Is Jesus "in" The Godhead Or Is The Godhead "in Jesus" ?

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
(Isa 53:10)

Who did it again? Satan has always been subject to God and has no power to do things outside of the Word. He may think He does, but He is a looser.

Jesus name means he Word. God in these Last days sent His .............. His.............. His............. SON to speak the Word.
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Your misreading the first part of John. The second verse goes with it.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
(Joh 1:1-2)

All John was saying is that God is the same as is God and with God and is the same.

Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

The Word was made flesh................ Made trees........... Made everything else the First and only begotten of the Father by the spoken Word coming to pass like the Word did everything else. It speaks how Jesus got here, the only person to be born by the Spoken Word and begotten of God.

We are begotten through the Word, through Jesus.


Jesus said, I only speak what I hear my father say. He did not say I only speak of myself because I am the Word.

God sent his SON, to give the Word in the last days.

It did not say God sent his Word in bible form to speak to us in the last days.......... His SON.......

I thought the thread got closed.

Remember, I am a good one to have in scripture debate when it comes to all the religious junk that floats around here.

Your the blessed.
 
MichaelH said:
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
(Isa 53:10)

Who did it again? Satan has always been subject to God and has no power to do things outside of the Word. He may think He does, but He is a looser.

Jesus name means he Word. God in these Last days sent His .............. His.............. His............. SON to speak the Word.
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Your misreading the first part of John. The second verse goes with it.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
(Joh 1:1-2)

All John was saying is that God is the same as is God and with God and is the same.

Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

The Word was made flesh................ Made trees........... Made everything else the First and only begotten of the Father by the spoken Word coming to pass like the Word did everything else. It speaks how Jesus got here, the only person to be born by the Spoken Word and begotten of God.

We are begotten through the Word, through Jesus.


Jesus said, I only speak what I hear my father say. He did not say I only speak of myself because I am the Word.

God sent his SON, to give the Word in the last days.

It did not say God sent his Word in bible form to speak to us in the last days.......... His SON.......

I thought the thread got closed.

Remember, I am a good one to have in scripture debate when it comes to all the religious junk that floats around here.

Your the blessed.
Click to expand...

You have a lot of scripture correct...
Jn. 1:1-2 __ I am saying the same thing. Jesus called God the Father: and each time the Father spoke, that which He spoke was created.
God magnified the Word above all his NAME because that NAME was greater then Je-hovah in that Je-hovah promised, and Ye-shua fulfilled the promises.
"The Word was made flesh...": took on humanity by clothing itself in a veil of flesh.
YES! We are conceived by (not through) the Word: "Who were conceived (born) NOT of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Jesus (the man conceived in the virgin) listened only to the Father, because the Father's Word (commandment) dwelt in him: "...God (the Word) was IN Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself."
God sent the commandment by the angel to Mary, and conceived Jesus in her womb; God sent Jesus (the son) to be baptized of John, then sent Jesus (the son) to fulfill His mission.
Yes, God now speaks to us through the son, "...by whom also He made the worlds...and upholding all things by the Word of His power...". The son of God is the person who was conceived in Mary: The Word, "...the fullness of the Godhead...", was in Christ; even in the body of Christ: "...the fullness of the Godhead bodily...".
If the thread is closed, the Lord wants me to speak to you!
There is some religious junk: most of it is just a little twisted.
 
OK, I got it........... The word became flesh. It's a matter of semantics I guess.

I can't have one scripture contradiction. If Jesus said I only speak what I hear my father speak. Then to me that throws Modelism or Oneness right out the window.

His name means the Word because He is the Word represented, and sent to us in these last days to speak the Word. Jesus is the Son of God though, Like his Father, King of Kings and fully has dominion on his own given by the Father. That is scripture.

I can have ZERO scripture contradictions and I have to stay consistent in translating the Word. That is my personal rules.

Some thing good translating means that they do so with their doctrine and some Hermeneutics.

we are to compare line upon line. Spiritual with Spiritual....... The Word is Spirit, it is life and health to our flesh.

Nothing in there about some Hermeneutic.

So if someone proves their Oneness theory by saying Jesus said I am one with the Father, which Jesus did say that. Then by consistent translating we being one in Him must also make us the Father by their own consistent translating.

