Legit Question

1Co 13:1 ¶
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.;)
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Without the Holy Spirit, love is only a natural love: which makes the tongue sound like brass or clanging cymbals. Why? It is because the Holy Spirit comes to tame the tongue: and if we allow the Holy Spirit to tame our tongue (it is still within the free will), then the Holy Spirit will surely have ahold of our hearts.
The final spiritual level of a Christian is temperance (self-control). If we can always love and exercise self-control (our tongue), then will we never sound like brass or clanging cymbals!
 
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Without the Holy Spirit, love is only a natural love: which makes the tongue sound like brass or clanging cymbals. Why? It is because the Holy Spirit comes to tame the tongue: and if we allow the Holy Spirit to tame our tongue (it is still within the free will), then the Holy Spirit will surely have ahold of our hearts.
The final spiritual level of a Christian is temperance (self-control). If we can always love and exercise self-control (our tongue), then will we never sound like brass or clanging cymbals!
Good, don't do that then and you will grow and become a strong Christian before the Lord. Im praying and believing for you(y)
 
Good, don't do that then and you will grow and become a strong Christian before the Lord. Im praying and believing for you(y)
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Why would you not want me to express my love while exercising self-control? Did you just exercise self-control? Like that, you mean?
 
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Why would you not want me to express my love while exercising self-control? Did you just exercise self-control? Like that, you mean?
That's my prayer for you and
Yes have it all under control, by the grace of God:D

1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.(y)
 
That's my prayer for you and
Yes have it all under control, by the grace of God:D
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.(y)
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"...and be baptized everyone of you inthe NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is unto you, and unto your children...".
 
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Beloved,
1)
You said that you don't believe in water baptism: this time you said it was "outward" water baptism. The "inner" baptism you seem to believe is inner baptism by the word: is that it?
2) receiving the Holy Spirit is separate from water baptism: you need to read the scriptures I provided: "Except a man be born of teh water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Jesus said, "The words I speak unto you, thy are Spirit ad they are life." So you believe that a man must be born of the Spirit and of the Spirit to enter God's kingdom?
The "...rivers of living water..." refers to the indwelling Holy Spirit: which benefits the hearer of the Gospel.
3) I am not intentionally ignoring your comments: I didn't know they're so important to you. Sit down, cause here goes:
Both people were saved according to the Law, even as the thief on the cross. They were not "saved" under the New Testament because Jesus was still fulfilling the Law, etc., etc., etc. Now, since they lived under the Law, and the Holy Spirit "...was not yet given...", what makes you think the Holy Spirit indwelt in them? Who told you?
Now let me ask you: Do you believe that they, the two subjects in Matt. 9:9-6, and Lk. 7:48-50 _ would reject the Gospel that the Apostle Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost...if they were present? "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized...". Granted, I don't think that everyone that heard the word believed.

Beloved, Walk in the Truth.
Romans 4:1-12 says, "
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:7“Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”
9Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

New testament seal of righteousness:

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 1:13).

The seal if from belief, it is circumcision of the heart by faith.

"No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God" (Romans 2:29).
 
Romans 4:1-12 says, "
It was not after, but before! 11And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
New testament seal of righteousness:
"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 1:13).
The seal if from belief, it is circumcision of the heart by faith.
"No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God" (Romans 2:29).
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Beloved,
What's your story? I was never circumcised, and don't believe in circumcision for salvation. However, you seem (to justify the faith of your denomination) to want to place me among those religions that demand some sort of works in order to be saved...like preachimg the gospel and trying to get people to say the sinners prayer (it's a work).

OK. I used the JW's and Mormons as examples of how you seem operate: They also go all ove the sriptures without touching
the core of the Gospel. You acknowledge your faith in a partial Gospel, and you seem to believe in receiving the Holy Spirit
"by faith " instead of through faith. But, if that is what you want to believe instead of the Gospel...that's your prerogative.

Eph. 1:13 _ is speaking to Christians that actually received the Holy Spirit as the Church did on the Day of Pentecost. Paul is not speaking to believers of a partial gospel; but them that received the full Gospel. I was not only "...born again...", but I was also "...born of the water and of the Spirit." And it was not because you say so; but because the Lord made Himself real in me. So real, in fact, as to be almost tangible.

