Is it right to side with moderate Muslims?

KingJ said:
Good point.

We can judge but not on the level God does. As Jesus says we can know someone by their fruits.

When we judge angels it will be with a resurrected mind / not seeing through a glass darkly.

'The spiritual man judges all things and is judged by none' needs context. As we know that we must restore one another . I guess it is a strong OSAS argument as 'none' would include God.
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Coop said:
The soteriological theory of Jobs salvation is no theory at all or speculation, but the same throughout all of history.. And the same for every sinner born into this world regardless of where you are or what religious background u hold to. And that is, by the free mercy of Gods grace in the righteousness of Christ alone. Salvation and righteousness belongs to God alone. Grace and life is in Christ alone. The book of Job brings out Gods Sovereignty over all creation. His supreme will that directs all things. It properly shows where man belongs, in the dust. It cuts to the heart of mans sinful depravity and destroys mans self righteous pride and will. The book of Job shows how Job, through the brokenness of his own sin, although in rt standing with God, glorified God for His mercy. He was resting in Gods mercy and acknowledged He (God) alone is righteous. This is evidence of a man saved by Gods grace and mercy! And shows how God is Sovereign over Satan, man and all of creation, to glorify Himself. His Holy will stands supreme. And through Jobs calamity, he realized this and was faithful to the end; thanx be to Gods Sovereign mercy and love He chose to show in Job. So where is man for him to boast in anything? The more we created sinful beings seek to credit our desires, actions, works, and will to our acceptance towards God, the further we fall from grace and the righteousness of faith in Christ. Regardless of how sincere a Muslim is, he is still lost and dead in his sin and under Gods wrath. Christ, who is fully God and Supreme creator can only be the assurance of ones despair over their sin.
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You managed not to answer the question.
 
RDKirk said:
You managed not to answer the question.
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How did Job know who God was??? Is that your question u say I didn't answer? The evidence of God is seen through His creation. But to come to know God in salvation is how I explained before. God CHOSE to reveal Himself to Job like He does to all those He saves. There is nothing in a dead guilty sinner that convinces God to save him. It is by grace and always has been. Despair over sin causes one to flee to the mercy of God in Christ..
 
Coop said:
How did Job know who God was??? Is that your question u say I didn't answer? The evidence of God is seen through His creation. But to come to know God in salvation is how I explained before. God CHOSE to reveal Himself to Job like He does to all those He saves. There is nothing in a dead guilty sinner that convinces God to save him. It is by grace and always has been. Despair over sin causes one to flee to the mercy of God in Christ..
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Two questions:

1. Do you think Job is saved?
2. How was Job saved?
 
Coop said:
Yes and explained how already in my previous posts. Do you believe he was saved?
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Okay, I guess that was here where you acknowledged Job's salvation:
He was resting in Gods mercy and acknowledged He (God) alone is righteous. This is evidence of a man saved by Gods grace and mercy! And shows how God is Sovereign over Satan, man and all of creation, to glorify Himself. His Holy will stands supreme. And through Jobs calamity, he realized this and was faithful to the end; thanx be to Gods Sovereign mercy and love He chose to show in Job.
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So, inasmuch as Job was saved, how do you say was he saved not knowing the name of Jesus and not having been baptized? Do you think Job is unique among all men? And if unique, what is the point of giving us this story?
 
RDKirk said:
So, inasmuch as Job was saved, how do you say was he saved not knowing the name of Jesus and not having been baptized? Do you think Job is unique among all men? And if unique, what is the point of giving us this story?
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Unique? Giving what story? If u think there's another means of being justified, explain?!!
 
RDKirk said:
So, inasmuch as Job was saved, how do you say was he saved not knowing the name of Jesus and not having been baptized? Do you think Job is unique among all men? And if unique, what is the point of giving us this story?
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Job 1:1 1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God and shunned evil.


The only people in the bible who are named righteous are men of God. Prior to Jesus, salvation was still acquired through faith, faith in God. Job had faith, Rahab was not a Jew, but she was considered righteous and is part of the lineage of Jesus.
 

What sort of mind do you think we have when it has been "renewed"?
We may not judge angels now because it is not yet the time,even as the Lord did not judge the unclean spirits or those demons who possessed the madman of godarah.
But cast them out.
Paul says it if we are to judge angels should it not be an easy thing to judge in those matters that people were going to the world and to the courts for judgement between each other?
And what then is righteous judgement? If not in part (for we are not God) the righteous judgement of God?
For one would suppose only the righteous can make righteous judgement?
Yet God demands we do for if we don't He will at some point.
For "if we would judge ourselves we would not be judged,(see the repentant thief on the cross)
Did not Paul judge a man and give his body to Satan that his soul might be saved?by God.
In Christ
Gerald.
 
Klub said:
Job 1:1 1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God and shunned evil.


