How Does One Keep The Sabbath And Does It Apply To The New Covenant

I liked your post ..
I just walked in on the Baptism thread and looked around ..
what was weird was I agreed with everyone on one point or another ..
I very much see the Sabbath like Baptism ..
I think there always is greater significance behind all, but it seems to me God is asking for us to show Him in the little things as well ..
kind of like a spouse who requests some obscure thing to test your love ..

so to me .. no problem .. I try and treat everyday like a Sabbath anyway ..
it's kinda like God saying at least treat me with love one day a week ..
so if you fail in that, then it doesn't say much about your relation with God ..
my 2 cents ..
 
ixoye_8 said:
Brother_Mike_V ..
I think your verse you brought out is very good ..
how do you think it is a gift ???
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"Slaves" don't get a rest- or a god that cares.

Children, willing servants; get rewards from a loving God. God set the example the 'seventh day'. Much like He set the ultimate example by dieing on the cross.

The Pharisees profane the sabbath-our Pastors who work for the Glory of God by preaching to those who are not physically working.
 
Sorry but long posts require long responses...please read slowly

The issue of Exodus 16…We see in Exodus 12:2 that for His names sake in Israel, God made a brand new calendar….this for them was to be the beginning of months and that day was the 1ST day of the 1st month…and from that day forward the children of Israel were to follow a calendar not known to the rest of the world, nor even to them hithertofore….from that very chapter on we begin to hear about Sabbaths (says which the Lord had determined to set apart for His purpose and devotion to Him among these people and only these people)….Yes it is part of the covenant agreement with these people (never was insisted on for any other people)…

In Deuteronomy 5 when Moses is reiterating the terms of the covenant (which contains the 4th commandment) the Spirit through Moses shows us that these terms have never been covenanted with any other, not even their own fathers (Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, or even Jacob)…none before these people were bound to keep this agreement. Though some were aware of this because of the story of creation, none were bound nor commanded to “keep the Sabbath” prior to this. The Israelites however were bound to keep all these 10 commandments and the feasts of Passover, and Unleavened Bread (the Passover on the 14th of Nisan, the first day of UB on the 15th and the last day of UB on the 21st were also days of Holy Convocation and Rest) perpetually for all their generations once they entered the covenant at Horeb.

The word Sabbath first appears in Exodus and is not anywhere found in the book of Genesis. Therefore the passage about the 7th day when God rested has no significance regarding a day someone is to keep until Exodus….we are made in His image and should have a day of rest because He foreknew as a result of the fall man would have to work by the sweat of his brow just to eat….it only became a Holy Ordinance for Israel to “keep it” in Exodus.


It is a day blessed by God…Yes indeed it is and I am blessed by it though I attend church (gathering for corporate worship) on the 1st day (after the order of the feast of first fruits upon which He rose overcoming death for our justification, the day He the new hope the eternal rest appeared to His disciples, and the day the Holy Spirit or new eternal life was birthed into those who faithed) and as you pointed out, history shows the early members of His body (because most were either Israelites or proselytes) gathered on the 7th day Sabbath (though nowhere commanded of God in the OT or the NT) and on the 1st or 8th day (we see this even in some of the earliest church writings)…

Jesus and the Apostles did this “as was His custom”, Paul also did this “as was his custom” they also kept the feast of dedication (Hannukah) and wore the tallith as was there custom. A “custom” is a tradition not based on a commandment from God but on the practice developed by the people and as taught by their religious leaders. None of these things are binding on Gentiles (Acts 15:5-20).

