How do you minister to a.....

Fish Catcher Jim

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#21
Couple more things to think about.

1. It's already a game with him.
Shhhh don't tell anyone. Like this is our secret.
2. If a supervisor finds out and then finds out that you knew but chose to cover it up and help hide it.
Now your but is in the sling too!

It's tough but he needs help.
 

Cturtle

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#23
Is this a confirmation here. I say this because I was just thinking the very same thing. I am not helping him by helping him if that makes sense and I thought the first time, I will help maybe something really happened to push him there. But now again I cannot support that.
I believe it is, because I have been asking the Lord to speak to your heart to show you what to do... And I'm thinking the same as you and Jim.
 
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#24
... but he said he's not ready. Only God can deliver him. I am thinking maybe he needs to hit rock bottom before he want to make a change. ...
I know God can do it for him. But like you said, he has to want it.
Yes, he has to reach a non-reserve rock bottom. Ego-deflation at depth is the usual requirement. Unfortunately most alcoholics die as alcoholics, and most who have seeked help also die as practicing alcoholics. It really is a bad addiction. Of the thousands of alcoholics I know that are recovering, most of the ones that die alcohol free have God in loving mind on a daily basis.

He said he is not ready. Let him be. As long as he is not WILLING TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS he will always compromise. Any further assistance usually delays his rock-bottom. So let him go.

In future circumstances, a better question to ask, is "What would you say to your best friend (or family member) to do, if they were in your situation?"

Timing is always critical in such questions. Experience plays a big part. However, the Spirit of Truth is the best counsellor. Listen to the Holy Spirit. Often you may be asked to just listen and wait. Good answers that the other person finds for themselves sticks in their mind more so than being told.

Anyway, I would let him go, but always stay aware to the truth of the situation. If you don't, you will be exploited, for reasons of staying drunk, or even for one more drink.

Tough-love, without compromise, is the best approach.
 

godbe4me

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#25
Yes, he has to reach a non-reserve rock bottom. Ego-deflation at depth is the usual requirement. Unfortunately most alcoholics die as alcoholics, and most who have seeked help also die as practicing alcoholics. It really is a bad addiction. Of the thousands of alcoholics I know that are recovering, most of the ones that die alcohol free have God in loving mind on a daily basis.

He said he is not ready. Let him be. As long as he is not WILLING TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS he will always compromise. Any further assistance usually delays his rock-bottom. So let him go.

In future circumstances, a better question to ask, is "What would you say to your best friend (or family member) to do, if they were in your situation?"

Timing is always critical in such questions. Experience plays a big part. However, the Spirit of Truth is the best counsellor. Listen to the Holy Spirit. Often you may be asked to just listen and wait. Good answers that the other person finds for themselves sticks in their mind more so than being told.

Anyway, I would let him go, but always stay aware to the truth of the situation. If you don't, you will be exploited, for reasons of staying drunk, or even for one more drink.

Tough-love, without compromise, is the best approach.
Thank you very much. That was a good question, "What you you say to your best friend (or family member) to do , if they were in your situation?"
 
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#26
Yes I learned the hard way an alcoholic or addict may say they wants help, but help to them means help. continue drinking or whatever it is they are doing to justify their problem. You being their ear or bottomless pit to pour their sorrows. Do not become their surrogate bartender.

Keep praying though, and if your work has a health and safety policy in place, which most have, then if someone is working under the influence and intoxicated that is a danger to themselves and everyone else around them and needs to be reported.

It is no different from reporting a crime of abuse to the police. The reason why many people dont do this and put up with abuse is because its a family member or someone above themselves or even their own spouse. Or that person says they are a friend but they actually 'use' their friends to cover for them. God will give you wisdom with this.

If hes showing signs of seeking God then good, but if not leave alone.
 
