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"hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord" - Bible verse

I interpret this as the man in this verse was a Christian, because the part that says "so that his spirit may be saved." And I think it's safe to assume that only a Christian can be saved.

So can a Christian be overtaken by Satan? This verse says "hand this man over to Satan." Same thing as being taken over right?
 
Euphemia said:
Did Judas live long enough to have the blood of Christ applied to his sins? I don't believe Judas had salvation. He is called "the son of perdition."

John 17:12 (NLT)
During my time here, I protected them by the power of the name you gave me. I guarded them so that not one was lost, except the one headed for destruction, as the Scriptures foretold.
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If we are saved by faith alone because of Christ, BUT those who lived before Christ died and had no chance, would this be Godly mercy? Not at all! This is why in 1 Peter 3:18-21, we see that Christ made proclamation to the imprisoned and disobedient spirits.
 
Where is the Messiah said:
"hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord" - Bible verse

I interpret this as the man in this verse was a Christian, because the part that says "so that his spirit may be saved." And I think it's safe to assume that only a Christian can be saved.

So can a Christian be overtaken by Satan? This verse says "hand this man over to Satan." Same thing as being taken over right?
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Read it in context...and the man was restored. yes if a Spirit filled believer continues in sexual perversion they will suffer at the hands of satan...that don't mean they are possessed and controlled by satan.
 
Mitspa said:
This person had the Holy Spirit...does anyone really believe that Hitler was born-again?
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I don't believe Hitler was a Christian, in my humble opinion. But Euphemia said "If hitler was a Christian, he would not have been over taken by Satan to do the things he did."

So she was hypothetically speaking about him being a Christian, and I believe her main point was that a Christian would not have been overtaken by Satan.

The verse I presented clearly shows a Christian being overtaken by Satan.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
If we are saved by faith alone because of Christ, BUT those who lived before Christ died and had no chance, would this be Godly mercy? Not at all! This is why in 1 Peter 3:18-21, we see that Christ made proclamation to the imprisoned and disobedient spirits.
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We don't decide what is "Godly" mercy...God does..and the covenant of faith was in effect since the beginning...
 
Mitspa said:
Read it in context...and the man was restored. yes if a Spirit filled believer continues in sexual perversion they will suffer at the hands of satan...that don't mean they are possessed and controlled by satan.
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Read my post in context. I didn't say anything about possessed. I said being handed over to satan, and being overtaken are the same.

But we can get into what you are talking about also..

You say the man was restored in the passage. Not in the flesh.

"hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord."
 
Where is the Messiah said:
I don't believe Hitler was a Christian, in my humble opinion. But Euphemia said "If hitler was a Christian, he would not have been over taken by Satan to do the things he did."

So she was hypothetically speaking about him being a Christian, and I believe her main point was that a Christian would not have been overtaken by Satan.

The verse I presented clearly shows a Christian being overtaken by Satan.
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Well It don't mean what you are trying to make it mean, it don't mean to be under satans control as hitler clearly was, it means that Gods protection as in the Body of Christ was lifted from this man...and he was restored...so I don't see how this could relate to hitler?
 
Mitspa said:
We don't decide what is "Godly" mercy...God does..and the covenant of faith was in effect since the beginning...
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With all due respect, you've missed the point. God made a promise to His people and offered salvation to all who accept His grace.
The argument is if the only requirement is faith, and even those who died before Christ's sacrifice were offered it as expressed in the Scriptures, then why would Judas be excluded if he fit the requirement?

God cannot be logical and illogical at the same time, nor is He capable of breaking promises. This was something St. Polycarp wrote about in one of his letters in the 1st century.
 
Where is the Messiah said:
Read my post in context. I didn't say anything about possessed. I said being handed over to satan, and being overtaken are the same.

But we can get into what you are talking about also..

You say the man was restored in the passage. Not in the flesh.

"hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord."
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No Paul had him restored to the communion and protection of the Church in his next epistle to the Cornith church.
 