When I see people not being consistent in their translating and understanding. That tells me they are twisting scriptures because not everything perfectly for them to keep what they want to believe. The Word is perfect so they must be error.

This makes it easy to make people look silly who refuse to be consistent in their understanding. So that is How I look at the Word, it all must match perfectly.

Thank you for clearing that up. Being consistent with no scripture contradictions makes one hard to debate with.

Just so you know. I am not trinitarian or Oneness. I would pick trinitarian but then I would need a scripture saying Jesus is the second person of the Godhead and there are none.

Jesus said the Father gave him glory before the foundation of the World. Peter said he was foreordained before the foundation of the Word. In my thinking, God must have had a real son with him before the foundation of the Word and Jesus is not part of some God system, but fully the Son and God on his own.

That is my view based on scriptures and the fact Paul always separated the two.

when we get to be with the Master, I think things will be much more clear though as to who He is and what we are. for John said we don't know what exactly we are but that we will be like Him.

If John did not fully know, then I can assume that a lot of talk is just speculation based on scriptures that we do have.

be blessed.
 
MichaelH said:
OK, I got it........... The word became flesh. It's a matter of semantics I guess.

I can't have one scripture contradiction. If Jesus said I only speak what I hear my father speak. Then to me that throws Modelism or Oneness right out the window.

His name means the Word because He is the Word represented, and sent to us in these last days to speak the Word. Jesus is the Son of God though, Like his Father, King of Kings and fully has dominion on his own given by the Father. That is scripture.

I can have ZERO scripture contradictions and I have to stay consistent in translating the Word. That is my personal rules.

Some thing good translating means that they do so with their doctrine and some Hermeneutics.

we are to compare line upon line. Spiritual with Spiritual....... The Word is Spirit, it is life and health to our flesh.

Nothing in there about some Hermeneutic.

So if someone proves their Oneness theory by saying Jesus said I am one with the Father, which Jesus did say that. Then by consistent translating we being one in Him must also make us the Father by their own consistent translating.

When I see people not being consistent in their translating and understanding. That tells me they are twisting scriptures because not everything perfectly for them to keep what they want to believe. The Word is perfect so they must be error.

This makes it easy to make people look silly who refuse to be consistent in their understanding. So that is How I look at the Word, it all must match perfectly.

Thank you for clearing that up. Being consistent with no scripture contradictions makes one hard to debate with.

Just so you know. I am not trinitarian or Oneness. I would pick trinitarian but then I would need a scripture saying Jesus is the second person of the Godhead and there are none.

Jesus said the Father gave him glory before the foundation of the World. Peter said he was foreordained before the foundation of the Word. In my thinking, God must have had a real son with him before the foundation of the Word and Jesus is not part of some God system, but fully the Son and God on his own.

That is my view based on scriptures and the fact Paul always separated the two.

when we get to be with the Master, I think things will be much more clear though as to who He is and what we are. for John said we don't know what exactly we are but that we will be like Him.

If John did not fully know, then I can assume that a lot of talk is just speculation based on scriptures that we do have.

be blessed.
Click to expand...

I already knew you were not trinitarian, and yes, many things are pure speculation: but not all.
Beloved, many only see Jesus as the veil (body/flesh). We are called to look past the veil (body/flesh): then will we see the Word (God) that was made (clothed) in flesh! We must understand that God has only one NAME: it is "Yah" (Savior); and we are called to know His NAME. YAH, in Je-hovah, is the NAME of promise; while YAH, in Yeshua, is the NAME in which all of God's promises are fulfilled! Je-hovah was the NAME revealed to Moses; but Moses was promised a greater NAME. WHY? It was a NAME that was to fulfill all of God's promises!
When Jesus (the son/the man) spoke, he spoke truth; but when the Word spoke, it was through the son: and it testified of itself as "...the glory that I had with you before the world was." Do you see it? Can you see the that "...in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"? The flesh (the son) was not there at the beginning, but the Word which God used with power to speak all things into existence was there with and in God. And God's desire to have sons and daughters was in the Word, and that desire expressed itself when the Word said, "...a body have you prepared me.
Peace be in you, Beloved.
 
I am sure it will all become more clear when we stand in front of him.

