But can you point to a bible passage that speaks to this? To do this, one has to pull out several verses that does not even speak to a three person Godhead. But again, this is one of the mysteries of God we will not understand in this lifetime.
Jesus Is The Father
- Thread starter Sheila Renae
- Start date
Colossians 2:9--For in Him dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10---And ye are complete in Him, which is the head(Jesus) of all principality and power.
Godhead, or Godhood, is used 3 times in the King James Bible to translate 3 closely-related Greek adjectives of the New Testament , pronounced thee-oss, thee-ot-ace and theh-ot-ace - all of which are based on the Greek word pronounced thee-ohs, which means divinity, or deity. Godhead simply means being God, or as a noun, the God Being.
What Does The Bible Actually Say About The Godhead?
When the apostle Paul spoke before the pagan philosophers of Athens, he explained to them that the Divine Being, or Godhead, was not a lifeless idol, or merely an abstract idea, but an all-powerful living God who created all things - the creation being the incontrovertible proof of the existence of a Creator:
What Does The Bible Actually Say About The Godhead?
"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands ; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed any thing, seeing He giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him, though He be not far from every one of us: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring."
"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead." (Acts 17:24-31 KJV)
And His Name is Jesus Christ
Hello Ryan!
I believe that we have had this conversation before. It is true that the word Trinity is not in the Bible. But Just because the word "trinity" is not in the Bible doesn't mean that the concept is not taught. The word "monotheism" is not in the Bible, yet the Bible teaches it in Isa. 43:10' 44:6-8. The arguement against something because the word is not found makes any critism of it invalid IMO.
The Doctrine of the Trinity is that there is one God who exists simultaneously in three persons. Each is coequal, copowerful, and coeternal with the other. Each person--Father, Son and Holy Spirit--is not the other. Without either there is no God; all make up the one true God. All three share the same nature and position in time.
We could list over 60 examples of the overlaping functions of the Godhead but that is just not possible on this forum.
Allow me to instead just list Three Trinitarian verses:
- Matt. 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,"
- 1 Corth. 12:4- "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons."
- 2 Corth. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
In Matthew it says name, not names. These are titles. The name of God is Jesus
In Acts there are 3 times that it talks of being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
Acts 2:38, Acts 8:16, Acts 19:5
In Romans 6:3 it refers to being baptized into Christ. In Ephesian 4:5 it speaks of one baptism.
Yeshua Bless You
In Acts there are 3 times that it talks of being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
Acts 2:38, Acts 8:16, Acts 19:5
In Romans 6:3 it refers to being baptized into Christ. In Ephesian 4:5 it speaks of one baptism.
Yeshua Bless You
"Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matthew 1:20
Who's the Father? The Father or the Ruach (Holy Spirit)? Are there *two* Fathers in the Trinity?
Who Is The Ruach (Spirit)?
Ruach (Strongs 7307) is the Hebrew word for 'spirit,' it is defined as 'breath' 'air' 'strength' 'wind' 'breeze.' It's Greek equivalent used in Brit Chadasha (new testament) is pneuma also meaning 'the wind' 'to breathe' or 'blow.' (Strongs 4151) Clearly the Ruach is the breath of G-d and can not be a separate person within the godhead. Let's look at its use:
Is Yeshua The Father Or The Son?
Let's look in Scripture, with this famous messianic prophecy:
Mix in trinity doctrine, it should read:
"I and the Father comprise two-thirds of a three person deity."
"He who has seen me has seen one-third of the godhead which is sort of like seeing the Father who is a different one-third of the godhead."
It doesn't work. Yeshua is the Father as well as the Son. No separation or division is mentioned, therefore, no trinity! G-d is One, and only One. He is not a collection of personages. He can manifest Himself in many forms but He is always One.
I don't know why I decided to to even wade into this. Such discussions are usually fruitless and unedifying. Blessings to all. Maybe because Sheila used Yeshua that caught my attention.
Who's the Father? The Father or the Ruach (Holy Spirit)? Are there *two* Fathers in the Trinity?
Who Is The Ruach (Spirit)?
Ruach (Strongs 7307) is the Hebrew word for 'spirit,' it is defined as 'breath' 'air' 'strength' 'wind' 'breeze.' It's Greek equivalent used in Brit Chadasha (new testament) is pneuma also meaning 'the wind' 'to breathe' or 'blow.' (Strongs 4151) Clearly the Ruach is the breath of G-d and can not be a separate person within the godhead. Let's look at its use:
"Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2
"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." 2 Cor 3:17
"For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Yeshua HaMashiach" Philippians 1:19
"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." 1 Cor 15:45
In the above passages the 'spirit' is easily applied to either the "Father" and the "Son." It's not a person in its own right within the godhead -- it is the outward breath and strength of YHVH."Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." 2 Cor 3:17
"For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Yeshua HaMashiach" Philippians 1:19
"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." 1 Cor 15:45
Is Yeshua The Father Or The Son?
