, but they don't think there will be another place called heaven. That's not true.



Read the verse I posted. There will be heaven AND earth. Heaven will come down toward the earth but heaven will be suspended just above the earth.
 

Michael Collum

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Godspeaks, i think Sherman is saying that the concept of Hell was a fictitious doctrine based on a number of Pagan myths made up by Dante and pasted onto the KJV version of the scriptures but is not representative of any of the three words used for Hell . so i think it's just a matter of lense .

Precious Puppy, Sure heaven will be on earth . just read Revelation 20:1-7 . in the same way Home is where the heart is .. Heaven is where Jesus is present . so in a way, we bring a little bit of Heaven to Earth each day also . through Him indwelling us .
 

Michael Collum

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Godspeaks, i know technically, the sky is the heaven and the heaven is the atmosphere . and there is a heaven above the heaven as the Psalms also affirm and the creation account alludes to . but there is also a figurative meaning of Heaven also and i think this is what is referred to in Heaven (meaning that place where God is) being on Earth as it is written at the end of Ezekiel "the name of the city will be 'God is there'"

Love bless and keep all i'm off for a bit .
 

Dusty

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If heaven is gonna be on earth one day..why are you saying that there will be a heaven and earth?? this don't make any sense.
I really don't think any one knows exactly as there are so many grey areas . It does say that there will be a new heaven and new earth . Jesus is coming to reign with us and it is my belief that heaven will be here on earth and be like it was in the time of Adam and Eve ..... perfect .


2 Peter 3:13

13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

Revelation 21

The New Jerusalem

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
 
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