Hebrews 6:6 does not teach a loss of Salvation.

Gemma, I agree 100% concerning your comments about Mistman. I believe he is a gifted teacher and very gracious in his replies to others.
 
Ginger said:
Since when has anyone ever needed an OSAS argument to justify their sin? The argument for justifying sin that I heard 99% of the time is to deny the sin is a sin in the first place, "The Bible does say anything about it" or "That is not what that verse means"

In fact, I don't think I have ever heard anyone say, "Sin doesn't matter because I am saved," except for the cult of Universalism., which doesn't depend on Jesus, or OSAS, but rather they claim that since God loves everyone, everyone will be saved, even satan, because a loving god cannot condemn anyone.

Altho, the Bible does not use the phrase "once saved, always saved" I believe the concept is supported in the omniscient nature of God.

Ginger
Click to expand...
I thought I should reply to this, even when I have already addressed this one about my view on salvation...

I have some thoughts but it's not relevant at this point so.........yes, I understand what you mean, Ginger, and I am of the same belief as you. God is omniscient so He knows who are His sons and daughters.
 
The counter / location identifier had to be reinstalled. The doteasy counter had to be reinstalled. The column creator is not functioning, so everything appears in one long column. I did manage some paragraph breaks. I think I'll move both locations sometime soon.

If you didn't bother to read the two websites then I see no need to post any further here.
 
Ok. I've been to your doctordok site since you first joined. I didn't read them all because of that format. The paragraphs' column was too narrow while there was a lot of space on the edges.
 
Dok said:
Misty advances some correct theology and then torpedos it with erroneous conclusions. Rather than me point that out here, may I request that you visit my websites?

http://doktordoc.com and http://aeonity.com/dok . You can spend maybe 1/2 hour reading all of both sites, and reach you own conclusions.

I'm a little unhappy right now ~ ~ ~ I went to my sites just moments ago to find all the paragraphing, all the columns, gone! Bummer! I do not understand how that happens. My counter for the number of visitors, which also identified which country they were in, is also missing. Visitors were from Canada, Australia, Russia, Ethiopia, New Zealand ------ and others. I'm very pleased that they were able to tune in to "rightly dividing" scripture.

So now I am closing so that I can go repair the websites.
Click to expand...

I was not aware of you other website "aeonity.com" so I have just had a quick look at that also but it appears to be merely a repeat of the things you have said at the other site. But the thing that puzzles me is why you would name your site after the creation of a major heretical movement against the early church? Are you aware that "Aeon" and "aeons" are the invention of the Valentinus cult that sprung up not long after Christ ascended?

It is one of the major heresies Irenaeus deals with in his "Against Heresies"

Against Heresies, Book 1, Chapter I.—Absurd ideas of the disciples of Valentinus as to the origin, name, order, and conjugal productions of their fancied Æons, with the passages of Scripture which they adapt to their opinions.

1. They maintain, then, that in the invisible and ineffable heights above there exists a certain perfect, pre-existent Æon,2664 whom they call Proarche, Propator, and Bythus, and describe as being invisible and incomprehensible. Eternal and unbegotten, he remained throughout innumerable cycles of ages in profound serenity and quiescence. There existed along with him Ennœa, whom they also call Charis and Sige.2665 At last this Bythus determined to send forth from himself the beginning of all things, and deposited this production (which he had resolved to bring forth) in his contemporary Sige, even as seed is deposited in the womb. She then, having received this seed, and becoming pregnant, gave birth to Nous, who was both similar and equal to him who had produced him, and was alone capable of comprehending his father’s greatness. This Nous they call also Monogenes, and Father, and the Beginning of all Things. Along with him was also produced Aletheia; and these four constituted the first and first-begotten Pythagorean Tetrad, which they also denominate the root of all things. For there are first Bythus and Sige, and then Nous and Aletheia. And Monogenes, perceiving for what purpose he had been produced, also himself sent forth Logos and Zoe, being the father of all those who were to come after him, and the beginning and fashioning of the entire Pleroma. By the conjunction of Logos and Zoe were brought forth Anthropos and Ecclesia; and thus was formed the first-begotten Ogdoad, the root and substance of all things, called among them by four names, viz., Bythus, and Nous, and Logos, and Anthropos. For each of these is masculo-feminine, as follows: Propator was united by a conjunction with his Ennœa; then Monogenes, that is Nous, with Aletheia; Logos with Zoe, and Anthropos with Ecclesia. ...
Click to expand...