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godbe4me

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#27
My father was an alcoholic in that his alcoholism is the reason for the loss of his family. He lost his family, job and you would think that would have been the rock bottom for him but it wasn't. My father ended up being homeless for years before I even found out about it. My sister called me and said, "you know I saw daddy on 14th street laying on the sidewalk." She picked him up off the streets and took him home with her. When my mother and father divorced he distant himself from me and my brother. He was so out of it. He didn't even care if he saw us or not. Many of nights I went to bed crying because he said he was coming to get us and never showed up. It just crushed me. Getting him off the streets is the hardest thing for a drunk man who is used to living on the streets. My sister would tell me of the hard time she had with him to even go to the bathroom instead of just going on himself. The only thing he wanted was a drink and nothing else mattered. It took years for him to realize all he lost. And, he didn't realize that until he came to Christ. God did a transformation on him to where he helped a couple of his drinking buddies off the streets, he ended up getting a job and getting his own place. And, God used him to help others and he would let some of them stay with him to get them off the streets. He would cook food to take to them for nourishment. He joined a church and became a cook. Before my father became an alcoholic, he was a "master chef" He cooked for many of the restaurants in Washington, DC. Although he stopped drinking and gave his life to God, the years of drinking caught up with him and God called him home.

On his death bed, he told my sister that if he had it to do all over again, he would have all his children with him. The only person that was there with him was my sister. He had (4) children. I didn't find out that he passed away until later that night. My sister didn't want to tell me while I was at work. So, she waited until I got off from work.

I never got to say good bye. I never got to say, "I love you" I never got to say, "I forgive you" There's a lot of things I wanted to say but did not get the chance to say. But I will see him again and we will have a good sit down and walks and talks while we are walking in heaven. Yes, I will see him again. Thank You Jesus for saving my father and not let him be lost not only to himself but to You. Thank You Jesus.
 

Cturtle

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#29
My father was an alcoholic in that his alcoholism is the reason for the loss of his family. He lost his family, job and you would think that would have been the rock bottom for him but it wasn't. My father ended up being homeless for years before I even found out about it. My sister called me and said, "you know I saw daddy on 14th street laying on the sidewalk." She picked him up off the streets and took him home with her. When my mother and father divorced he distant himself from me and my brother. He was so out of it. He didn't even care if he saw us or not. Many of nights I went to bed crying because he said he was coming to get us and never showed up. It just crushed me. Getting him off the streets is the hardest thing for a drunk man who is used to living on the streets. My sister would tell me of the hard time she had with him to even go to the bathroom instead of just going on himself. The only thing he wanted was a drink and nothing else mattered. It took years for him to realize all he lost. And, he didn't realize that until he came to Christ. God did a transformation on him to where he helped a couple of his drinking buddies off the streets, he ended up getting a job and getting his own place. And, God used him to help others and he would let some of them stay with him to get them off the streets. He would cook food to take to them for nourishment. He joined a church and became a cook. Before my father became an alcoholic, he was a "master chef" He cooked for many of the restaurants in Washington, DC. Although he stopped drinking and gave his life to God, the years of drinking caught up with him and God called him home.

On his death bed, he told my sister that if he had it to do all over again, he would have all his children with him. The only person that was there with him was my sister. He had (4) children. I didn't find out that he passed away until later that night. My sister didn't want to tell me while I was at work. So, she waited until I got off from work.

I never got to say good bye. I never got to say, "I love you" I never got to say, "I forgive you" There's a lot of things I wanted to say but did not get the chance to say. But I will see him again and we will have a good sit down and walks and talks while we are walking in heaven. Yes, I will see him again. Thank You Jesus for saving my father and not let him be lost not only to himself but to You. Thank You Jesus.
My dad also for a long time was an alcoholic. He got saved when I was young, but never really committed his life to serving the Lord (or staying dry at least) till I was about 16. It's definitely a difficult road for a child to travel and the Lord and I have had many talks about how the devil robbed me of my dad during my childhood. Cuz even thought he was around... He was not there for me and my brother emotionally. And then because of my dad's past... The enemy took hold of my brother and he didn't make it out of it.

But like you said... Praise God they're both in heaven and being taken good care of by Our Lord... And I do so look forward to enjoying their company once I'm through with my assignments here. :)
 

godbe4me

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#30
My dad also for a long time was an alcoholic. He got saved when I was young, but never really committed his life to serving the Lord (or staying dry at least) till I was about 16. It's definitely a difficult road for a child to travel and the Lord and I have had many talks about how the devil robbed me of my dad during my childhood. Cuz even thought he was around... He was not there for me and my brother emotionally. And then because of my dad's past... The enemy took hold of my brother and he didn't make it out of it.

But like you said... Praise God they're both in heaven and being taken good care of by Our Lord... And I do so look forward to enjoying their company once I'm through with my assignments here. :)


AMEN....Sister....AMEN!!!!! I am not going to cry. I am not!!!
 