I just see the Father and Son as always being here, in the last Days God reveals his son, and makes him Heir of all things. Might be to simple for most but the Father and Son concept is not alien for earth.

Jesus said, I must be about my Fathers business. Seems to me like the Son came here to Earth with a Mission.

Lumping them into One God just grates me wrong. Jesus is God, but not his Father. To me it denotes family, our family.

however I have scripture and human understanding of these things. The human understanding is what hinders.
 
MichaelH said:
I am sure it will all become more clear when we stand in front of him.

I just see the Father and Son as always being here, in the last Days God reveals his son, and makes him Heir of all things. Might be to simple for most but the Father and Son concept is not alien for earth.

Jesus said, I must be about my Fathers business. Seems to me like the Son came here to Earth with a Mission.

Lumping them into One God just grates me wrong. Jesus is God, but not his Father. To me it denotes family, our family.

however I have scripture and human understanding of these things. The human understanding is what hinders.
Click to expand...

Amen...... Jesus is God........ When we say: Jesus we must realize there are times when we speak of Jesus as a man, about His humanity: He was born, He hungered, He wept, He Died (His flesh).
Or we speak of Jesus as the Great I AM, The Alpha and Omega......This is the eternal One God- The God of Abraham, Issac, and Israel.
We are speaking about the Spirit of God which had NO beginning (unlike the only begotten Son of God)
God was IN Christ reconcilling the world unto Himself. The Father was IN Christ. Now, of course Jesus was God IN flesh -
But, Jesus was more than a man. The humanity of Jesus was definately not His Father......But, the Spirit (Father) that was IN Christ was the Father of the Son (which is God incarnate). He not only fills the universe with His glory, He filled the "body" or flesh of Jesus, as He will fill obedient and hungry souls today.
Jesus as a man was God revealed in the flesh.....The Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world.
John 14:8-10
King James Version (KJV)
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
There are NOT multiple "persons" rather The Father was IN Christ.
1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Our great Creator became our Savior and all God's fullness dwells in Him
 
Last edited:
Brother David said:
Amen...... Jesus is God........ When we say: Jesus we must realize there are times when we speak of Jesus as a man, about His humanity: He was born, He hungered, He wept, He Died (His flesh).
Or we speak of Jesus as the Great I AM, The Alpha and Omega......This is the eternal One God- The God of Abraham, Issac, and Israel.
We are speaking about the Spirit of God which had NO beginning (unlike the only begotten Son of God)
God was IN Christ reconcilling the world unto Himself. The Father was IN Christ. Now, of course Jesus was God IN flesh -
But, Jesus was more than a man. The humanity of Jesus was definately not His Father......But, the Spirit (Father) that was IN Christ was the Father of the Son (which is God incarnate). He not only fills the universe with His glory, He filled the "body" or flesh of Jesus, as He will fill obedient and hungry souls today.
Jesus as a man was God revealed in the flesh.....The Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world.
John 14:8-10
King James Version (KJV)
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
There are NOT multiple "persons" rather The Father was IN Christ.
1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Our great Creator became our Savior and all God's fullness dwells in Him
Click to expand...

I understand David........... However I say Jesus is the Great I AM because he was always with the Father as He stated. So He is God because God is a class, not a person. A Father and Son family and we are in that family.

Like Father, Like Son but Jesus is not 100% His father because he is also Mediator. It takes two to mediate and God is not going back and forth with himself. There is Son there for us.

The Holy Spirit dwells in us but we are not the Father.
We are one in Jesus but we are not the father.

We can't use those scriptures to prove anything unless your trying to prove your also the Father God, Or you admit you don't translate consistently.

If Jesus being one in the father Makes him the Father then us being one in him also makes us the Father.

So, Jesus is God because He is the Son of God. He is not his Father though.

Also, though Jesus was a man on earth and had to use the Holy Spirit like we do, only knew things by the Holy Spirit like we do. He was still the Son of God and God. Who He was did not change a bit, just his ability was conformed to that of a Man.
 