You wrote; "No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly..." Of what are you trying to teach me...or convince me? A person cannot be a Jew inwardly and reject the Gospel.

The core of the Gospel is:
Matt. 28:18-19; Mk. 16:15-16; Jn. 3:5; Acts 2:38-39; Acts 19:2-6; and I Cor. 15:1-4.
That does not mean thatthe Lord has never called you to repent, and for salvation.

Beloved, Walk in the Light of the Gospel.
 
Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
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Beloved,
What's your story? I was never circumcised, and don't believe in circumcision for salvation. However, you seem (to justify the faith of your denomination) to want to place me among those religions that demand some sort of works in order to be saved...like preachimg the gospel and trying to get people to say the sinners prayer (it's a work).

OK. I used the JW's and Mormons as examples of how you seem operate: They also go all ove the sriptures without touching
the core of the Gospel. You acknowledge your faith in a partial Gospel, and you seem to believe in receiving the Holy Spirit
"by faith " instead of through faith. But, if that is what you want to believe instead of the Gospel...that's your prerogative.

Eph. 1:13 _ is speaking to Christians that actually received the Holy Spirit as the Church did on the Day of Pentecost. Paul is not speaking to believers of a partial gospel; but them that received the full Gospel. I was not only "...born again...", but I was also "...born of the water and of the Spirit." And it was not because you say so; but because the Lord made Himself real in me. So real, in fact, as to be almost tangible.

You wrote; "No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly..." Of what are you trying to teach me...or convince me? A person cannot be a Jew inwardly and reject the Gospel.

The core of the Gospel is:
Matt. 28:18-19; Mk. 16:15-16; Jn. 3:5; Acts 2:38-39; Acts 19:2-6; and I Cor. 15:1-4.
That does not mean thatthe Lord has never called you to repent, and for salvation.

Beloved, Walk in the Light of the Gospel.
Mario my friend,

I am not of any denomination. I was called from inside my mother's womb by God. God raised me and taught me. My earthly family into which I was born were and still are unbelievers. All I ever have known is the true God. God made me to know the gospel and had me read the bible, which when I first touched I knew had true life in it. He gave me many signs among other things from early on.

I was water baptized however, since you want to know. God sent a missionary to where I was staying to baptize me because this was his will. I obeyed, yet I belonged to God long before this ever happened and was hearing the Holy Spirit speaking to me my whole life.

God is my life, the whole purpose of my existence and has always been. I love real truth, the truth and depth that is only in God's Spirit.

What I am trying to teach you is that in his life you would have known that I was not of a denomination and that I was of Him. Are not all believers in one Spirit and in one body?

Water baptism was not the real issue, but the depth and meaning of the true water baptism was. In the inner baptism is the living waters of moment to moment life in Him.

I pray that a deeper manifestation of His reality is revealed to you now.
Olivia
 
Mario my friend,

I am not of any denomination. I was called from inside my mother's womb by God. God raised me and taught me. My earthly family into which I was born were and still are unbelievers. All I ever have known is the true God. God made me to know the gospel and had me read the bible, which when I first touched I knew had true life in it. He gave me many signs among other things from early on.

I was water baptized however, since you want to know. God sent a missionary to where I was staying to baptize me because this was his will. I obeyed, yet I belonged to God long before this ever happened and was hearing the Holy Spirit speaking to me my whole life.

God is my life, the whole purpose of my existence and has always been. I love real truth, the truth and depth that is only in God's Spirit.

What I am trying to teach you is that in his life you would have known that I was not of a denomination and that I was of Him. Are not all believers in one Spirit and in one body?

Water baptism was not the real issue, but the depth and meaning of the true water baptism was. In the inner baptism is the living waters of moment to moment life in Him.

I pray that a deeper manifestation of His reality is revealed to you now.
Olivia
Deep calleth unto deep, like a man who stands at the edge of Gods mighty ocean and hears the many waters and it speaks to part of his heart that would know the things that are hidden from others. It is too bad that one like you Olivia, should have to defend your faith before the uncircumcised at heart, but know that all things are working together for your good, and just as that wicked cain, despised righteous Able, so are we despised before false brethren. If we suffer with Him, we shall reign with Him.
 
