How is the development of morality a sin?

really?
so I wonder then, maybe lions and tigers would have been eating carrots then, maybe?

do you think animals go to heaven? or is it just us?
Death never entered creation until Adam and Eve sinned. Romans chapters 5&8.
Jesus became man to redeem man and man's kingdom. I am not sure what it all entails but...

Romans 8:19-23 ESV
[19] For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. [20] For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope [21] that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. [22] For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. [23] And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
 

Via dolarossa

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Death never entered creation until Adam and Eve sinned. Romans chapters 5&8.
Jesus became man to redeem man and man's kingdom. I am not sure what it all entails but...

Romans 8:19-23 ESV
[19] For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. [20] For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope [21] that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. [22] For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. [23] And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
who are the sons of God/
is it those nephilim folk?
 

Garee

Account Closed
They were naked already, but they weren't ashamed of it, as they didn't even know they were naked. But after eating the fruit, they saw they were naked and were ashamed.

It's like a baby doesn't know that its naked and needs to be clothed when its born and has no reason to be ashamed of not wearing any.
If we don't know it's anything to be ashamed of, we would have probably all walked around naked in the garden and not thought anything of it.

There IS actually a naked gardening day where gardeners garden in the nude. Personally I don't walk round naked in my garden but I guess I would if nobody was looking at me weird and there were no prickles and it was a beautiful garden that was safe! lol

I have heard some people comment that they were clothed in God's glory before that, I am supposing the entire earth had God's glory, like a mist or a steam or dew or something that made everything beautiful all the time. Recall it never even rained before the flood so they didn't need anything like raincoats and it wasn't extremely cold or hot - they were walking in the shade of trees.
Good example using a baby

I would have to agree seeing flesh the now corrupted was more of the reuslt of the loss of the presence of His glory . When it departed the beginning of( day four ) death began.
 
It would appear a change came when the glory of God departed. In one way food is for the belly and the belly for food. Both are shown as perishing.in the new order.

Previously before the glory departed, God said do not to eat the fruit lest we die. It would appear like the time with the Son of man, Jesus when questioned by the apostles as to why Jesus did not eat literal food. Jesus referred doing the unseen will of the father eating meat the power needed to accomplish the will of another.

He covered them in flesh the glory having been departed .They could see they were naked .They hid that nakedness with a fig leaf .It represents the healing of the nations. The whole matter had to do with the departed glory.

Some say God killed a lamb. In the new order his glory again will be the light then there will be no more night forever more for children of light .

I wish I had the ability to understand what it is that you are trying to say.

Now, allow me to correct your understanding. God did not say as you posted......", God said do not to eat the fruit lest we die. "

God actually said in Gen. 2:17.......
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

"EVE"
is the one who said......."Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, LEST YE DIE".

Eve CHANGED to Word of God to make it more acceptable to her at that time. This is the 1st example in the Bible that shows how changing the Word of God will lead to heresy and false teaching.

AFTER Adam and Eve disobeyed God they were removed from the Garden of Edan and the glory of God departed because they had sinned and broken fellowship with God.

Genesis 3:24.........
"So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Now you posted this.............
" Jesus when questioned by the apostles as to why Jesus did not eat literal food. "

Will you please post the Scriptures which state and support your comment". I just do not seem to be able to remember such a teaching so I would appreciate your posting those Scriptures for me.


Then you said.............
"He covered them in flesh the glory having been departed".

Are you saying that Adam and Eve were "spiritual beings" before their sin and THEN God clothed them in HUMAN flesh because of their sin/

Again.....please post the Bible Scriptures that support your comment.


Then we have this............
"Some say God killed a lamb."

I have never heard that one. Lambs, maybe but that is an assumption based on what WE want.

Genesis 3:21............
"Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them."

"Lord God made coats of skin" = presupposes the DEATH of an animal which is the 1st example of Substitutionary Atonement in the Bible.
God killed and innocent animal which means the shedding of blood to cover the "Shame" = Sin of Adam and Eve.

When you follow up and post those Scriptures I asked you for, please use the KJV or the ESV so that we can be on the same page and eliminate any confusion.

As always.....thanks in advance and may God bless you.
 

Garee

Account Closed
I wish I had the ability to understand what it is that you are trying to say.

Now, allow me to correct your understanding. God did not say as you posted......", God said do not to eat the fruit lest we die. "

God actually said in Gen. 2:17.......
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

"EVE"
is the one who said......."Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, LEST YE DIE".

Eve CHANGED to Word of God to make it more acceptable to her at that time. This is the 1st example in the Bible that shows how changing the Word of God will lead to heresy and false teaching.

Thanks for the reply .

I wish the same. I do not think anyone desires to be misunderstood. Sorry I wish I did stay in school the last year.

I agree Eve added to the word

Now you posted this.............
" Jesus when questioned by the apostles as to why Jesus did not eat literal food. "

Will you please post the Scriptures which state and support your comment". I just do not seem to be able to remember such a teaching so I would appreciate your posting those Scriptures for me.

It I beleive is shown in a parable below. The gospel meaning was hid from the apostles.

John 4:33-35 King James Version (KJV) Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

Meat the power to do the will of one not seen .

Look to the field white already to harvest as the source of bread .Bread is used as a metaphor to represent the word of God . The Pharisee could not be part of the power the mystery hid.the understanding was hidden

Jesus taught them. . it’s not what goes into a man that defiles them it what comes out draught that shows that iteral bread cannot enter ones heart and make it soft

Matthew 15:16-18 King James Version (KJV)And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

I think Job 23 builds on that understanding so a person can find the meaning of the parable in mind

Job 23: 12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

Then you said.............
"He covered them in flesh the glory having been departed".