Let's look in Scripture, with this famous messianic prophecy:
"For unto us a child is born .., and His Name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty Almighty, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6
Where is the trinity? Did G-d forget that Yeshua was to be only the Son, not the Father? Let's re-word some Scriptural passages to emphasize how the trinity doctrine affects their reading:Yeshua said "I and the Father are One."
This flat out disputes the concept of Yeshua being the 'second person of the trinity' since He is identifying Himself as the Father. Mix in trinity doctrine, it should read:
"I and the Father comprise two-thirds of a three person deity."
Yeshua said
Allow for the trinity doctrine, that would read: "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father."
"He who has seen me has seen one-third of the godhead which is sort of like seeing the Father who is a different one-third of the godhead."
It doesn't work. Yeshua is the Father as well as the Son. No separation or division is mentioned, therefore, no trinity! G-d is One, and only One. He is not a collection of personages. He can manifest Himself in many forms but He is always One.
"Thus saith YHVH, thy Redeemer, and He that formed thee from the womb: I am YHVH, that maketh all things; that stretched forth the heavens alone; that spread abroad the earth by Myself" Isa. 44:24
Above is courtesy of Light of Mashiach MinistriesI don't know why I decided to to even wade into this. Such discussions are usually fruitless and unedifying. Blessings to all. Maybe because Sheila used Yeshua that caught my attention.
Thank you for wading in. Help is always welcome. God is the head, brain and life of His body of believers and His name is Jesus Christ.
Yeshua Bless You and the Lion of Judah roars
Yeshua Bless You and the Lion of Judah roars
Glomung
Account Closed
Regardless of the many arguments based on misapplication of scripture, the fact is that the Trinitarian concept is true.
The very angels themselves say so, the angel who spoke to the children of Fatima described God as Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost
NKJ Version
19 Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,
20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Amen.
Young's Literal translation
19 having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days -- till the full end of the age.'
The very angels themselves say so, the angel who spoke to the children of Fatima described God as Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost
NKJ Version
19 Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,
20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Amen.
Young's Literal translation
19 having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days -- till the full end of the age.'
And what is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? These are titles. Do you know God's name?
Yeshua bless You
Yeshua bless You
Glomung
Account Closed
I am that I am, is the only name that He has ever given us. ALL other references to Him have been titles.
What is a name? In many cultures a name is a title and vice versa. Your point is meaningless.
While on Earth, God the Son went by the name Jesus. What He went by before the incarnation nobody knows.
What is a name? In many cultures a name is a title and vice versa. Your point is meaningless.
While on Earth, God the Son went by the name Jesus. What He went by before the incarnation nobody knows.
YHVH made very clear he wanted his name proclaimed throughout all the nations.
Exodus 3:14-15 Moshe said to God, “Look, when I appear before the people of Isra’el and say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you’; and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what am I to tell them?” 14 God said to Moshe, “Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh [I am/will be what I am/will be],” and added, “Here is what to say to the people of Isra’el: ‘Ehyeh [I Am or I Will Be] has sent me to you.’” 15 God said further to Moshe, “Say this to the people of Isra’el: ‘Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [Adonai], the God of your fathers, the God of Avraham, the God of Yitz’chak and the God of Ya‘akov, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever; this is how I am to be remembered generation after generation.
Exodus 3:14-15 Moshe said to God, “Look, when I appear before the people of Isra’el and say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you’; and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what am I to tell them?” 14 God said to Moshe, “Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh [I am/will be what I am/will be],” and added, “Here is what to say to the people of Isra’el: ‘Ehyeh [I Am or I Will Be] has sent me to you.’” 15 God said further to Moshe, “Say this to the people of Isra’el: ‘Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [Adonai], the God of your fathers, the God of Avraham, the God of Yitz’chak and the God of Ya‘akov, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever; this is how I am to be remembered generation after generation.
Isaiah 49:16--Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
Yeshua Bless You
Yeshua Bless You
Isaiah 25:8-11--......11-And He shall spread forth His hands in the midst of them, as he that swimmeth spreadeth forth his hands to swim: and He shall bring down their pride together with the spoils of their hands
Yeshua Bless You
What I meant was-"God started as a man and transcended" type ideology (Mormonism type religion). Of course I know about the 'person' Jesus Christ....
why did satan test Jesus?
Anyone...I guess I'm wondering why he would try and test God (if Jesus is God according to the Word he is). It confuses me why satan would make jesus question the father.
/head spinning....
8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and h showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."
Why would he say that if it was already his?
11 Then the devil j left Him, and behold, k angels came and ministered to Him.
Why would the angels minister to Jesus? Am I not understanding that word correctly?
8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and h showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."
Why would he say that if it was already his?
11 Then the devil j left Him, and behold, k angels came and ministered to Him.
Why would the angels minister to Jesus? Am I not understanding that word correctly?
Sorry Rusty, this isn't answering my question or making sense to me. The bible says "all the kingdoms of the world and their glory". How do you know that means civilizations?
Your last sentence perplexes me...so is it not Gods world, but Satan, now that sin has taken over? I've never heard that. I thought God was still head honcho and we are just awaiting Jesus's return.
So did Satan doubt Jesus being the son of God?