Mario my friend,
I am not of any denomination. I was called from inside my mother's womb by God. God raised me and taught me. My earthly family into which I was born were and still are unbelievers. All I ever have known is the true God. God made me to know the gospel and had me read the bible, which when I first touched I knew had true life in it. He gave me many signs among other things from early on.
I was water baptized however, since you want to know. God sent a missionary to where I was staying to baptize me because this was his will. I obeyed, yet I belonged to God long before this ever happened and was hearing the Holy Spirit speaking to me my whole life.
God is my life, the whole purpose of my existence and has always been. I love real truth, the truth and depth that is only in God's Spirit.
What I am trying to teach you is that in his life you would have known that I was not of a denomination and that I was of Him. Are not all believers in one Spirit and in one body?
Water baptism was not the real issue, but the depth and meaning of the true water baptism was. In the inner baptism is the living waters of moment to moment life in Him.
I pray that a deeper manifestation of His reality is revealed to you now.
Olivia
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Beloved,
I cannot, and will not, deny what the Lord is doing in anyone's life: for "...whosoever is begotten of God, loves also them that are begotten of Him." I know that most on this forum have been begotten (conceived) of God; how can anyone deny that? But we are called to "...make your calling and election sure...". All I have asked is the we examine our calling with the Gospel, instead of denominationalism. Many purport that they are non-denominational, but nevertheless preach and teach denominationalism.

There are them that have been called from their mother's womb: and how should we know that? Because the Gospel they have will conform to the Gospel of the Apostles. That is where the truth of the Gospel begins: and all doctrine will also be conformed to it. Doctrine will not contradict or minimize the Gospel of the Lord...nor of His apostles.

Beloved, it is not because I "want to know" whether or not you were baptized: it is because it is essential that a person be baptized "...for the remission of sins...". It is noy I, but the Lord Jesus that said, "He that believes AND is Baptized...". I am not minimizng anyone's faith: I am agreeing with faith, and ushering one to the next element of the Gospel. Faith + obedience = receiving the Promise of the Holy Spirit. I know that some will say that they received the Holy Spirit without baptism,
as Cornelius and his household. I ask: if you really received teh Holy Spirit, "...what does hinder you..."?

Beloved, you say a missionary was sent to baptize you; personally, or other people as well? Then who told you that baptism was unnnecessary? I hope you see the contradiction! Either the missionary or the detractors are in error.

You are teaching something other than the Gospel: but if the calling is from the Lord, you would not be biting at the bit: but we would be speaking "...the same thing...". But as it is, I stand at the core of the Gospel message, and many are teaching from another perspective: one I am familiar with, but it's not the core.

Beloved, Walk in the Light.
 
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Beloved,
I cannot, and will not, deny what the Lord is doing in anyone's life: for "...whosoever is begotten of God, loves also them that are begotten of Him." I know that most on this forum have been begotten (conceived) of God; how can anyone deny that? But we are called to "...make your calling and election sure...". All I have asked is the we examine our calling with the Gospel, instead of denominationalism. Many purport that they are non-denominational, but nevertheless preach and teach denominationalism.

There are them that have been called from their mother's womb: and how should we know that? Because the Gospel they have will conform to the Gospel of the Apostles. That is where the truth of the Gospel begins: and all doctrine will also be conformed to it. Doctrine will not contradict or minimize the Gospel of the Lord...nor of His apostles.

Beloved, it is not because I "want to know" whether or not you were baptized: it is because it is essential that a person be baptized "...for the remission of sins...". It is noy I, but the Lord Jesus that said, "He that believes AND is Baptized...". I am not minimizng anyone's faith: I am agreeing with faith, and ushering one to the next element of the Gospel. Faith + obedience = receiving the Promise of the Holy Spirit. I know that some will say that they received the Holy Spirit without baptism,
as Cornelius and his household. I ask: if you really received teh Holy Spirit, "...what does hinder you..."?