Merely curious as to how you came to name the site as you have.
 
People don't THINK because we are under grace and can't be lost we have a license to sin. They just live it because they believe it because it is easier than fighting the flesh. Not everyone who believes it lives in obvious sin. But it does happen.
I have a son who fell for that doctrine and he is now lost. He is a cocaine addict and thinks Jesus was just a forerunner to him. If you don't bow down to him in a literal sense and ask him for forgiveness he goes into a rage and the last time I confronted him he took a swing at me. I have a wife and 3 other kids. I had to put him down. I didn't hit him I just took hold of him and put him on the floor til the cops came. He tried to take them on cursing and swearing like a trooper. They taized him 4 times before they could control him and was carried out.
This man is 31 and had a miraculous conversion where he was delivered from cocaine and other substances. He was walking a perfect Christian walk with a love for the Lord and his word for several years. Then he tried to win some back-slidden friends back to the Lord. They wanted nothing to do with it but he kept on trying. Finally they convinced him to take the cocaine again. Since then he has turned into a false prophet by every sense of the word.
I knew him before and I know him now. He was saved but he isn't anymore. He was grafted in but he has been grafted back out because he chose sin ahead of righteousness.
Your once saved always saved is partly to blame. He is convinced it is a true doctrine because if not he can't live with the conviction. The cocaine has let a demonic spirit take hold of him and now he listens and communes with it thinking it is God.
If the doctrine that no one should eat meat is a doctrine of demons, according to scripture, what is this doctrine of once saved always saved.
 
LambOfChrist said:
People don't THINK because we are under grace and can't be lost we have a license to sin. They just live it because they believe it because it is easier than fighting the flesh. Not everyone who believes it lives in obvious sin. But it does happen.
I have a son who fell for that doctrine and he is now lost. He is a cocaine addict and thinks Jesus was just a forerunner to him. If you don't bow down to him in a literal sense and ask him for forgiveness he goes into a rage and the last time I confronted him he took a swing at me. I have a wife and 3 other kids. I had to put him down. I didn't hit him I just took hold of him and put him on the floor til the cops came. He tried to take them on cursing and swearing like a trooper. They taized him 4 times before they could control him and was carried out.
This man is 31 and had a miraculous conversion where he was delivered from cocaine and other substances. He was walking a perfect Christian walk with a love for the Lord and his word for several years. Then he tried to win some back-slidden friends back to the Lord. They wanted nothing to do with it but he kept on trying. Finally they convinced him to take the cocaine again. Since then he has turned into a false prophet by every sense of the word.
I knew him before and I know him now. He was saved but he isn't anymore. He was grafted in but he has been grafted back out because he chose sin ahead of righteousness.
Your once saved always saved is partly to blame. He is convinced it is a true doctrine because if not he can't live with the conviction. The cocaine has let a demonic spirit take hold of him and now he listens and communes with it thinking it is God.
If the doctrine that no one should eat meat is a doctrine of demons, according to scripture, what is this doctrine of once saved always saved.
Click to expand...

Hi LOC,

Thankyou for sharing this with us I pray the Lord continues to grant you the strength and comfort to endure the pain and grief this must be causing for you and your family. Indeed if we are only saved by the grace and will of God today it is a certainty that it is STILL only by the grace and will of the Lord that we are saved tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that, and ... There is no Law that the Lord MUST save anybody nor any law that says that once He saves us we cannot still decide to walk away.

My prayer and hope for you is that while your son may have let go of the Lord it does not necessarily mean that the Lord has let go of your son. May the parable of the Prodigal Son give you hope and the strength to endure and persevere.
 
mistmann said:
I was not aware of you other website "aeonity.com" so I have just had a quick look at that also but it appears to be merely a repeat of the things you have said at the other site. But the thing that puzzles me is why you would name your site after the creation of a major heretical movement against the early church? Are you aware that "Aeon" and "aeons" are the invention of the Valentinus cult that sprung up not long after Christ ascended?

It is one of the major heresies Irenaeus deals with in his "Against Heresies"

Merely curious as to how you came to name the site as you have.
Click to expand...

Excellant obsevation!
Just so that we all understand where misty is coming from (And I am NOT putting words in his mouth, he can speak for himself) I think the "hereisy" he is pointing to which came from Valentinus (in part) was part of the Gnostic religion.