Are you saying that Adam and Eve were "spiritual beings" before their sin and THEN God clothed them in HUMAN flesh because of their sin/

Again.....please post the Bible Scriptures that support your comment.

That was my opinion. When the glow disappeared the details without the light of God's glory darkness was made manifest (death) .Things became private.they lost virtue .

it would seem to emphasize the point God leaves two withnesses stating his face shone

Exodus 34:28-30 King James Version (KJV) And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone ; and they were afraid to come nigh him..​

 
Thanks for the reply .

I wish the same. I do not think anyone desires to be misunderstood. Sorry I wish I did stay in school the last year.

I agree Eve added to the word



It I beleive is shown in a parable below. The gospel meaning was hid from the apostles.

John 4:33-35 King James Version (KJV) Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

Meat the power to do the will of one not seen .

Look to the field white already to harvest as the source of bread .Bread is used as a metaphor to represent the word of God . The Pharisee could not be part of the power the mystery hid.the understanding was hidden

Jesus taught them. . it’s not what goes into a man that defiles them it what comes out draught that shows that iteral bread cannot enter ones heart and make it soft

Matthew 15:16-18 King James Version (KJV)And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

I think Job 23 builds on that understanding so a person can find the meaning of the parable in mind

Job 23: 12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:



That was my opinion. When the glow disappeared the details without the light of God's glory darkness was made manifest (death) .Things became private.they lost virtue .

it would seem to emphasize the point God leaves two withnesses stating his face shone

Exodus 34:28-30 King James Version (KJV) And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone ; and they were afraid to come nigh him..​


I am trying to be a nice as humanly possible my friend. The fact is that you are all over the place and it is really hard to follow your thoughts.

I must say however that your Bible understanding is really, really flawed. I would love to have you in one of my Bible teachings classes!!

Now.....John 4:33-35 King James Version (KJV)...........
" Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.'

THAT has absolutely NOTHING to do with your comment that Jesus did not eat meat! NOTHING!

My meat.—Better, My food, as before (John 4:8). Stongs! = DESIRE!


His great object - the great design of his life - was to do the will of God. He came to that place weary and thirsty, and at the usual time of meals, probably hungry; yet an opportunity of doing good presented itself, and he forgot his fatigue and hunger, and found comfort and joy in doing good - in seeking to save a soul.

That does not in any way translate into......"Jesus did not eat meat"!

Now allow me to ask a straight forward simple yes or no question.......do you believe that there is a Trinity and that Jesus is God in the flesh, the 2nd person of the Trinity?
 
Then you said.............
"He covered them in flesh the glory having been departed".
I asked you this........................

Are you saying that Adam and Eve were "spiritual beings" before their sin and THEN God clothed them in HUMAN flesh because of their sin/

Again.....please post the Bible Scriptures that support your comment.

You responded with...........
"That was my opinion. When the glow disappeared the details without the light of God's glory darkness was made manifest (death) .Things became private.they lost virtue .

it would seem to emphasize the point God leaves two withnesses stating his face shone

Exodus 34:28-30 King James Version (KJV) And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone ; and they were afraid to come nigh him.."​



Now then, Please help me to understand what you just said..............
"That was my opinion. When the glow disappeared the details without the light of God's glory darkness was made manifest (death) .Things became private.they lost virtue .

it would seem to emphasize the point God leaves two withnesses stating his face
shone".

How does that answer my question????? What does that actually even mean??

So again...........Are you saying that Adam and Eve were spiritual beings before they sinned and THEN God clothed them with FLESH.???

That seems to be what you are saying and if that is the case.......what Scripture validates that opinion?
 

Nazarene Servant

Account Closed
Maybe there needs to be a thread called Nephilim and we just hash out
whether they were parables, over-sized people, or indeed half-human, half-demon.
 

Nazarene Servant

Account Closed
I asked you this........................



You responded with...........
"That was my opinion. When the glow disappeared the details without the light of God's glory darkness was made manifest (death) .Things became private.they lost virtue .

it would seem to emphasize the point God leaves two withnesses stating his face shone

Exodus 34:28-30 King James Version (KJV) And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone ; and they were afraid to come nigh him.."​



Now then, Please help me to understand what you just said..............
"That was my opinion. When the glow disappeared the details without the light of God's glory darkness was made manifest (death) .Things became private.they lost virtue .

it would seem to emphasize the point God leaves two withnesses stating his face
shone".

How does that answer my question????? What does that actually even mean??

So again...........Are you saying that Adam and Eve were spiritual beings before they sinned and THEN God clothed them with FLESH.???

That seems to be what you are saying and if that is the case.......what Scripture validates that opinion?
Genesis 3:21 "And the Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them."
This was the first and only shedding of blood at God's hands for the atonement of sin.
 
Last edited:

bobinfaith

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
who are the sons of God/
is it those nephilim folk?

I suggest that you talk with the other moderators on this. I am pretty sure that they are already on pins and needles with what has been said so far on this thread.

If they/You give the nod I am more than will to talk about those "Nephilim" folk, but..........

It's all good. The mods are reading and enjoying this thread. Agreements and disagreements can be healthy in fellowship and Biblical in learning.

Genesis 6

Except for some of the dorky jokes! They're killing me! l😎l!
 
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