Beloved, you say a missionary was sent to baptize you; personally, or other people as well? Then who told you that baptism was unnnecessary? I hope you see the contradiction! Either the missionary or the detractors are in error.

You are teaching something other than the Gospel: but if the calling is from the Lord, you would not be biting at the bit: but we would be speaking "...the same thing...". But as it is, I stand at the core of the Gospel message, and many are teaching from another perspective: one I am familiar with, but it's not the core.

Beloved, Walk in the Light.

Mario, I will state this one more time and then I will only respond to your points and not you personally as you are stating I am a liar. No one, but God told me anything. Do you understand this Mario? I was taught by God, not a denomination. I do not belong to any denomination. I was the only one baptized. You have my posts to read. I have been very clear in what I wrote. Nevertheless, you keep twisting my words into things I have not said. If you want to discuss something directly with me then you are going to have to stop accusing me from your mind and trust that what I am saying is true.
 
Mario, I will state this one more time and then I will only respond to your points and not you personally as you are stating I am a liar. No one, but God told me anything. Do you understand this Mario? I was taught by God, not a denomination. I do not belong to any denomination. I was the only one baptized. You have my posts to read. I have been very clear in what I wrote. Nevertheless, you keep twisting my words into things I have not said. If you want to discuss something directly with me then you are going to have to stop accusing me from your mind and trust that what I am saying is true.
Have you ever thought that you sound like you are following the teachings of a denomination?
 
Deep calleth unto deep, like a man who stands at the edge of Gods mighty ocean and hears the many waters and it speaks to part of his heart that would know the things that are hidden from others. It is too bad that one like you Olivia, should have to defend your faith before the uncircumcised at heart, but know that all things are working together for your good, and just as that wicked cain, despised righteous Able, so are we despised before false brethren. If we suffer with Him, we shall reign with Him.
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Mitspa: I'll begin at the end of your discourse.

You will not "reign with Him" if you are despised, but if you suffer for righteousness' sake. And you dare to call anyone "false brethren...uncircumcised at heart"; even them that would declare the Gospel? You also hide behind Olivia, so that your contradictions might be overlooked. You are masking your intentions with Olivia's defense. Very clever.

Are you really saying those things deliberately? Do you consider yourself better and more knowledgeable than the apostles of the Lord Jesus? by calling the children of God "uncircumcised at heart" and then comparing them with Cain! Is that the love God has shown you?

Read the posts: no one has condemned any one: except maybe you. Why? Because you refuce to acknowledge the Gospel:
"Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holi Spirit"

Walk in the light, Beloved.
 
Mario, I will state this one more time and then I will only respond to your points and not you personally as you are stating I am a liar. No one, but God told me anything. Do you understand this Mario? I was taught by God, not a denomination. I do not belong to any denomination. I was the only one baptized. You have my posts to read. I have been very clear in what I wrote. Nevertheless, you keep twisting my words into things I have not said. If you want to discuss something directly with me then you are going to have to stop accusing me from your mind and trust that what I am saying is true.
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Beloved Olivia, no one is calling you a liar.
You told me you were baptized: but not that it was only you. But if you say that God has taught you, why are we not speaking the same thing? Why? Maybe bacause we are not at the same level of faith. If you are at a much higher level of faith, then why don't you know about my lower level of faith: the Gospel? I don't understand.

OK. You were called from your mother's womb. Fine. For what purpose? Yes, all believers are of one Spirit and of one body; called "...into the common salvation...": yet not all believers have the same doctrine, and we are not called into the Ministry. Were you called into the Ministry of the Lord?

To reiterate, all true doctrine should conform to the Gospel of the apostles and prophets of the Lord Jesus: it is not the Gospel that conforms to the doctrine! It took me awhile to understand this.

Olivia, is Mitspa your pastor, or teacher? Just curious.

Candelario Mario Villa
 
Have you ever thought that you sound like you are following the teachings of a denomination?
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Nope! If you ever study the denominations, they do not conform to the Gospel of the Lord. That is not to say that they do use the terminology of the Bible: but it's not the same. It all begins with the wrong premise: that the Holy Spirit is contradicting the scriptures by disregarding the offices of "...some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers...".
I struggled with that for awhile, asking God why everyone seemed to use the same words, but have different meanings. Has that ever happened to you? But we seek His will, He hears us. May He always hear you, Beloved.