Valentinus was born in the year 100 CE in Phenobia, Egypt, went to live in Rome when he was 36, and died in 160 on the island of Cyprus. He was educated in the Egyptian city of Alexandria, where he became acquainted with Judaism, Christianity, and many a pagan cult and school of philosophy including the grandest of them, Platonism and Neopythagoreanism. He was ordained a Christian priest but while in Rome broke away from the church and founded a new religion, perhaps because (as some chroniclers gossip) he wasn’t made bishop of Rome (Pope), a rival being preferred.

Valentianism was a Gnostic creed. Valentinians believed that salvation from the miseries of earthly existence is attainable by an elite among humankind through the Gnosis (knowledge) with which they are spiritually gifted.

The question then as misty posted is WHY WOULD YOU NAME YOUR SITE AFTER SUCH ERROR?

It is a good question. Am I correct about this Misty????

Many years ago I was invited to attend a Masonic Lodge meeting and I was told that the Mason's were in fact a HIGHER leval of Christian. Being young and impressionable, I thought.......why not. When we arrived at the lodge the member who brought me used a password at the door to get in and the word was "ABADDON". That sounded strange to me but I could not remember why.
Several months later while in a Bible study in the Revelation. that word came up again.

Rev. 9:11............
"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

Immediatly I was convicted by the Holy Spirit that I was in a place that used the name of ABADDON to gain entrance. The name ABADDON in the Hebrew means...... "DESCRUCTION".
It is either a demonic angel or Satan himself.
 
LambOfChrist said:
People don't THINK because we are under grace and can't be lost we have a license to sin. They just live it because they believe it because it is easier than fighting the flesh. Not everyone who believes it lives in obvious sin. But it does happen.
I have a son who fell for that doctrine and he is now lost. He is a cocaine addict and thinks Jesus was just a forerunner to him. If you don't bow down to him in a literal sense and ask him for forgiveness he goes into a rage and the last time I confronted him he took a swing at me. I have a wife and 3 other kids. I had to put him down. I didn't hit him I just took hold of him and put him on the floor til the cops came. He tried to take them on cursing and swearing like a trooper. They taized him 4 times before they could control him and was carried out.
This man is 31 and had a miraculous conversion where he was delivered from cocaine and other substances. He was walking a perfect Christian walk with a love for the Lord and his word for several years. Then he tried to win some back-slidden friends back to the Lord. They wanted nothing to do with it but he kept on trying. Finally they convinced him to take the cocaine again. Since then he has turned into a false prophet by every sense of the word.
I knew him before and I know him now. He was saved but he isn't anymore. He was grafted in but he has been grafted back out because he chose sin ahead of righteousness.
Your once saved always saved is partly to blame. He is convinced it is a true doctrine because if not he can't live with the conviction. The cocaine has let a demonic spirit take hold of him and now he listens and communes with it thinking it is God.
If the doctrine that no one should eat meat is a doctrine of demons, according to scripture, what is this doctrine of once saved always saved.
Click to expand...

I hate to hear what happened to your family my friend. I went through something like that with my daughter many years ago. It is trajic and heart breaking and you have my sympathy and prayers.

May I also let you know a couple of things, Biblically.

While OSAS is actually not in the Scripture as worded that way....neither is the word Rapture but both come under the teaching of "implied truth".

I belive in Once Saved Always Saved but I believe a lot more in the word "ONCE SAVED".

1 John 2:19 gives a clear answer about FIRST coming to Christ. Here John gives the explination THAT WE AS PARENTS DO NOT WANT TO HEAR and it is a distinction between those who appear to be Christians based on what we see from them, and those who really are born again and whom the Lord knows and claims as His own.

OSAS is not to be blamed as the cause of your childs problem my friend(IMO). His choice to take the drugs was HIS choice as it was mine and yours. The door to substance abuse opens the mind to demons. So I do agree with you that a demonic spirit has gained controle of him but the Bible also tells us that He who is in you is stronger than he who is in the world. Never give up hope!!!
 
