God is Love, Love keeps no records of wrongs, and the Judgment

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Godspeaks, i think Sherman is saying that the concept of Hell was a fictitious doctrine based on a number of Pagan myths made up by Dante and pasted onto the KJV version of the scriptures but is not representative of any of the three words used for Hell . so i think it's just a matter of lense .

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Michael
You may find all of this interesting but actually its very dangerous to think hell is not real. Don't ever let anyone persuade you to think hell is fictional. Its a real literal place for those who do not know God who will suffer there forever.
 

Michael Collum

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Hell still appears to be an over simplification .

i know there's a lake of fire . and the protestant assumptions when interpreting the scriptures don't always have the best track record when it comes to fruit produced overall . so i'm still living in these questions . i don't actually need to come to a conclusion about it because i'm more focused on not being hurt by the second death ;)

i still have this question: so if the bride is not revealed until after the judgment . and the Spirit and the Bride say come .. to all who will and receive the water of life and drink freely . if the Bride is resurrected . and the Spirit is the Spirit of God .. then hmm who are they saying "come" to? hmm hmm hmm . i like these questions .
 

Michael Collum

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To some yes, it appears to be that way.
Just because it hasn't been done too often . on a couple levels I'm interested in what kind of conclusions can be made when bibles are translated without the word hell and representational words of what the words actually mean instead .

maybe i'll try that next time . but def not tonight . def not in the right frame of mind .
 
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You can say that again.

I would have to agree w/ GS on this. It is indeed, very, very dangerous. There is a purpose for hell. There is a need for a hell. Hell makes sense.
Yes it does. God is loving but He is also just. It wouldn't be right or fair to not punish the unbelievers who hate and mock Him
 

Michael Collum

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I recall some thinker said .. it is not an incredible thing that so few are saved .. but that anyone is saved . i think that's what i was getting at . who knows why things work the way they work . i still think .. hmm .. maybe the books being opened .. really are the hearts of people .
 

Dusty

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Michael
You may find all of this interesting but actually its very dangerous to think hell is not real. Don't ever let anyone persuade you to think hell is fictional. Its a real literal place for those who do not know God who will suffer there forever.

Michael . the fact of the matter is that Sherman said the Bible is being translated into better English is some times a hindrance cause the King James Version is the closest in the English language and the others like a lot of churches want to embrace a more modern watered down version to tickle the ears of the pew warmers who like to sit under nice sermons. These kind of sermons draw the weak who just want to be called Christians but do not want to live the life or submit themselves to Christ and take up their cross and follow Him . They want to follow from a distance.

Don't kid yourself .... Hell is a real place and Jesus would not have talked so much about it if it were not real .

Back when Hell was preached in the church the Christians were hungering and thirsting for more of God , prayed more , loved and were concerned about the church members , shared more , cared more and I could go on but they exhibited the fruit of the spirit and were real Christians .

I am sorry to say I do not agree with you Sherman and you have said your case and are now just repeating the same over and over and you are intitiled to your opinion and I am entitiled to mine . I have submitted ample scriptures to support my view but you have only submitted man's theory but I believe the Bible and it is the Truth and the Truth sets me free .

I don't think at this point there is anything else to discuss as every one has had their say ... Thank you and God Bless .
 
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This proves people will be there punished forever so all are not saved.

Matt. 5:22, "whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."

Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Rev. 14:9-11, "And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
 

Dusty

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I am not here to dispute but I must say that I agree to disagree with what you have said Sherman because of the fact as I said that Jesus taught more about Hell while he was on earth that heaven and why do you think that was ? Because He wanted us to be saved and be with Him forever. There is no in between such as purgatory . It is black and white .... heaven or Hell . No matter how you put it . Here are some verses to ponder and I will leave you with the story about the rich man who wanted Lasarus to cool his tongue ... Where was he ?