The practice of gathering together for corporate worship on the 7th day was a tradition developed during the Babylonian Captivity so people would not forget the Lord or His ordinances and continued when the children of Judah (the first Jews) returned to the land. There is no commandment to do this and nowhere in the OT do the children of Israel (with whom was the very covenant we are discussing) ever do this (gather on the 7th day for corporate worship at the Tabernacle or Temple) both Exodus and Leviticus make it perfectly clear that the Sabbath convocation and rest was to take place in the home and you were not to go far from your place on the 7th day…

Exodus 16:29 tells us “…abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”

Leviticus 23:3 says “Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of work; it is a Sabbath unto the LORD in all your dwellings. “

Note these important things…it is “a” Sabbath not “the” Sabbath. Also note “in” (inside of or within) “all” (many, plural) “your” (personal as in each one) “dwellings” (plural as in their homes)…

So having clarified that for the purpose of discussion when we read in the Holy Spirits theopneustos graphae that it is not about a day but about our devotional time and our need for a day of rest then it matters not which day we gather for corporate worship so doing so on the 7th day Sabbath is fine (if that is the tradition you wish to observe) but so is it also fine (in fact more in line with the Torah’s restriction on the Sabbath) to gather together for corporate worship on the 1st day (or 8th day)…

But the OP question was really HOW does one keep the Sabbath not WHY…

In His love

Brother Paul
 
Candelario Mario Villa said:
Today we enter into God's rest when we receive the Holy Spirit.
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really ???
then why can God blot out a name from the Book of Life ..
and why does Paul say this ???

Hbr 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Hbr 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Hbr 6:6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

if you are going to be a self-appointed teacher, at least don't teach the opposite of scripture ..
 
Brother Paul said:
So there we have it...a twofold question...

a) How does one keep the Sabbath (if they believe they must)

b) Is keeping the Sabbath applicable the same way in the two Covenants (Old and New)

My first premise is that modern Sabbatarians do not keep the Sabbath the way God commanded...

Let's discuss

brother Paul
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A great question.. This is something I have pondered over a lot.. And I have read many scriptural passages to come up with this understanding.. I will try to keep this short :)

I don't think I can answer the questions without answering why Sabbath was instituted.. It would go back to creation, of course!! Before fall, Adam did not have to do any work.. The only thing he was doing was, being in fellowship with God.. He was "resting".. After fall, he had to work.. He had to plow the fields and toil on the soil.. So God wanted to remind man what he is missing.. And also a promise on what will be restored.. Sabbath rest is the day when man will simply enjoy the presence and fellowship of God and not do any work.. Praising and worshipping God for who he is.. In OT days, people did not have permanent indwelling of Holy Spirit.. So they had to go through the rituals to be made holy.. The ultimate aim of the ceremonial laws was to make the person realize the fallen nature and need for cleansing.. So Sabbath in OT was more ritualistic..

Whereas in NT era, we are cleansed by blood of the Lamb.. Holy Spirit permanently indwells in a believer.. We are sanctified on a daily basis.. So we don't have to look at Sabbath from ritualistic perspective.. We still have to be remembered about the final rest with Lord.. So we are to observe Sabbath in the same spirit.. Doing things which glorify the Lord, worshipping and praising Him for who He is, having fellowship with Jesus Christ..

How has changed between OT and NT because of finished work on cross.. The reason has not changed..
 
ixoye_8 said:
really ???
a) then why can God blot out a name from the Book of Life ..
b) and why does Paul say this ???
Hbr 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Hbr 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Hbr 6:6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
c) if you are going to be a self-appointed teacher, at least don't teach the opposite of scripture ..
Click to expand...
________________________________________________________________

a) You say, "REALLY?"; which seems to imply that the Holy Spirit IS NOT our rest on this earth; and that it ((the Holy Spirit) is only as strong as the Law...but no stronger. I will allow you to first expound on your answer.
But remember, the Holy Spirit will not give us eternal rest on this earth: for everything on this earth is temporal. No, the Holy Spirit is here to give us rest from sin and temptation, but its indwellling is designed to keep us, until the Day of the Lord: "But if the Spirit of him that raised Christ from the dead dwell in you, He that raised Christ from the dead shall also quicken (make alive) your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you."