Mitspa said:
Well It don't mean what you are trying to make it mean, it don't mean to be under satans control as hitler clearly was, it means that Gods protection as in the Body of Christ was lifted from this man...and he was restored...so I don't see how this could relate to hitler?
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Just explain this part then

"hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh"
 
Where is the Messiah said:
How do you interpret the scripture? "hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord" - Bible verse
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That passage is an instruction to the churches to deal harshly with an unsaved person who is actually a part of a local church who is openly sinning. We are called to remove such a person from us so that he will hopefully come face to face with his errant ways and experience the destructive force of his sin and deception, and doing so, will come once and for all into fellowship with the Lord and His people.

This is about church discipline. We have wheat and tares mingling together, and this is how we deal with it when sin like this is detected.

Why do you pose the question? Surely you do not think everyone in a particular church is saved?
 
LysanderShapiro said:
With all due respect, you've missed the point. God made a promise to His people and offered salvation to all who accept His grace.
The argument is if the only requirement is faith, and even those who died before Christ's sacrifice were offered it as expressed in the Scriptures, then why would Judas be excluded if he fit the requirement?

God cannot be logical and illogical at the same time, nor is He capable of breaking promises. This was something St. Polycarp wrote about in one of his letters in the 1st century.
Click to expand...
Well God does not break promises, but very few men have a good understanding of how his promises work and the condition that He alone decides the salvation of a man.
 
Euphemia said:
That passage is an instruction to the churches to deal harshly with an unsaved person who is actually a part of a local church who is openly sinning. We are called to remove such a person from us so that he will hopefully come face to face with his errant ways and experience the destructive force of his sin and deception, and doing so, will come once and for all into fellowship with the Lord and His people.

This is about church discipline. We have wheat and tares mingling together, and this is how we deal with it when sin like this is detected.
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That passage was about an unsaved person? oooooh okay. I thought it said something about him being saved on the day of the Lord.
 
Mitspa said:
Well God does not break promises, but very few men have a good understanding of how his promises work and the condition that He alone decides the salvation of a man.
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I agree that He alone judges the living and the dead, but that's my point. Did Judas not receive salvation due to his deeds or was it because Judas died before Jesus did? And if it is the latter, then what of the imprisoned and disobedient souls who died before Jesus may have even existed?
 
LysanderShapiro said:
With all due respect, you've missed the point. God made a promise to His people and offered salvation to all who accept His grace.
The argument is if the only requirement is faith, and even those who died before Christ's sacrifice were offered it as expressed in the Scriptures, then why would Judas be excluded if he fit the requirement?

God cannot be logical and illogical at the same time, nor is He capable of breaking promises. This was something St. Polycarp wrote about in one of his letters in the 1st century.
Click to expand...

God can be illogical a lot. It just goes to prove our gray matter is pretty dim---we cannot rely on it for very much.
 
2Co 2:4 For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.
5 ¶ But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.
6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
 
Where is the Messiah said:
I don't believe Hitler was a Christian, in my humble opinion. But Euphemia said "If hitler was a Christian, he would not have been over taken by Satan to do the things he did."

So she was hypothetically speaking about him being a Christian, and I believe her main point was that a Christian would not have been overtaken by Satan.

The verse I presented clearly shows a Christian being overtaken by Satan.
Click to expand...

Pardon me, but I did not "hypothetically" or otherwise consider that Hitler was a Christian in any sense. Don't declare what isn't there.

Your verse was not about anyone being overtaken by Satan. It is about someone needing severe disciplinary action for serious unrepentant sexual sin.

There is nothing in scripture that remotely suggests that the offender was born again. Even if he was a believer, he needed to be cast out to come into full realization that he was completely acting outside the boundaries of the faith walk. this kind of discipline is carried out in all good churches---even mine---and it works wonders in the lives of many believers, shaking them up enough to wake up and turn back to Christ. Others continue to walk away, but still doesn't mean they are or aren't saved. If they are, then God will bring them back in due time. If not, then they will continue in their evil ways until they realize that the truth was in front of them all along.

In this case in scripture, the man was cast out and was later restored to full fellowship in the local church.
 
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