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#34
About thirty years ago I went to a skid row AA meeting at Matthew Talbot Hostel for the homeless (St Vincent de Paul) in Sydney. There I met the AA secretary; she was about 20 y.o. and ex-alcoholic _ heroin addict. She had a very powerful message for those that would hear. Most at the meeting were suffering from alcohol related brain damage, and were having trouble listening to any message, let alone sitting still..

Her story was simple, yet miraculous. She woke up one morning in the gutter of Oxford Street (a main street in Sydney). Everybody was in a haste to get to work. From the smell she knew that during the night, strangers had urinated and dropped their rubbish on her. As she opened her eyes and gained some visual focus, she saw ants going along the gutter. She realized that these ants knew where they were going, but she did not know where she was going. This humiliating revelation was enough for her to sincerely ask God for help. She was at that point ready to go to any length to change. That was her first day clean and sober. I think at the time of the AA meeting, she already had two years up.

I am telling you this because I know hundreds of such stories. Each remind me that, regardless of personal circumstances, God is always available to those that unconditionally seek Him.
 

godbe4me

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#35
About thirty years ago I went to a skid row AA meeting at Matthew Talbot Hostel for the homeless (St Vincent de Paul) in Sydney. There I met the AA secretary; she was about 20 y.o. and ex-alcoholic _ heroin addict. She had a very powerful message for those that would hear. Most at the meeting were suffering from alcohol related brain damage, and were having trouble listening to any message, let alone sitting still..

Her story was simple, yet miraculous. She woke up one morning in the gutter of Oxford Street (a main street in Sydney). Everybody was in a haste to get to work. From the smell she knew that during the night, strangers had urinated and dropped their rubbish on her. As she opened her eyes and gained some visual focus, she saw ants going along the gutter. She realized that these ants knew where they were going, but she did not know where she was going. This humiliating revelation was enough for her to sincerely ask God for help. She was at that point ready to go to any length to change. That was her first day clean and sober. I think at the time of the AA meeting, she already had two years up.

I am telling you this because I know hundreds of such stories. Each remind me that, regardless of personal circumstances, God is always available to those that unconditionally seek Him.
AMEN!!!! the ants knew where they were going and she didn't....Very powerful!!!! Thank you so much and yes God is there for those who seek Him.
 
#36
Something that struck me reading this was humiliation how that relates to humilty. When God gives us a revelation, often its showing us how we cant do anything without Him. For example when Jesus was on the cross there was absolutely nothing he could do to come off it. He was nailed. He was completely humiliated. Yet he still had breath in his body to praise God and to pray and it was that that got him through.

God gives grace to the humble, yet resists the proud. When someone is alcholic or an addict a lot of the time they are actually quite proud of their own addiction, because it gives them a high and a feeling that they can do anything but in reality they cant. Quite a few have told me just how much they look forward to a drink and getting wasted. They dont even care that they will vomit up that drink the next morning, leave their children behind, and be in no fit state to work.

Ive had sugar addicts tell me how good sugar makes them feel. And how they just cannot get through the day without a fix and they will fixate on whatever it is they are fixated on, the next coffee, the next thing they will buy, the next drink. Their conversation will revolve around the addiction. Nothing you can say will dissuade them from that topic.

Its sometimes hard to guage when a person is humbled so God can then give them grace, but if someones still boasting about how much they drink they are still proud. Even if they make a show of trying to hide it, what they doing is trying to find a partner in crime to let them continue on with it and cover for them. The drink or addiction is a cover for an underlying problem they are not willing to face.

Somehow you just need to be tough and not compromise and make it clear its not acceptable but dont involve yourself many are quite proud that they can drink and not be caught and all the things they feel they can get away with when drunk. I think its quite odd that people think its funny to be drunk. If they could see the consequences of their actions but they cant because alcohol damages their brains. And if they have children its going to damage their children too.

One of my workmates has a flatmate who goes on binges. I do suspect she is just using him to bring in rent money, she has a child whos 4 years old and dosent seem to be aware when shes passed out on the floor that she during that time her child wonders whats wrong with his mum. He considered moving out because he couldnt handle her drunken binges but somehow she convinced him to stay, when she continues to have the occasional binge just because she can. The father of the child is out of the picture, but, this workmate cant do anything to make her stop drinking its her own choice. It may come to a point where her child will be taken off her.