b) Hb. 6:4-6 __ "It is impossible for those who were once enlightened (repented), tasted of the heavenly gift (known remission of sins)...made partakers of the Holy Spirit ( preached the gospel and operated in one of the gifts of the Spirit)...tasted the good word...and the powers of the world to come (have seen Truth come to pass before their eyes and caught a glimpse of that which awaits true believers)...".
That is what awaits the true believer in this life: we could call them five levels of faith (for want of a better term). Now the one who is called to salvation could stop any any level, and still resume his walk (be saved). But we are not called to permanently stop at any level. And if a man falls away (goes back/commits apostasy) after the fifth level, "...it is impossible to renew them again to repentance...".
You must understand, Beloved Friends, that the Lord has made it extremely easy for us to be saved; but just as extremely difficult for us to be lost. Just as we rejected the whims of the world to be saved, we would have to destroy that which we have built in the Lord and rebuild the foundations of lust and desire!

c) Where in any of my posts did I write that I was a "teacher", or that I exercise any office in the Ministry of the Lord Jesus? I do know Him who has called me to the gospel: and His power. But I rejoice in this: God has written my name in the "Lamb's Book of Life", and no man or woman, can take that away from me.
 
Candelario Mario Villa said:
You must understand, Beloved Friends, that the Lord has made it extremely easy for us to be saved; but just as extremely difficult for us to be lost.
Click to expand...

Mat 7:14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Luk 13:23 And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them,
Luk 13:24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

1Pe 4:18 AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?
 
Beloved Friends: when a person digs in their heels against the Lord, he will find it very difficult to be saved because he will not find the narrow way. However, once the person allows himself to be led by the Holy Spirit, he will quickly find the narrow way, and salvation will be a piece of cake: "...for my my yoke is easy, and my burden is light...".
 
I apologize if my post does not directly address the OP. In my case, in order to understand how the Sabbath must be kept, it is important for me to explain why I keep it.
Brother Paul said:
Sorry but long posts require long responses...please read slowly

The issue of …We see in that for His names sake in Israel, God made a brand new calendar….this for them was to be the beginning of months and that day was the 1ST day of the 1st month…and from that day forward the children of Israel were to follow a calendar not known to the rest of the world, nor even to them hithertofore….from that very chapter on we begin to hear about Sabbaths (says which the Lord had determined to set apart for His purpose and devotion to Him among these people and only these people)….Yes it is part of the covenant agreement with these people (never was insisted on for any other people)…

In De en Moses is reiterating the terms of the covenant (which contains the 4th commandment) the Spirit through Moses shows us that these terms have never been covenanted with any other, not even their own fathers (Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, or even Jacob)…none before these people were bound to keep this agreement. Though some were aware of this because of the story of creation, none were bound nor commanded to “keep the Sabbath” prior to this. The Israelites however were bound to keep all these 10 commandments and the feasts of Passover, and Unleavened Bread (the Passover on the 14th of Nisan, the first day of UB on the 15th and the last day of UB on the 21st were also days of Holy Convocation and Rest) perpetually for all their generations once they entered the covenant at Horeb.

The word Sabbath first appears in Exodus and is not anywhere found in the book of Genesis. Therefore the passage about the 7th day when God rested has no significance regarding a day someone is to keep until Exodus….we are made in His image and should have a day of rest because He foreknew as a result of the fall man would have to work by the sweat of his brow just to eat….it only became a Holy Ordinance for Israel to “keep it” in Exodus.


It is a day blessed by God…Yes indeed it is and I am blessed by it though I attend church (gathering for corporate worship) on the 1st day (after the order of the feast of first fruits upon which He rose overcoming death for our justification, the day He the new hope the eternal rest appeared to His disciples, and the day the Holy Spirit or new eternal life was birthed into those who faithed) and as you pointed out, history shows the early members of His body (because most were either Israelites or proselytes) gathered on the 7th day Sabbath (though nowhere commanded of God in the OT or the NT) and on the 1st or 8th day (we see this even in some of the earliest church writings)…

Jesus and the Apostles did this “as was His custom”, Paul also did this “as was his custom” they also kept the feast of dedication (Hannukah) and wore the tallith as was there custom. A “custom” is a tradition not based on a commandment from God but on the practice developed by the people and as taught by their religious leaders. None of these things are binding on Gentiles ().

