Is It A Sin To Not Believe In The Trinity Or That Jesus Is God?

I am so confused... Maybe I'm not understanding what you all mean by the Trinity. For those of us who were not taught this theology growing up, it's like learning another language. I still don't understand why people call God the Father and talk about Jesus talking to God and yet Jesus is God. Maybe Jesus didn't want to tell people directly that he was God (I wouldn't know why not), but again I don't understand why he sitting on the right hand of God and didn't return as God in heaven.

I prayed about this tonight, and I hope that God will open my eyes to the truth or to a better understanding of the truth.
 
Look, I know it goes against simple minded humans and our logic of understanding how the Son and God can be One. Again though, I'm asking everyone, if Jesus and the Father are "One" in Triniatrian understanding, then why does he sit at the right hand of God?

Also, please understand that I am not trying to disprove the Trinity; I am actually trying to believe in the Trinity if it is the truth. It's just that I can't, if I don't have more definitive answers. The Scriptures point both ways and many times, you all have to admit that...
 
Lifeasweknowit said:
Look, I know it goes against simple minded humans and our logic of understanding how the Son and God can be One. Again though, I'm asking everyone, if Jesus and the Father are "One" in Triniatrian understanding, then why does he sit at the right hand of God?

Also, please understand that I am not trying to disprove the Trinity; I am actually trying to believe in the Trinity if it is the truth. It's just that I can't, if I don't have more definitive answers. The Scriptures point both ways and many times, you all have to admit that...
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First accept that the bible doesn't contradict itself. We need to take all scripture and then zoom out to see the correct picture.

When I do this, I see them as spiritually one but physically 3. Similar to our earthly parents. You are correct in seeing Jesus sitting next to and speaking to God as being physically separate, duh? ;).

On John 7:16 first accept that Jesus is deity (God the Son). Like God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Then grasp that Jesus is preaching what God the Father wanted and doing His will. Just as God the Holy Spirit is doing the will of God the Father in teaching us about God the Son.
 
Lifeasweknowit said:
I have a question.

If Jesus is God, why does he not return to heaven as God? Why does he sit at the right hand of Him?

Acts 7 (KJV)
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
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Because He is one member of the Trinity. There is a symbology involved with sitting at the right hand of God.
Sitting in that position, He has full authority, just as He told the disciples that He had been given.
It is important to our salvation and to our justification, and to our relationship with God that Jesus remain as He is, because He is the one possible mediator between God and man. He can relate to us, and we can relate to Him. If He had just been absorbed or something we would be left floundering. And more importantly, God can not change His nature. Read the Prayer recorded in John 17. the Son of God always was, so why would He, indeed how could He just evaporate or something.
He can not change His nature.
 
Oh boy i just read your first post before i just read the title,so the first thing that struck me was this nasty Jehovah Witness woman in her 50's and a diehard JW ( not because of your post i didn't know it was about JW's till now).

She was like a wolf waiting to pounce. Any non JW christian that came in the forum she put down and demean them where in the end they would stop posting. Even when the post was about Jesus cause it didn't come from her or the JW bible it was false so would stalk them until they left. Nasty person and not a christian not even close.. We always fought tooth and nail cause i wasn't going to let this person put me down. No matter what she couldn't break me. No way was I going to convert to that demon infested organization.

Her infamous rants were the Trinity is a lie, there is no hell only death. Hell doesn't exist. the 3 wise men were sent by Satan. Jesus is the Son not God and the "nut cracker" unless you join the JW organization you will never get to the Kingdom. :LOL: And the 144000 mention in the bible are all JW's :confused: :LOL:

In the end she was permanently banned from the forums. Good riddance. Just thinking about her gives me the shivers.:eek: Im sure when i look back now she was a demon. You would have to read her post to be convince and im 100% sure any non JW would be.

Dont let yourself lean towards the JW faith, Trust in God always and do not lean on your own understanding.
 
@I_Survived: Definitely not leaning towards their faith, my friend. I left when I was 16 and haven't looked back. However, there are certain things about their beliefs that do make sense or make for a good argument. All I'm doing is seeking clarification and a way to dispute those arguments if I ever come across a JW again.
 
Good on ya and good luck with finding the truth. I found a website once that shows JW beliefs v Non JW beliefs, explains where they got it wrong with bible scripture. Good site but it couldn't shake her no matter what. Problem is i can't remember the web address if i find it will put the link up. And i should note, that over the years apart from that nasty JW i mention i have met some very nice JW's that have showed up at my door from time to time. Not all of them are bad apples.:) They just got the scripture so wrong.
 
Lifeasweknowit said:
I'm pretty sure I had a question posted on here that was deleted...Is that happening Rumely? :eek:
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Do you mean post #39? Or was there another question? The only deleted post I see in this thread was the second post of a double post (same post appearing twice) earlier in the thread. Actually, I thought I had posted something elsewhere last night that I can't seem to find now, but it wouldn't be the first time I hit a wrong button or forgot to hit one.
 
Sorry, I may have thought I posted it and didn't...oh well, I can't remember it now so it must not have been that important. Thank you for responding:)
 
I think the idea of the "Trinity" requires us to exercise our faith...

I too had a hard time dealing with this issue so I understand what you mean.

To paraphrase my Pastor: "if it's not real (the Bible), then what do we have to lose?" Meaning: if the Bible is not truth, then there is no Hell, condemnation, and as the unbelievers would say-religion is a tool for control. But if it is true (and I KNOW it is) think of the ramifications?

I have to exercise my faith so I recall the things that God did in Jesus form on Earth: feeding the multitudes, healing the sick, dumb, deaf and blind, walking on water, controlling the weather, disappearing, casting out demons, RAISING the dead, RESURRECTION, ascension, etc...

