Hebrews 6:6 does not teach a loss of Salvation.
- Thread starter Aenon
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BUT the Bible does not declare Paul was talking ONLY about spiritual baptism when He used the word "baptism". I am trying to get DOK to declare by what Biblical AUTHORITY does he make this claim and by what Biblical authority does he claim that while the other Apostles were supposedly preaching that Jews needed water baptism, Paul is supposed to have preached that the gentiles did not? Also by what biblical authority does he claim that the other Apostles preached the necessity to observe Judaic laws and customs?
Understand that what DOK is saying is that Paul preached a DIFFERENT Gospel to the other Apostles. That the Gospel the other Apostles preached applied ONLY to the Jews based on the observance of the Judaic Laws and customs while the Gospel Paul preached was supposedly only for the Gentiles. NONE of this is supported by Biblical teaching and is contrary to it. I am asking DOK to provide the authority by which he is endeavouring to teach and preach these things that are not in accordance with any Bible I have seen or read.
I am still waiting for DOK to provide the authority by which he teaches these things as he seems reluctant to do so despite making several other posts to me since then that only include more claims but no authority by which to make them.
Does anyone ever win these debates? Pride blinds the eyes of the disobedient. If pride doesn't get them on once saved always saved, it gets them on pre-trib and they still become a false teacher. Or pride gets them on faith issues where they try to turn the rock to bread because nothing is impossible for god. Right is right and wrong is wrong. The war is not won until pride is gone. Satan is the father of all of the children of pride, yet Pastors stand up and tell us they are proud to be Christians. This is taking the glory for the free atonement of the blood. We should be thankful, not proud. Pride is lifted up by the world. Pride says look what I have done. Humility says look what Jesus has done for me.
Why does pride say once saved always saved? Because it gives us a freedom to sin and to approve others who sin.
Why does pride say there is a pre-tib rapture? Because it gives Christians an excuse not to study prophecy which is light that shines in a dark place.
Pride is rebellious and is born in the heart of a child. We are told that a rod of correction will drive it out. The world now tells us not to spank children. Why? Because the world is rebellious and proud and controlled by Satan, their father. He wants to stay strong in the children so they won't come to know Christ. Or if they do that they won't be able to stay with the program.
You will never convince the proud they are wrong. They have to be broken. Then they will either repent, if they are truly of God, or they will hate God and blame Him for their situation.
God will not force us to believe true doctrine. We have to chose it ahead of the reasons that pride tries to give us.
We were grafted in, and we can be grafted out to make way for a true branch to be grafted in.
It is for Christ to decide.
God tests the hearts and reigns of man. Many are brought in, tested and thrown out because they won't give up their pride.
Why does pride say once saved always saved? Because it gives us a freedom to sin and to approve others who sin.
Why does pride say there is a pre-tib rapture? Because it gives Christians an excuse not to study prophecy which is light that shines in a dark place.
Pride is rebellious and is born in the heart of a child. We are told that a rod of correction will drive it out. The world now tells us not to spank children. Why? Because the world is rebellious and proud and controlled by Satan, their father. He wants to stay strong in the children so they won't come to know Christ. Or if they do that they won't be able to stay with the program.
You will never convince the proud they are wrong. They have to be broken. Then they will either repent, if they are truly of God, or they will hate God and blame Him for their situation.
God will not force us to believe true doctrine. We have to chose it ahead of the reasons that pride tries to give us.
We were grafted in, and we can be grafted out to make way for a true branch to be grafted in.
It is for Christ to decide.
God tests the hearts and reigns of man. Many are brought in, tested and thrown out because they won't give up their pride.
That's what have been on my mind for years about the once saved, always saved - "Because it gives us a freedom to sin and to approve others who sin." - a pride.
But about the pre-trib - I'm not sure yet if it's pride but I think it's fear of being in pain, sorrows, sufferings. Just my opinion. Please "don't throw rocks at me". Just being opinionated, not arrogant.
And, nobody's going to win this debate.
