Immaculate Conception

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LysanderShapiro said:
Why do you believe the Scriptures are truly inspired by God? Why not the books that haven't been canonized?
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I actually believe there are other books other than the 66 books in the bible. I believe God had a hand in the 66 books that were chosen. I believe He knew we would need those books. It's impossible to put in a single book everything Jesus did, much less the events following Adam and Eve.

However, I believe not all the books outside the bible are of God, but the enemy. I don't know which are good or bad, but I have to research and pray about it.
 
Patricia Dalmadge said:
How will we know what God taught outside of scripture? And how do we know that Mary is born without sin?
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Mary was not born without sin. Mary was chosen by God for this purpose to bear the Son of man Jesus. God uses sinners besides Jesus who was sinless, in HIS daily plans
 
JG27_chili said:
Mary was not born without sin. Mary was chosen by God for this purpose to bear the Son of man Jesus. God uses sinners besides Jesus who was sinless, in HIS daily plans
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I agree brother. But I just wanted to understand why others will believe so even when the scriptures say 'all' have sinned.
 
Patricia Dalmadge said:
I actually believe there are other books other than the 66 books in the bible. I believe God had a hand in the 66 books that were chosen. I believe He knew we would need those books. It's impossible to put in a single book everything Jesus did, much less the events following Adam and Eve.

However, I believe not all the books outside the bible are of God, but the enemy. I don't know which are good or bad, but I have to research and pray about it.
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My question is why do you believe only the books of the Bible are the truly inspired books of God and not the other ones like the book of Thomas, Enoch, etc?

Granted, I believe the books of the Bible are truly inspired by God and not the ones left out of the canon, but why do you believe that? Why those books and not the ones left out?
 
LysanderShapiro said:
My question is why do you believe only the books of the Bible are the truly inspired books of God and not the other ones like the book of Thomas, Enoch, etc?

Granted, I believe the books of the Bible are truly inspired by God and not the ones left out of the canon, but why do you believe that? Why those books and not the ones left out?
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I can't explain it. I just know.... I just sense it? Some books I read outside the bible gave some creepy vibes. I don't know if it's the Holy Spirit. I don't remember which books. But when I read the bible I sense the Lord.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
Well, it's OK if you say you sense it, but why is it OK for you to sense it and not OK for others to sense something different? Both claim it is from the Holy Spirit. So which one is being guided directly?

Shouldn't there be some criteria?
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Hmmm. I can't answer that. I don't know. I believe there are times we think the Lord reveals things to us and it's not Him.
 
Now I'm not suggesting that any Pope past present or future is being addressed here, But I do see a warning about accepting any additions to the word of God as it has been handed to us.
When any Church official delivers a teaching that is not supported by the testimony of two or three witnesses, then it is very suspect.

2Th 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,
2Th 2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
No doubt this bad guy will add to or replace the word of god with his own. What we all need to ask is are any latter additions truly from God or not.
 
MMurphy said:
I don't think anyone is arguing that the Bible should not be believed in. However, understand the Catholic perspective is that the Bible and the consensus of Catholic Bishops both constitute the word of God. Bishops are, in their view, successors of the apostles.
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Then why do they not do the works of apostles? What is their apostolic fruit?
 
Patricia Dalmadge said:
Hmmm. I can't answer that. I don't know. I believe there are times we think the Lord reveals things to us and it's not Him.
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Patricia, you should be aware that the Catholic Church does not believe that bishops and priests can teach contrary to the Bible. Catholic dogma simply holds that the Bible is one source of inspired truth, and sacred tradition is another.

This kind of theology is akin to what is known as Prima Scriptura (which means scripture first). I personally prefer the theologies of the Easter Orthodox Church, which is as old as the Catholic Church, but does not recognize papal infallibility and does not have the legalistic sense of religion that is popular in the west. In their view, the sacred tradition complements the Bible, but doctrine is still based on what the Bible says. The most important source of sacred tradition comes from the first seven ecumenical councils, the first called the council of Nicaea. This is the "Nicene Creed" which is the most widely recited creed in Christianity:
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
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Now read this and tell me that the Holy Spirit does not also speak through sacred tradition? (BTW, the council was called primarily because of heretical priest called Arius who claimed that Jesus was not truly God, and yet he was reading the same Bible as everyone else)
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
But does that mean God didn't't say it? What logic is there in trusting only God's written word and not his other teachings?
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What other teachings? If the Lord wanted us to know what He said, He would have written it down, or let someone else write it down.
Rev 10:3. and called out with a loud voice, like a lion roaring. When he called out, the seven thunders sounded.
Rev 10:4. And when the seven thunders had sounded, I was about to write, but I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Seal up what the seven thunders have said, and do not write it down."

For me, I think that the Lord would not let His Church bumble through history waiting for a latter revelation. Think of the millions who wandered through life without the light of these latter revelations. That is what is illogical.
But I am beginning to think that we are talking about different things here.
 
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MMurphy said:
Gee, that's a tough one... what does the largest charitable organization in the world do...
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Thank you for making my point.(y)(y)(y)

Act 6:1. Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint by the Hellenists arose against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution.
Act 6:2. And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables.
Act 6:3. Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.
Act 6:4. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."
I notice that the word that they were devoting their energies toward was already existent, there is no mention of future revelations.

We are talking about Bishops, not the entire Church...right?
 
calvin said:
What other teachings? If the Lord wanted us to know what He said, He would have written it down, or let someone else write it down.
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If you think for a moment that something written down can't be changed over time, think again. What God speaks and we learn through church teachings are every bit as salient and important as what we have in scripture. It is no more of a leap of faith to believe the teachings and traditions which were handed down than it is to believe that the written words of the Bible were divinely inspired.
 
calvin said:
Thank you for making my point.(y)(y)(y)

Act 6:1. Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint by the Hellenists arose against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution.
Act 6:2. And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables.
Act 6:3. Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.
Act 6:4. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."
I notice that the word that they were devoting their energies toward was already existent, there is no mention of future revelations.

We are talking about Bishops, not the entire Church...right?
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Whatever, if you want to give up works of charity to go preach your infallible magestrium go for it.

Personally, I'd rather be in the faith of St. Mother Teresa, not the Westburo Baptist Church.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
If you think for a moment that something written down can't be changed over time, think again. What God speaks and we learn through church teachings are every bit as salient and important as what we have in scripture. It is no more of a leap of faith to believe the teachings and traditions which were handed down than it is to believe that the written words of the Bible were divinely inspired.
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For me and for millions of others it would be a massive leap in faith.
The Lord our God does not change, neither does His word. When He told Eve that He would greatly increase her birth pains, that is still true today.
 
MMurphy said:
Whatever, if you want to give up works of charity to go preach your infallible magestrium go for it.

Personally, I'd rather be in the faith of St. Mother Teresa, not the Westburo Baptist Church.
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Magestrium? Me? nah you got the wrong take on things.
Also we do not have the Westburo Church up here in Australia. They would be run out of town quick smart.
My point was/is simply that if someone wants to fly the "I'm an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ" flag, fine, OK, so show us fruit becoming of an apostle. And the fruit of an apostle is not raising money for the poor and running soup kitchens. These things are important, but not the work of an apostle as the passage from Acts clearly shows.
Sorry to say it, but you reply seems to be very immature. Please stick to the issues, as we all should, we should get back to Mary and her need for deliverance from sin.....or not.
 
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