The practice of gathering together for corporate worship on the 7th day was a tradition developed during the Babylonian Captivity so people would not forget the Lord or His ordinances and continued when the children of Judah (the first Jews) returned to the land. There is no commandment to do this and nowhere in the OT do the children of Israel (with whom was the very covenant we are discussing) ever do this (gather on the 7th day for corporate worship at the Tabernacle or Temple) both Exodus and Leviticus make it perfectly clear that the Sabbath convocation and rest was to take place in the home and you were not to go far from your place on the 7th day…

tells us “…abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”

says “Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of work; it is a Sabbath unto the LORD in all your dwellings. “

Note these important things…it is “a” Sabbath not “the” Sabbath. Also note “in” (inside of or within) “all” (many, plural) “your” (personal as in each one) “dwellings” (plural as in their homes)…

So having clarified that for the purpose of discussion when we read in the Holy Spirits theopneustos graphae that it is not about a day but about our devotional time and our need for a day of rest then it matters not which day we gather for corporate worship so doing so on the 7th day Sabbath is fine (if that is the tradition you wish to observe) but so is it also fine (in fact more in line with the Torah’s restriction on the Sabbath) to gather together for corporate worship on the 1st day (or 8th day)…

But the OP question was really HOW does one keep the Sabbath not WHY…

In His love

Brother Paul
Click to expand...

Thank you for your thoughtful post. Dude to time I will touch on one point and come back when I have more time. The Jewish calendar, as you may know, is not like the roman calendar where there is floating holidays. The key events were the same day every year. However, the Lunar Calendar was specifically designed to track the feast days, not the weekly 7th day sabbath. How do we know? The bible describes something called a "high day" (), which is when the weekly Sabbath fell on the same day an annual festival. In other words, the Sabbath was "floating" and did not follow the rigid structure of the Jewish Calendar.
Brother Paul said:
Sorry but long posts require long responses...please read slowly

The issue of Exodus 16…We see in Exodus 12:2 that for His names sake in Israel, God made a brand new calendar….this for them was to be the beginning of months and that day was the 1ST day of the 1st month…and from that day forward the children of Israel were to follow a calendar not known to the rest of the world, nor even to them hithertofore….from that very chapter on we begin to hear about Sabbaths (says which the Lord had determined to set apart for His purpose and devotion to Him among these people and only these people)….Yes it is part of the covenant agreement with these people (never was insisted on for any other people)…

In Deuteronomy 5 when Moses is reiterating the terms of the covenant (which contains the 4th commandment) the Spirit through Moses shows us that these terms have never been covenanted with any other, not even their own fathers (Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, or even Jacob)…none before these people were bound to keep this agreement. Though some were aware of this because of the story of creation, none were bound nor commanded to “keep the Sabbath” prior to this. The Israelites however were bound to keep all these 10 commandments and the feasts of Passover, and Unleavened Bread (the Passover on the 14th of Nisan, the first day of UB on the 15th and the last day of UB on the 21st were also days of Holy Convocation and Rest) perpetually for all their generations once they entered the covenant at Horeb.

The word Sabbath first appears in Exodus and is not anywhere found in the book of Genesis. Therefore the passage about the 7th day when God rested has no significance regarding a day someone is to keep until Exodus….we are made in His image and should have a day of rest because He foreknew as a result of the fall man would have to work by the sweat of his brow just to eat….it only became a Holy Ordinance for Israel to “keep it” in Exodus.


It is a day blessed by God…Yes indeed it is and I am blessed by it though I attend church (gathering for corporate worship) on the 1st day (after the order of the feast of first fruits upon which He rose overcoming death for our justification, the day He the new hope the eternal rest appeared to His disciples, and the day the Holy Spirit or new eternal life was birthed into those who faithed) and as you pointed out, history shows the early members of His body (because most were either Israelites or proselytes) gathered on the 7th day Sabbath (though nowhere commanded of God in the OT or the NT) and on the 1st or 8th day (we see this even in some of the earliest church writings)…

Jesus and the Apostles did this “as was His custom”, Paul also did this “as was his custom” they also kept the feast of dedication (Hannukah) and wore the tallith as was there custom. A “custom” is a tradition not based on a commandment from God but on the practice developed by the people and as taught by their religious leaders. None of these things are binding on Gentiles (Acts 15:5-20).