Anyway just think you might want to direct your prayers to the children of alcoholics seeing as youve experienced the same. Because they will be aware, far more than the alcoholic him/herself of God and Hes got great compassion for them because they are the ones who need a Father and they are the ones who need to salvation and are often neglected in the drive to reach an alcoholic to save them from self-destruction.
 
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godbe4me

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#37
Well Peter Luke, I did not get a chance to say anything but he came back from a meeting drunk again on Friday. I thought about what you said about "our little secret" One of my co-workers looked at me and motioned her hand up and down like bringing a bottle up to your mouth. He looked at me, looked down and almost fell trying to sit in his chair. I said nothing. I continued with what I had to do and act like I did not see him. I thought about what Jim said in that maybe I should say something. As I stated earlier, he is a "contractor' working on a very big project for the Government. He sat down and began typing. I am thinking, "what in the world is he typing over there and drunk" I then decided to go to my manager and have a meeting with her. She went over to him to ask a question and he was asleep. She woke him up and asked her question and she smelled it and saw it in his eyes. Another co-worker saw it when he came in and called his contracting manager and requested a meeting with him. Thank you "Jim" for that valuable advice. I am so glad I said something before the other person called his manager. This project is too big and we need to be on point. Just asking myself, if you went to a meeting with a client that took all day and you leave at 4pm why come back to the office at 3:20 drunk? Why didn't he just go straight home? I have a young lady here who is young and I adopted as my work daughter to show her the ropes. She is no more than 23yrs old. He is 52 years old. I caught him looking at her in a uncomfortable way. I went up to him and asked him what he was looking at? He said, the devil told him to look at her butt. He said I know its wrong. Before he had a chance to continue I told him with a very firm voice, "she is off limits...DO YOU HEAR ME!!!" You stay away from her....DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR???? He said I'm sorry but I will be honest, I have been watching her and you caught me again because you are just so d... nosey. I said, "You heard what I said!!!!" That was another confirmation that let me know that I did the right thing. When I was preparing to leave, he got up from his desk and was standing at the elevator leaning back and forth. I think he was waiting for me. But I thought about what you said, "never administer alone." So, I got to the elevator and said have a good weekend and got on the elevator. He just stood there looking like he was expecting me to say more. When the elevator closed, I asked God to protect him. That was really hard to do....Walk away like that. But I knew he would have only given me excuses and lies. And, in the state he was in, he would not have received me ministering to him.

I think he will be released because I am not the only one who saw him on Friday. Secret is out....I also did not like the way he was looking at my work daughter. I don't know how far to the bottom he has to go before he wakes up but I pray: Father, protect him, deliver him, save him and comfort him. Bring him through this attack and give him the strength to seek You. Give him a sober mind long enough to say "Yes" to You and to ask for healing and deliverance. In Jesus name I pray...AMEN
 
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#38
Well Peter Luke, I did not get a chance to say anything but he came back from a meeting drunk again on Friday. I thought about what you said about "our little secret" One of my co-workers looked at me and motioned her hand up and down like bringing a bottle up to your mouth. He looked at me, looked down and almost fell trying to sit in his chair. I said nothing. I continued with what I had to do and act like I did not see him. I thought about what Jim said in that maybe I should say something. As I stated earlier, he is a "contractor' working on a very big project for the Government. He sat down and began typing. I am thinking, "what in the world is he typing over there and drunk" I then decided to go to my manager and have a meeting with her. She went over to him to ask a question and he was asleep. She woke him up and asked her question and she smelled it and saw it in his eyes. Another co-worker saw it when he came in and called his contracting manager and requested a meeting with him. Thank you "Jim" for that valuable advice. I am so glad I said something before the other person called his manager. This project is too big and we need to be on point. Just asking myself, if you went to a meeting with a client that took all day and you leave at 4pm why come back to the office at 3:20 drunk? Why didn't he just go straight home? I have a young lady here who is young and I adopted as my work daughter to show her the ropes. She is no more than 23yrs old. He is 52 years old. I caught him looking at her in a uncomfortable way. I went up to him and asked him what he was looking at? He said, the devil told him to look at her butt. He said I know its wrong. Before he had a chance to continue I told him with a very firm voice, "she is off limits...DO YOU HEAR ME!!!" You stay away from her....DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR???? He said I'm sorry but I will be honest, I have been watching her and you caught me again because you are just so d... nosey. I said, "You heard what I said!!!!" That was another confirmation that let me know that I did the right thing. When I was preparing to leave, he got up from his desk and was standing at the elevator leaning back and forth. I think he was waiting for me. But I thought about what you said, "never administer alone." So, I got to the elevator and said have a good weekend and got on the elevator. He just stood there looking like he was expecting me to say more. When the elevator closed, I asked God to protect him. That was really hard to do....Walk away like that. But I knew he would have only given me excuses and lies. And, in the state he was in, he would not have received me ministering to him.