The only people in the bible who are named righteous are men of God. Prior to Jesus, salvation was still acquired through faith, faith in God. Job had faith, Rahab was not a Jew, but she was considered righteous and is part of the lineage of Jesus.
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You will have to rephrase that statement or else seriously reconsider it.
For all men are saved who are saved by faith in Jesus Christ whether in the Old or New Testament.
Either looking forward to the promise or looking back to it of the cross and of God's work through Jesus Christ. "Abraham was counted righteous because he believed"
So too was Able. even Lot was counted righteous but walked by sight and not by faith.If you are his you also are saved by faith in Christ and thus counted righteous.
Whether you be Jew or gentile.

In Christ
Gerald.
 
Job had only HEARD of God, but it was enough to change his life.to the extent that God could point to him as an exemplary servant.
But it was not until he confessed "I have heard of thee,but now mine eyes see the thee:" and knew that his Redeemer liveth.was he truly saved.
Much of the church has only heard of GOD !But do mot know Him as they should.

In Christ
Gerald
 
RDKirk said:
So, inasmuch as Job was saved, how do you say was he saved not knowing the name of Jesus and not having been baptized? Do you think Job is unique among all men? And if unique, what is the point of giving us this story?
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A man is not saved by being baptised.
And is not one name of the Lord "Redeemer"? How then do you say he knew not the Lord when he confessed "my Redeemer liveth"?
For is not one of the prerequisite of being saved that you believe that Jesus rose from the dead?
If you do not know that before you are baptised then you could drown in the baptism and still not be saved,
In Christ
Gerald
 
geralduk said:
You will have to rephrase that statement or else seriously reconsider it.
For all men are saved who are saved by faith in Jesus Christ whether in the Old or New Testament.
Either looking forward to the promise or looking back to it of the cross and of God's work through Jesus Christ. "Abraham was counted righteous because he believed"
So too was Able. even Lot was counted righteous but walked by sight and not by faith.If you are his you also are saved by faith in Christ and thus counted righteous.
Whether you be Jew or gentile.

In Christ
Gerald.
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I don't think I have to rephrase anything? Having faith in God in old testament times is having faith that he would deliver the messiah. Just like I have faith in God that He sent Jesus to take the place of my sins. I never said anything contrary to having faith in Christ.
 
Klub said:
I don't think I have to rephrase anything? Having faith in God in old testament times is having faith that he would deliver the messiah. Just like I have faith in God that He sent Jesus to take the place of my sins. I never said anything contrary to having faith in Christ.
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Having faith in God was having faith in the promise of "the lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world" as was proved by Abel who offered a sacrificed lamb . Moses and the children of Israel who sacrificed a lamb and put the blood on the door posts and lintel.
and the day of atonement/pass over that not only followed the heavenly pattern laid down in the garden of eden , When God sacreficed an animal to COVER their nakedness .
But also the promise of one who would bruise the head of the serpent (fatal) and in the process would have his heel bruised (suffer).
Thus the gospel of Jesus Christ was laid?preached in embryonic form by God in the garden of Eden.

The promise of the messiah without that sacrifice would be pointless as to the salvation of man .But only relevant to the judgment of the whole world in righteousness .,
Abels faith as therefore in the promised " lamb of God that would take away the sins of the world" as much as my faith is in. or yours.
Thus the faith we are talking about is "THE faith that was once and for all delivered to the saints" Even from the beginning .

So perhaps its rephrase it not reconsider it ?

in Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
Having faith in God was having faith in the promise of "the lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world" as was proved by Abel who offered a sacrificed lamb . Moses and the children of Israel who sacrificed a lamb and put the blood on the door posts and lintel.
and the day of atonement/pass over that not only followed the heavenly pattern laid down in the garden of eden , When God sacreficed an animal to COVER their nakedness .
But also the promise of one who would bruise the head of the serpent (fatal) and in the process would have his heel bruised (suffer).
Thus the gospel of Jesus Christ was laid?preached in embryonic form by God in the garden of Eden.

The promise of the messiah without that sacrifice would be pointless as to the salvation of man .But only relevant to the judgment of the whole world in righteousness .,
Abels faith as therefore in the promised " lamb of God that would take away the sins of the world" as much as my faith is in. or yours.
Thus the faith we are talking about is "THE faith that was once and for all delivered to the saints" Even from the beginning .

So perhaps its rephrase it not reconsider it ?

in Christ
gerald
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I'm pretty sure Rahab had little knowledge of the coming messiah when she stepped out in faith and helped the Israelites. But her having faith in God is her acknowledging that she doesn't know everything, but God's way is the right way.

I'm not saying the prophecy of the messiah wasn't established from the beginning, I'm saying the same thing you are, to have faith in the Messiah is the same as having faith in God, and vice versa.
 
RDKirk said:
Just to be sure...we all know James is talking to people who profess Christianity, right?
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Yes definitely. Paul and all the others NT always differentiated between those in church vs those not as opposed to saved vs unsaved.
 
RDKirk said:
Two questions:

1. Do you think Job is saved?
2. How was Job saved?
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Technically, Job was not saved. Nobody was until the cross. But this is silly to jump imho. All those in AB were always destined to be saved. There was no crossing from AB to Hades. Job was definitely en route to AB as were all after God's heart. Even many Jews who were stoned to death just may have made it to AB Psalm 51:17. God has always only expected repentance. Job did this and more. We will all be reporting to him in heaven :).
 
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