First of all Jesus is MORE than a man ! The Son of God "IS" God incarnate.....God in the flesh.
The Father dwelled in Jesus (when He was in the days of His flesh) The flesh came from the Father's Spirit.
Michael, when you speak of Jesus- you seem to always speak about Him as the Son........Before the incarnation He was God, He manifest Himself in flesh. The flesh was crucified........But, Jesus as God rose Himself up.
He is the same God today as He was yesterday, and He'll be the same God tomarrow.....The God of Abraham, Issac, and Israel.
God is a "Spirit"
John 4:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
 
Brother David said:
First of all Jesus is MORE than a man ! The Son of God "IS" God incarnate.....God in the flesh.
The Father dwelled in Jesus (when He was in the days of His flesh) The flesh came from the Father's Spirit.
Michael, when you speak of Jesus- you seem to always speak about Him as the Son........Before the incarnation He was God, He manifest Himself in flesh. The flesh was crucified........But, Jesus as God rose Himself up.
He is the same God today as He was yesterday, and He'll be the same God tomarrow.....The God of Abraham, Issac, and Israel.
God is a "Spirit"
King James Version (KJV)
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Click to expand...

David, I see him as the Son before the Foundation of the World and well after the Foundation of the World. How else you look at Jesus?

Act_3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Act_4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act_13:30 But God raised him from the dead:

Rom_6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


There are no scriptures that say Jesus rose himself up from the dead. God raised Jesus up from the Dead. The Glory of the Father raised Jesus from the dead.

Those are scriptures.

Eph_1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Which HE Wrought in Christ. There are two parties mentioned here David. Not just one.

You need that verse that says Jesus raised himself up from the dead and that verse is missing.


Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:10

There are Two here David. He and HIS. We don't forget how to add just because we want to believe something that is not even mentioned in scripture.

Now if that messes with your Oneness doctrine don't blame me, Go talk to God about it.
 
Jesus was speaking as the mighty God that He is here:

John 2:19-21
King James Version (KJV)
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Jesus is God Michael.........The flesh didn't raise the flesh !
If you feel better saying God raised Jesus...fine, the Spirit that was within His mortal body ....Jesus had a dual nature.

No, Michael nothing you post could EVER "mess" with (my) Oneness Doctrine.
You are the one that can't produce (your) trinity with Bible.......Where is the WORD trinty in any authorized version of the Bible?
Where did Jesus mention this doctrine and call it by name ? Apostles ?
 
Brother David said:
J

No, Michael nothing you post could EVER "mess" with (my) Oneness Doctrine.
You are the one that can't produce (your) trinity with Bible.......Where is the WORD trinty in any authorized version of the Bible?
Where did Jesus mention this doctrine and call it by name ? Apostles ?
Click to expand...

David, Why do you insist that I am Trinitarian. This is like the 3rd time now you mentioned that. I am not Trinitarian. I said I would be considered a Polytheist.

I believe What Paul said.

Gal_3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

One and One makes Two.

1+1 = 2

Holy Spirit told us, it takes TWO to mediate.

God is not arguing with himself. He is not confused that way.

One Son.............. One Father TWO

It's not that complicated.

For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(1Co 8:5-6)

God is a Class of something David, not a person.

There is ONE God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ.

One + One = 2

How many more scriptures you need David?

I use the KJV.............. It could be your translation is not making simple math clear. I don't know.

I am not Trinitarian!!!!!!

Mark me off your Trinitarian list

Be blessed David, I like a lot of other things you do expound on and say.

Michaelh
 
MichaelH said:
David, Why do you insist that I am Trinitarian. This is like the 3rd time now you mentioned that. I am not Trinitarian. I said I would be considered a Polytheist.
Multiple gods ?? (polytheist) Isn't that like polygamy ?
Let's see here: God in 2 persons, blessed Binity !!
I believe What Paul said.

Gal_3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

One and One makes Two.

1+1 = 2

Holy Spirit told us, it takes TWO to mediate.

God is not arguing with himself. He is not confused that way.

One Son.............. One Father TWO

It's not that complicated.

For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(1Co 8:5-6)

God is a Class of something David, not a person.

There is ONE God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ.

One + One = 2

How many more scriptures you need David?

I use the KJV.............. It could be your translation is not making simple math clear. I don't know.

I am not Trinitarian!!!!!!

Mark me off your Trinitarian list

Be blessed David, I like a lot of other things you do expound on and say.

Michaelh
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top