I think he will be released because I am not the only one who saw him on Friday. Secret is out....I also did not like the way he was looking at my work daughter. I don't know how far to the bottom he has to go before he wakes up but I pray: Father, protect him, deliver him, save him and comfort him. Bring him through this attack and give him the strength to seek You. Give him a sober mind long enough to say "Yes" to You and to ask for healing and deliverance. In Jesus name I pray...AMEN
Well done! I think you handled the whole situation very well. Through you, he was able to experience the love and caring of Jesus which always makes an impact. Whether it makes a change in his life, we may never know. But we cannot make him change.
Just as Jesus in Matthew 19 and Mark 10 gave direction to the rich young man, so too, we can only point them in the direction of Christ. The rich young man walked away saddened by what he needed to do, and this man you encountered has difficult and heartbreaking things to consider to make way for his heart to open. We don't know if the rich young man changes his mindset from the love of money(wealth) to one of love of Christ. But he was given the decision and the direction to change his life.
That is our mission.
 
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godbe4me

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#39
Well everyone another update from yesterday:

When he arrived to work, he asked if he could talk to me. I asked what was it about because I was not going to administer alone. He look at me strangely when I asked what it was about. He said, "It will only take a moment." I went with him to the break room. He said, "I just want to let you know that as far as everyone is concerned, I will be on vacation next week. But, I just want you to know that I am going back to the treatment center on Monday morning. I am telling you because you have been so helpful to me." I said, "thank You Jesus." He said, "You didn't think I was listening but I was. I realize I can't do this alone and I need God's help." I said, "Yes, you do and no you can't do it alone. I am so glad to hear this." He said, "now I have to make it through this week and stay out the bars after work." I said, ask God to help you and He will. That was all I said.

When the other co-worker called his contracting manager the other day, he showed up yesterday. He met with the person who reported him and told her that he will be pulling him back to the main office to work at a desk. He seems to think that he had too much time to go to those stores. He realize he is not ready to have that type of freedom yet. He needs to be in a setting where he can't just get up and walk out like he can here. That let me know that he was aware of his problem. The manager stated that he will contact his frat partner who he reports to and have him talk to him. He said he will not fire him because he is doing a friend a favor. He said, he hope that he realizes the help he's getting. So, I am thinking maybe his friend called him up last night and talked him into treatment again.

When he came in this morning, he said good morning and that he had to come and get his laptop and report to the main headquarters. He said, I asked if everything was okay and they said yes. So, I believe he will not be coming back but reporting to the main building and working at a desk so that they can watch him closer.

Just goes to show that some people are only meant to cross your paths or come into your life for a season. I pray that in the short season he was here, I did what God wanted me to do. I pray that he gets his deliverance from alcohol and give God all the glory and praise.
 

godbe4me

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#40
Well done! I think you handled the whole situation very well. Through you, he was able to experience the love and caring of Jesus which always makes an impact. Whether it makes a change in his life, we may never know. But we cannot make him change.
Just as Jesus in Matthew 19 and Mark 10 gave direction to the rich young man, so too, we can only point them in the direction of Christ. The rich young man walked away saddened by what he needed to do, and this man you encountered has difficult and heartbreaking things to consider to make way for his heart to open. We don't know if the rich young man changes his mindset from the love of money(wealth) to one of love of Christ. But he was given the decision and the direction to change his life.
That is our mission.
Thank you Big Moose. I thank God for using me. I thank God for you Big Moose for showing me how to go about it and what I needed to do. God allows us to go through things so that we can be a blessing to others when they go through the same thing. Thank you Big Moose and thank You Jesus for your child who did not hesitate to jump right in and assist. But I feel a little sad because I know that I will not see him again. I pray he makes it.