LambOfChrist said:
People don't THINK because we are under grace and can't be lost we have a license to sin. They just live it because they believe it because it is easier than fighting the flesh. Not everyone who believes it lives in obvious sin. But it does happen.
I have a son who fell for that doctrine and he is now lost. He is a cocaine addict and thinks Jesus was just a forerunner to him. If you don't bow down to him in a literal sense and ask him for forgiveness he goes into a rage and the last time I confronted him he took a swing at me. I have a wife and 3 other kids. I had to put him down. I didn't hit him I just took hold of him and put him on the floor til the cops came. He tried to take them on cursing and swearing like a trooper. They taized him 4 times before they could control him and was carried out.
This man is 31 and had a miraculous conversion where he was delivered from cocaine and other substances. He was walking a perfect Christian walk with a love for the Lord and his word for several years. Then he tried to win some back-slidden friends back to the Lord. They wanted nothing to do with it but he kept on trying. Finally they convinced him to take the cocaine again. Since then he has turned into a false prophet by every sense of the word.
I knew him before and I know him now. He was saved but he isn't anymore. He was grafted in but he has been grafted back out because he chose sin ahead of righteousness.
Your once saved always saved is partly to blame. He is convinced it is a true doctrine because if not he can't live with the conviction. The cocaine has let a demonic spirit take hold of him and now he listens and communes with it thinking it is God.
If the doctrine that no one should eat meat is a doctrine of demons, according to scripture, what is this doctrine of once saved always saved.
Click to expand...
Hi LoC. This is a really tragic situation, but don't give up hope. I have two sons who both made powerful commitments to the Lord when they were kids, but have both walked away from Him as adults (though not as strongly as your son has.) Right now, I do not believe that they are still saved, and were they to die at this moment I believe they would be lost for eternity. However, I do not believe that one can walk out on a commitment to God that easily - I believe the Holy Spirit will persue them till their dying breaths.

I have another friend whose son went down a similar path many years ago, but for different reasons. He had decided that he knew the year when the Lord would return, so he planned to live as he chose till the start of that year, then return to Christ. (Rather stupid - even if he had the year right, he could have been hit by a truck before then.) He also got into drugs, did jail time, and ended up as a false prophet with a heap of demonic baggage. But (thanks, I am sure, to his mother's prayers) he did eventually turn back to God, repent of his sin and renounce the demonic.

You and your son will be in my prayers.

blessings,

Lynn
 
This is Heb 6:4-6:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Very clear, this refers to "those once enlightened" that is, real "born again," that means miraculous conversion from "goat" to "sheep" since at the FALL, all people became "spiritual goats."

And salvation is reconversion to "sheep" as at the Creation of man.

Judas Iscariot is a typical example having been an "Apostle of Christ." And, "Falling away" is what everybody knows how Judas fell into this trap of the Devil.
 
Mercy = a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion; lenient or compassionate treatment

1 Chronicles 16:34 . . .
Oh, give thanks to the LORD, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever.

Psalm 107:1; 118:29; 136:1-9 (and many more) . . .
Oh, give thanks to the LORD, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever.

NOTHING will separate us from God's love . . . Romans 8:35-39.
 
Major said:
Excellant obsevation!
Just so that we all understand where misty is coming from (And I am NOT putting words in his mouth, he can speak for himself) I think the "hereisy" he is pointing to which came from Valentinus (in part) was part of the Gnostic religion.

Valentinus was born in the year 100 CE in Phenobia, Egypt, went to live in Rome when he was 36, and died in 160 on the island of Cyprus. He was educated in the Egyptian city of Alexandria, where he became acquainted with Judaism, Christianity, and many a pagan cult and school of philosophy including the grandest of them, Platonism and Neopythagoreanism. He was ordained a Christian priest but while in Rome broke away from the church and founded a new religion, perhaps because (as some chroniclers gossip) he wasn’t made bishop of Rome (Pope), a rival being preferred.

Valentianism was a Gnostic creed. Valentinians believed that salvation from the miseries of earthly existence is attainable by an elite among humankind through the Gnosis (knowledge) with which they are spiritually gifted.

The question then as misty posted is WHY WOULD YOU NAME YOUR SITE AFTER SUCH ERROR?

It is a good question. Am I correct about this Misty????

Many years ago I was invited to attend a Masonic Lodge meeting and I was told that the Mason's were in fact a HIGHER leval of Christian. Being young and impressionable, I thought.......why not. When we arrived at the lodge the member who brought me used a password at the door to get in and the word was "ABADDON". That sounded strange to me but I could not remember why.
Several months later while in a Bible study in the Revelation. that word came up again.

Rev. 9:11............
"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

Immediatly I was convicted by the Holy Spirit that I was in a place that used the name of ABADDON to gain entrance. The name ABADDON in the Hebrew means...... "DESCRUCTION".
It is either a demonic angel or Satan himself.
Click to expand...

Thanks Major but I was merely asking a question of Dok and explaining why I was asking. It may or may not be something quite innocent. The answer will lay in his response or, by the look of it, significant lack of a response.
 
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