For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of God.” -Matthew 5:20

“...but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell-fire.” -Matthew 5:22

“Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” -Matthew 7:14

“Every tree that beareth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” -Matthew 7:19

“But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 8:12

“He that findeth his life shall lose it; and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.” -Matthew 10:39

“Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not.” -Matthew 11:20

“And thou Capernaum which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell.” -Matthew 11:23

“But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gommorah in the day of judgement, then for thee.” -Matthew 11:24

“He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth abroad.” -Matthew 12:30

“But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement.” -Matthew 12:36

“...evil and adulterous generation.” -Matthew 12:39

“Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.” -Matthew 12:45

“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 13:42

“And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 13:50

“Ye hypocrites...” -Matthew 15:7

“...wicked and adulterous generation.” -Matthew 16:4

“For what is a man profited if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” -Matthew 16:26

“O faithless and perverse generation.” -Matthew 17:17

“...ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” -Matthew 18:3

“...it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.” -Matthew 18:8

“...be cast into hell fire.” -Matthew 18:9

“...a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.” -Matthew 19:23

“...for many are called but few chosen.” -Matthew 20:16

“...the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.” -Matthew 21:31

“Cast him into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 22:13

“...but few are chosen.” -Matthew 22:14

“...Ye do err, not knowing not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.” -Matthew 22:29

“For ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.” -Matthew 23:13

“Ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.” -Matthew 23:15

“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” -Matthew 23:33

“...there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 24:51

“...I know you not.” -Matthew 25:12

“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” -Matthew 25:30

“Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” -Matthew 25:41

“...into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” -Matthew 25:46

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There are enough verses here to support my answer . I believe the Bible as the inspired Word of God .
 

Michael Collum

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no need to prove it . and besides . i was just exploring another concept . i already studied the protestant interpretive apparatus to death previously . no need to have the last word anyway . this is friendly forum . so no need to feel the need to express some kind of pet doctrine out of compulsion either . the bible says many things but this conversation is beginning to look suspiciously like a debate . since there are other aspects of the doctrine of judgment the conversation can shift to those if you guys are game and let other people contribute also .

but maybe at another time Sherman and i can have a mature conversation without interruption to discuss what is scriptural from the standpoint of no hell but some other three names . and see what comes from that .. but probly in PMs as i know how it is to be a protestant . feeling the compulsion to tell everyone who doesn't agree with my interpretive method is wrong . and there can be no possible other way of interpreting the bible .. nope not at all . i know all about that .. but been there .. done that .. so who's game for sanctification and the judgment?
 

Dusty

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no need to prove it . and besides . i was just exploring another concept . i already studied the protestant interpretive apparatus to death previously . no need to have the last word anyway . this is friendly forum . so no need to feel the need to express some kind of pet doctrine out of compulsion either . the bible says many things but this conversation is beginning to look suspiciously like a debate . since there are other aspects of the doctrine of judgment the conversation can shift to those if you guys are game and let other people contribute also .

but maybe at another time Sherman and i can have a mature conversation without interruption to discuss what is scriptural from the standpoint of no hell but some other three names . and see what comes from that .. but probly in PMs as i know how it is to be a protestant . feeling the compulsion to tell everyone who doesn't agree with my interpretive method is wrong . and there can be no possible other way of interpreting the bible .. nope not at all . i know all about that .. but been there .. done that .. so who's game for sanctification and the judgment?
Ok Michael .... I really think it is time to rap this all up and I am not here to prove anything other than what the Word of God says and maybe it is better if you and Sherman discuss this by pm . This is not a "pet doctrine ' ... this is reality .

I think this thread needs to close.
 

Michael Collum

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So it says that Judgment begins with the house of God in one of Peter's letters .

So how does the judgment act as a redemptive force in the life of believers?

How does our choice to show mercy to other people affect this part of our life in Jesus Christ?
 
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So it says that Judgment begins with the house of God in one of Peter's letters .
Yes, and Peter was referring to the members of the church because that is the house of God:

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
1 Tim 3:15

So how does the judgment act as a redemptive force in the life of believers?
It acts as chastening tool:

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons

Heb 12:4-8

And the purpose of that is so that we will not be condemned together w/ the world.

But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world
1 Cor 11:32

How does our choice to show mercy to other people affect this part of our life in Jesus Christ?
It has a very positive effect on our lives.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy
Mat 5:7
 

godbe4me

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