But about the pre-trib - I'm not sure yet if it's pride but I think it's fear of being in pain, sorrows, sufferings. Just my opinion. Please "don't throw rocks at me". Just being opinionated, not arrogant.
And, nobody's going to win this debate.
Just to clarify for everybody something about the difference between "John's baptism" (Jesus also baptised a great many in this way before the cross) and the Baptisms performed by ALL the Apostles after Pentacost. It was not about "rinse cycle" versus "Dry Clean"
. Both baptisms were by water but John's was purely an act of repentence because at that time Jesus had not been glorified.
After Pentacost it is clear from many passages the Apostles were still baptising by water but now instead of just a "repentence" baptism (referred to as "John's Baptism") they were baptising INTO and IN THE NAME OF Christ Jesus. THAT was something John did not do as Jesus had not yet been glorified as the Son of God and the name by which we were to be baptized. A distinction and difference that is highlighted in several NT passages.
. Both baptisms were by water but John's was purely an act of repentence because at that time Jesus had not been glorified.After Pentacost it is clear from many passages the Apostles were still baptising by water but now instead of just a "repentence" baptism (referred to as "John's Baptism") they were baptising INTO and IN THE NAME OF Christ Jesus. THAT was something John did not do as Jesus had not yet been glorified as the Son of God and the name by which we were to be baptized. A distinction and difference that is highlighted in several NT passages.
Reconsidering..... this is probably not a conversation I want to take part in....
Can we add a "delete post" option to the editing options? If we had one, this wasted post wouldn't be here.
Good decision!
Fear and pride swing on the same pendulum.
No reason to throw rocks at those we love!
Thank you but we should still love those that do not agree with our beliefs. Not in spite or to show that they're wrong and we're the only ones who are right. Isn't the Holy Spirit in us just ONE?? If we are led and walking in the Spirit, please remember Galatians 5:22-23 -
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control ; against such things there is no law.
And, love being the greatest gift is discussed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13 -
4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous ; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly ; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth ;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails ;......
Agreed!
No. Mistman is having problems understanding the scripture that I present.
Just to clarify for everybody something about the difference between "John's baptism" (Jesus also baptised a great many in this way before the cross) and the Baptisms performed by ALL the Apostles after Pentacost. It was not about "rinse cycle" versus "Dry Clean"
After Pentacost it is clear from many passages the Apostles were still baptising by water but now instead of just a "repentence" baptism (referred to as "John's Baptism") they were baptising INTO and IN THE NAME OF Christ Jesus. THAT was something John did not do as Jesus had not yet been glorified as the Son of God and the name by which we were to be baptized. A distinction and difference that is highlighted in several NT passages.
You're almost there, Misty. Keep working on it.
If we are all led by the Holy Spirit then why are there 30,000 denominations, cults, sects, counterfeits ........ why is there debate? Hello?
That theory would contradict Scriptures. OSAS is a doctrine made up by the RC to accuse and discredit Martin Luther - who never made such a claim!!!
But up til today people have accepted it as a religious doctrine and so each side tries to define it as eithertrue or false depending on their opinion. The result is a doctrine which holds several different meanings for several different groups.
You can't fight it. it has found a foothold within the Christian community.
Therefore, I agree with it as far as it is compatible with the Holy Scriptures: Romans 6
Our salvation is not dependent upon the timing of our death, but in Christ Jesus, alone.
Since when has anyone ever needed an OSAS argument to justify their sin? The argument for justifying sin that I heard 99% of the time is to deny the sin is a sin in the first place, "The Bible does say anything about it" or "That is not what that verse means"
In fact, I don't think I have ever heard anyone say, "Sin doesn't matter because I am saved," except for the cult of Universalism., which doesn't depend on Jesus, or OSAS, but rather they claim that since God loves everyone, everyone will be saved, even satan, because a loving god cannot condemn anyone.
Altho, the Bible does not use the phrase "once saved, always saved" I believe the concept is supported in the omniscient nature of God.
Ginger