The practice of gathering together for corporate worship on the 7th day was a tradition developed during the Babylonian Captivity so people would not forget the Lord or His ordinances and continued when the children of Judah (the first Jews) returned to the land. There is no commandment to do this and nowhere in the OT do the children of Israel (with whom was the very covenant we are discussing) ever do this (gather on the 7th day for corporate worship at the Tabernacle or Temple) both Exodus and Leviticus make it perfectly clear that the Sabbath convocation and rest was to take place in the home and you were not to go far from your place on the 7th day…

Exodus 16:29 tells us “…abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”

Leviticus 23:3 says “Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of work; it is a Sabbath unto the LORD in all your dwellings. “

Note these important things…it is “a” Sabbath not “the” Sabbath. Also note “in” (inside of or within) “all” (many, plural) “your” (personal as in each one) “dwellings” (plural as in their homes)…

So having clarified that for the purpose of discussion when we read in the Holy Spirits theopneustos graphae that it is not about a day but about our devotional time and our need for a day of rest then it matters not which day we gather for corporate worship so doing so on the 7th day Sabbath is fine (if that is the tradition you wish to observe) but so is it also fine (in fact more in line with the Torah’s restriction on the Sabbath) to gather together for corporate worship on the 1st day (or 8th day)…

But the OP question was really HOW does one keep the Sabbath not WHY…

In His love

Brother Paul
Click to expand...


To clarify your first point in regards to the Jewish calendar, are you saying that if the weekly Sabbath was applicable from creation, then why does the Jewish calendar negate that since the Jews would then be using the phases of the moon to determine what day is the Sabbath was?

God Bless,
MoG
 
In other words, the Sabbath was "floating" and did not follow the rigid structure of the Jewish Calendar.

No it wasn’t (floating)…from Exodus 12 (day one of the beginning of all months) the counting starts…and on day 7 was the Sabbath and every 7th day thereafter…(in fact this may not even have been the same day God ceased and desisted)

To clarify your first point in regards to the Jewish calendar, are you saying that if the weekly Sabbath was applicable from creation, then why does the Jewish calendar negate that since the Jews would then be using the phases of the moon to determine what day is the Sabbath was?

No I am proving by my post that the keeping of the 7th day was not an ordinance for man prior to this. The Genesis reference (if you read free of the denominational interpretation) says nothing of what man is to do but speaks of what God did (the word Shaw-bath means He ceased and desisted from His creating and making and that is all it means). So there is no “if” that’s man’s imposition into the word (an Add to)….the weekly Sabbath was NOT applicable for man from creation at all. Four 7 day weeks (every forth 7th day) equals 28 days (the phases of one lunar cycle) but that has NOTHING to do with it that was how you were taught to try and refute or confuse the truth.

Before Exodus = no Sabbath observance commanded or observed by mankind

Sabbath observance commanded = the covenant YHVH made with the children of Israel (not even with their fathers) is their covenant perpetually

Sabbath observance is NOT a commandment regarding the day of the week we are to gather for corporate worship at some synagogue (which only existed after Babylon) or the Tabernacle or the Temple ad was never observed in this way even by the covenant people (just the true Biblically demonstrated fact)

Jesus and the Apostles went to synagogue (though contrary to Torah) as was their custom (tradition of men) that was developed during the Babylonian Captivity…it is not the commandment of God (though it does not matter what day we keep, the church from the beginning met on the 1st day for corporate worship)...Jesus and the apostles also kept the feast of dedication and wore a tallith for prayer as was their custom (so if this practice is the reason we also should, then do you also do these?)

The New Covenant makes no command to keep the Sabbath or that going to synagogue or church on that day is the “right” or “correct” day…

In His love

Brother Paul
 
Brother Paul said:
In other words, the Sabbath was "floating" and did not follow the rigid structure of the Jewish Calendar.