My Bible says 'the three are one'-OKAY! We are living in the time of faith-as in our 'generation' will not be given any sign accept that of Jonas- whereas the Son of Man will be in the Earth 3 days and rise again.

Matthew 12:39-40, Luke 11:29-30

Our Faith is foolishness to unbelievers: 1 Corinthians 1:18-27

You might find this interesting:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mB5Aw14e4M&noredirect=1

I know there is a better quality version somewhere on You Tube
 
I am not sure if it was touched on in this thread; but there is also the idea the the Jews-Gods 'chosen people' -are extremely steeped in tradition and lineage. Yes Jesus is God AND man, but to the Jews-the only saw the man part-unless they believed: faith (Of course witnessing miracles in the flesh; you think that would have sealed the deal?)

The Jews cling to Abram/ Abraham as their 'father' and God as their God being separate entities. I believe part of the Trinity concept is the breaking of the idea that Abraham & Moses were somehow 'Holy' of themselves rather than relying on God for salvation. The #1 thing Abraham, Moses, Jacob/ Israel, David, the Judges & Prophets had going for them was OBEDIENCE.

The Jews still wait for their Messiah-a descendent of David's bloodline; they still keep detailed lineage records to this day (side note:wonder if the final "antichrist" might come from that bloodline?).

All that to say this-the 'Son' is of the 'Father'; the paternal line is the recorded bloodline of importance. Since God is the father, (no blood father on Earth) and Mary being the mother (Jewish descent) Jesus is a new creation-still of God from the preexisting spirit, but of man from the chosen bloodline.

In a way it seems a demotion for the spirit of God-BUT there is never a loss of power.

I could go off on the tangent of Noah being 'perfect in his generations' but I think I should probably stop here...
 
Rusty said:
Good post, Dirty.....The only hitch for me is the concept of the Anti-Christ being one man. Other than that, a well thought out expose, IMO.
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Not necessarily as "one man" but part of the unholy trinity-the mocking and copying of the Holy Trinity. If I understand correctly: 1: One world/ unified religion (faith) 2: A singular (one world) government figurehead/ king, and 3: the unholy "spiritual leader" Antichrist/ Satan/ devil.
 
I_Survived_The_Eighties said:
Oh boy i just read your first post before i just read the title,so the first thing that struck me was this nasty Jehovah Witness woman in her 50's and a diehard JW ( not because of your post i didn't know it was about JW's till now).

She was like a wolf waiting to pounce. Any non JW christian that came in the forum she put down and demean them where in the end they would stop posting. Even when the post was about Jesus cause it didn't come from her or the JW bible it was false so would stalk them until they left. Nasty person and not a christian not even close.. We always fought tooth and nail cause i wasn't going to let this person put me down. No matter what she couldn't break me. No way was I going to convert to that demon infested organization.

Her infamous rants were the Trinity is a lie, there is no hell only death. Hell doesn't exist. the 3 wise men were sent by Satan. Jesus is the Son not God and the "nut cracker" unless you join the JW organization you will never get to the Kingdom. :LOL: And the 144000 mention in the bible are all JW's :confused: :LOL:

In the end she was permanently banned from the forums. Good riddance. Just thinking about her gives me the shivers.:eek: Im sure when i look back now she was a demon. You would have to read her post to be convince and im 100% sure any non JW would be.

Dont let yourself lean towards the JW faith, Trust in God always and do not lean on your own understanding.
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My friend.......The Jehovah Witnesses are not Christian in any way at all!
 
Rusty said:
Good post, Dirty.....The only hitch for me is the concept of the Anti-Christ being one man. Other than that, a well thought out expose, IMO.
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Rusty........please consider:

2 Thess. 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

Then in the same chapter verse 4 there is..........

"Who opposeth and exalth himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God showing himself that he is God".

Dosen't Greek grammer here demand that the "he" is singular and refers to a man???
 
Anything pertinent that you would want to know about the anti-Christ is in Daniel.
The "son of perdition". He is also referred to as the "little horn" that speaks blasphemies.

The long and short of it is, he will be a political leader who comes from nowhere essentially,
he will rise through the ranks of world government, murdering 3 potentates along the way,
he will have no interest in women, believe in a "god of forces" (must be a Sith) and will put a statue of himself in the Holy of Holies in the temple in Jerusalem. Once in power he will rule destructively, killing all who oppose him, Christians in particular.
 
Lifeasweknowit said:
Piggybacking off another thread about one who recently left Mormonism, I too have dealt with issues regarding my conversion from a JW to a nondenominational Christian. One primarily being the belief that Jesus is God. I know that many Christians believe this and that many also have a different opinion.

I will get a lot of scriptures about how Jesus said "I and the father are one" and others which I am very familiar with. This still, however, does not explain why God said he "sent his only begotten son" to save us and why Jesus was questioning his father shortly before being crusified. Why would he have a discussion with himself? You can't deny that these scruiptures contradict themselves, as well as many concerning this issue.

One thing for sure is that Jesus is our savior, but I don't think that a single person can say for a fact that Jesus is God, or even that he is just the son of God. There is nothing in the bible that directly points to either...it's up for interpretation.

However, my question is: Do you believe that it is a sin to believe either or if you believe Jesus is your savior?
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Since you where exposed to the JW its only natural to believe what you are exposed to. And since you are exposing yourself to a diffrent set of beliefs now, you may end up with a diffrent set of beliefs. If anything it will just take some time to let go of the old and adopt the new. But is that what you want to do, wouldnt you rather make your own mind up with what you want to believe instead of just exposing yourself to a set of beliefs that have allready been decided for you.

And about the question you asked at the end. I have no answer for that, and I would not even dare to try and give you one.
 
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