Walk in the Truth.
 
Just $.02...every "denomination" has its differences but they all claim and use scripture to support their view (some quite plainly misinterpret or fail to consider the whole counsel of God where scriptures teach two sides of one coin)....so I also remain non-denominational and refuse to "join" a particular "Church" because what this means is joining their doctrinal position (which I cannot in all areas)...God's word is the same to everyone but the Spirit through the word speaks to each as individuals to bring us to where He needs us to be (one as a foot, another as a hand, one an eye, another as a mouth, etc., all being different members of THE one body) so He can use us as bridges to differing people each of which are at differing plaes of development and in different conditions.

I live in what was a very tough low income area...I was raised here when it was by far more vile and violent but even today, if a Bill Graham were to go to one of the local hangouts and spoke to young people there on some issue (a great door to bring in Christ) if he perhaps knew one of the kids....not one kid there would respect him or believe him or listen to him and his squeaky clean born with a silver spoon suit wearing persona might even get him beat up...but a Frankie Cruz in his jeans and T-shirt, who was a gang leader, who might use softer swears on occasion, who might drink a beer or have a glass of wine once in a while, would work far more effectively...

IMHO the most important thing we should focus on (and I think this started to happen within the first 200 years after Christ) is what the Spirit has led us all to believe. This is what probably motivated the Apostle's Creed (which is totally Biblical by the way) and maybe later (although now wishing to exclude Arians and Sebellains) the Nicene Creed (also totally supported by scripture...I can show you if you wish)...

It is after all these beliefs which make all of us (regardless of denominations) earn the label "Christian"! From there all other issues are an in house debate....(whether one dips or plunges or pours out...one time or three...literal Bread and wine or Symbolic...pre, mid, or post "Catching up", and so on)

in His love

Paul
 
Just $.02...every "denomination" has its differences but they all claim and use scripture to support their view (some quite plainly misinterpret or fail to consider the whole counsel of God where scriptures teach two sides of one coin)....so I also remain non-denominational and refuse to "join" a particular "Church" because what this means is joining their doctrinal position (which I cannot in all areas)...God's word is the same to everyone but the Spirit through the word speaks to each as individuals to bring us to where He needs us to be (one as a foot, another as a hand, one an eye, another as a mouth, etc., all being different members of THE one body) so He can use us as bridges to differing people each of which are at differing plaes of development and in different conditions.
I live in what was a very tough low income area...I was raised here when it was by far more vile and violent but even today, if a Bill Graham were to go to one of the local hangouts and spoke to young people there on some issue (a great door to bring in Christ) if he perhaps knew one of the kids....not one kid there would respect him or believe him or listen to him and his squeaky clean born with a silver spoon suit wearing persona might even get him beat up...but a Frankie Cruz in his jeans and T-shirt, who was a gang leader, who might use softer swears on occasion, who might drink a beer or have a glass of wine once in a while, would work far more effectively...
IMHO the most important thing we should focus on (and I think this started to happen within the first 200 years after Christ) is what the Spirit has led us all to believe. This is what probably motivated the Apostle's Creed (which is totally Biblical by the way) and maybe later (although now wishing to exclude Arians and Sebellains) the Nicene Creed (also totally supported by scripture...I can show you if you wish)...
It is after all these beliefs which make all of us (regardless of denominations) earn the label "Christian"! From there all other issues are an in house debate....(whether one dips or plunges or pours out...one time or three...literal Bread and wine or Symbolic...pre, mid, or post "Catching up", and so on)in His love Paul
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You had me on the first paragraph: then you lost me with "Frankie Cruz". From there on, you belie your "non-denominationalism", and everything else is worth you getting some change back.

The apostles' creed ( nicene creed) is fine, sans confessing the RCC as THE Church. The beliefs "makes one Christian"? No, it makes one denominational: which makes one a daughter of the RCC!

I'm sorry, you can have all of your $.02 back.
 
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