No it wasn’t (floating)…from Exodus 12 (day one of the beginning of all months) the counting starts…and on day 7 was the Sabbath and every 7th day thereafter…(in fact this may not even have been the same day God ceased and desisted)

To clarify your first point in regards to the Jewish calendar, are you saying that if the weekly Sabbath was applicable from creation, then why does the Jewish calendar negate that since the Jews would then be using the phases of the moon to determine what day is the Sabbath was?

No I am proving by my post that the keeping of the 7th day was not an ordinance for man prior to this. The Genesis reference (if you read free of the denominational interpretation) says nothing of what man is to do but speaks of what God did (the word Shaw-bath means He ceased and desisted from His creating and making and that is all it means). So there is no “if” that’s man’s imposition into the word (an Add to)….the weekly Sabbath was NOT applicable for man from creation at all. Four 7 day weeks (every forth 7th day) equals 28 days (the phases of one lunar cycle) but that has NOTHING to do with it that was how you were taught to try and refute or confuse the truth.

Before Exodus = no Sabbath observance commanded or observed by mankind

Sabbath observance commanded = the covenant YHVH made with the children of Israel (not even with their fathers) is their covenant perpetually

Sabbath observance is NOT a commandment regarding the day of the week we are to gather for corporate worship at some synagogue (which only existed after Babylon) or the Tabernacle or the Temple ad was never observed in this way even by the covenant people (just the true Biblically demonstrated fact)

Jesus and the Apostles went to synagogue (though contrary to Torah) as was their custom (tradition of men) that was developed during the Babylonian Captivity…it is not the commandment of God (though it does not matter what day we keep, the church from the beginning met on the 1st day for corporate worship)...Jesus and the apostles also kept the feast of dedication and wore a tallith for prayer as was their custom (so if this practice is the reason we also should, then do you also do these?)

The New Covenant makes no command to keep the Sabbath or that going to synagogue or church on that day is the “right” or “correct” day…

In His love

Brother Paul
Click to expand...

Please disregard the first half the comment. I realized as I was typing it it was not all accurate and decided NOT to post it. However, the way this site is set up it saved my draft and posted it anyway. The later question is what I wanted you to comment on.
 
Man-ofGod said:
Please disregard the first half the comment. I realized as I was typing it it was not all accurate and decided NOT to post it. However, the way this site is set up it saved my draft and posted it anyway. The later question is what I wanted you to comment on.
Click to expand...

No problem bro...read the response to the second part it is very important
 
Brother Paul said:
In other words, the Sabbath was "floating" and did not follow the rigid structure of the Jewish Calendar.

No it wasn’t (floating)…from Exodus 12 (day one of the beginning of all months) the counting starts…and on day 7 was the Sabbath and every 7th day thereafter…(in fact this may not even have been the same day God ceased and desisted)

To clarify your first point in regards to the Jewish calendar, are you saying that if the weekly Sabbath was applicable from creation, then why does the Jewish calendar negate that since the Jews would then be using the phases of the moon to determine what day is the Sabbath was?

No I am proving by my post that the keeping of the 7th day was not an ordinance for man prior to this. The Genesis reference (if you read free of the denominational interpretation) says nothing of what man is to do but speaks of what God did (the word Shaw-bath means He ceased and desisted from His creating and making and that is all it means). So there is no “if” that’s man’s imposition into the word (an Add to)….the weekly Sabbath was NOT applicable for man from creation at all. Four 7 day weeks (every forth 7th day) equals 28 days (the phases of one lunar cycle) but that has NOTHING to do with it that was how you were taught to try and refute or confuse the truth.

Before Exodus = no Sabbath observance commanded or observed by mankind

Sabbath observance commanded = the covenant YHVH made with the children of Israel (not even with their fathers) is their covenant perpetually

Sabbath observance is NOT a commandment regarding the day of the week we are to gather for corporate worship at some synagogue (which only existed after Babylon) or the Tabernacle or the Temple ad was never observed in this way even by the covenant people (just the true Biblically demonstrated fact)

Jesus and the Apostles went to synagogue (though contrary to Torah) as was their custom (tradition of men) that was developed during the Babylonian Captivity…it is not the commandment of God (though it does not matter what day we keep, the church from the beginning met on the 1st day for corporate worship)...Jesus and the apostles also kept the feast of dedication and wore a tallith for prayer as was their custom (so if this practice is the reason we also should, then do you also do these?)

The New Covenant makes no command to keep the Sabbath or that going to synagogue or church on that day is the “right” or “correct” day…

In His love

Brother Paul
Click to expand...

Brother Paul,

Seeing that God is not arbitrary like a dictator but does all things for our benefit, why do you think God made that day Holy?

God Bless,
MoG
 
Man-ofGod said:
Brother Paul,

Seeing that God is not arbitrary like a dictator but does all things for our benefit, why do you think God made that day Holy?

God Bless,
MoG
Click to expand...

Nice attempt at avoiding the issues I pointed out to you but I will not fall for it...or try and second guess God's motives...address the issues pointed out.
 
Brother Paul said:
Nice attempt at avoiding the issues I pointed out to you but I will not fall for it...or try and second guess God's motives...address the issues pointed out.
Click to expand...



?? If you do not know, just be honest. No need to be pragmatic. Its about truth, not winning or losing a "debate." God is always correct, it's perfectly proper to second guess our own ideas or doctrine when they do not line up with scripture and God's character. But be careful to equate that with second guessing God. They are not synonymous.

Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

God Bless,
MoG..
 
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Its about truth, not winning or losing a "debate." God is always correct, it's perfectly proper to second guess our own ideas or doctrine when they do not line up with scripture and God's character.

Indeed and that is exactly what you have done! All the points I made are confirmed by God's word...show me commandment or ordinance in scripture regarding the 7th day Sabbath that says we are to leave our places or homes and gather together on the 7th day Sabbath (being that this is how you observe it)? Now I think it is fine that you do but it is not required of anyone so line up with God's word MoG...it is not about winning a debate, it is about lining up with God's word to all who are a party to the New Covenant.

But be careful to equate that with second guessing God. They are not synonymous.

Indeed they are not and that is why I did no such thing and made it perfectly clear I would not second guess God's motive (which you were baiting me or tempting me to try and do)

Now what about the issues presented in my response...I responded directly and biblically to your implications and questions, now you should at least try to respond directly and biblically to mine...

In His love

brother Paul
 
Brother Paul said:
Its about truth, not winning or losing a "debate." God is always correct, it's perfectly proper to second guess our own ideas or doctrine when they do not line up with scripture and God's character.

Indeed and that is exactly what you have done! All the points I made are confirmed by God's word...show me commandment or ordinance in scripture regarding the 7th day Sabbath that says we are to leave our places or homes and gather together on the 7th day Sabbath (being that this is how you observe it)? Now I think it is fine that you do but it is not required of anyone so line up with God's word MoG...it is not about winning a debate, it is about lining up with God's word to all who are a party to the New Covenant.

But be careful to equate that with second guessing God. They are not synonymous.

Indeed they are not and that is why I did no such thing and made it perfectly clear I would not second guess God's motive (which you were baiting me or tempting me to try and do)

Now what about the issues presented in my response...I responded directly and biblically to your implications and questions, now you should at least try to respond directly and biblically to mine...

In His love

brother Paul
Click to expand...

I promise you I am not. I will do my best to address the points raised. If I am satisfied from scripture that I am in error, I will recant my position. Not until then though.

To me it seemed like you might have outright refused to answer the question which is somewhat different (not trying to be critical). But if I am wrong about that, I apologize. I ask it because it is an important question for me. For my own edication I need to know the answer to that question because I already have formulated my own answer from my studies. I admit, it is a challenging question for anti-sabatarians. But maybe there is a plausible answer that is contrary the conclusions I draw from answering it. Normally we only struggle with "truth" when it conflicts with our previous conceived practices and look for ways around it or to avoid it. But anything that agrees with us is a cinch to accept. I have to be careful not to fall in to that trap. I am sure you do as well at times.

God Bless you,
MoG
 
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