Liberal Theology?

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23

 

[Musicmaster]

One thing's for sure, in relation to the topic of this thread...when it comes to people, that is:

One of the local church organizations has sheets they hang between Sunday School classes down in their basement. One of my boys learned the hard way how to ferret out the more liberal-minded congregant members in the mix. He recounted to his brother sitting next to him, while eating earlier that week in one of the local burger joints and hearing that song "Pretty Woman." Well, while quietly singing to his brother, and easily heard through the sheet divider, he was overheard by the wrong person singing a portion of that song with his own altered lyrics:

Is that a woman...walking down the street?
Is that a woman...with those hairy feet?...

Oh, my. Someone went berserk from the group in the adjacent group. The tongue lashing he got was...copious in quantity.

Yes, folks, saying anything akin to what can be construed, in any way, as a criticism about even one of the many sins these days that has cultural praise as being virtuous, the most intolerant defenders of the more liberal mindsets are the ones who will rear up and bite the perceived offender. Sometimes the more fearful and timid conservatives will also say something to the alleged offender, to help remind them of their need to remain silent in case they offend the more liberal thinkers.

What's astounding is the acceptance, among so many church-goers, of what clearly is a corruption of the moral absolutes stated within the word of God. The world has infiltrated the institutional model in almost every place. Who among you can say you have no such people in your congregation who are not already, or are right now in the process of being, transformed into angels of darkness for cultural and doctrinal liberalism?

Learning how to deal with such people leads one into difficult terrain. There's no one formula in how to deal with those who have given themselves over to such influences and mindsets. My own half brother will not allow conversations about scriptures or faith. He attends a church organization that stands well grounded in the arena of liberal theology, fully accepting of many things scripture clearly defines as sin. No matter how much one may love those of the more liberal mindset, daring to minister to them is an endeavor whereby one finds himself standing in the middle of a mine field.

MM

 

[Lanolin]

Not sure I get this incident MM.
Why was he singing a secular song in Sunday school, maybe it wasn't even that it was just he was being noisy when he was supposed to be quiet. I don't know.

I would just think people don't really read the Bible straight through and some prefer to pick it to bits. Too much time on their hands perhaps. Or not enough time with God and asking for His wisdom.

We all have differing views on our personal situations, even if you live in the same household people will have different views. Thats just a fact of life. We can't assume that everyone will share our view, but just hope that people understand where we are coming from.

Gods ways are also, not our ways. His ways are higher than ours. So even if we lean left or right, God won't be either because He is from ABOVE.

 

[Musicmaster]

Not sure I get this incident MM.
Why was he singing a secular song in Sunday school, maybe it wasn't even that it was just he was being noisy when he was supposed to be quiet. I don't know.

I would just think people don't really read the Bible straight through and some prefer to pick it to bits. Too much time on their hands perhaps. Or not enough time with God and asking for His wisdom.

We all have differing views on our personal situations, even if you live in the same household people will have different views. Thats just a fact of life. We can't assume that everyone will share our view, but just hope that people understand where we are coming from.

Gods ways are also, not our ways. His ways are higher than ours. So even if we lean left or right, God won't be either because He is from ABOVE.

LN, he was addressing a phenomenon that has moral dynamics in that Sunday school class, where morals are taught from God's word. Men going around dressed like women, and demanding the use of women's bathrooms in the stalls next to your daughters (if you have them), that's a topic for discussion since that's part of the rubber that's meeting the road in the warped world of ours, with our faces rubbed in it all by media, culture and politics all around us. It strikes at the heart of the things learned in Sunday school and in sermons...or rather, those that aren't so far gone down the path of extreme liberalism where the corruptions and evil are called good, and the good evil.

MM

 

[Lanolin]

LN, he was addressing a phenomenon that has moral dynamics in that Sunday school class, where morals are taught from God's word. Men going around dressed like women, and demanding the use of women's bathrooms in the stalls next to your daughters (if you have them), that's a topic for discussion since that's part of the rubber that's meeting the road in the warped world of ours, with our faces rubbed in it all by media, culture and politics all around us. It strikes at the heart of the things learned in Sunday school and in sermons...or rather, those that aren't so far gone down the path of extreme liberalism where the corruptions and evil are called good, and the good evil.

MM

oh you lucky you even have extra toilets most people just need to share.

In sunday schools I imagine there are way more male characters in the Bible than female (I certainly found that the case teaching Bible in Schools) so the females if they wanted a part and there was no female one might have ended up playing a male part. It was no big deal.

 

[Lanolin]

If you had taught or gone to an all girls or all boys school then inevitably you would come up with this. I don't know if I really agree with segregation of sexes. I think there ought to be a balance. But nobody can really balance it out. When you have a baby, you don't get a say whether it's going to be male or female. You can't like drink a magic potion and have your baby come out male (or female) just because you want it to be so.

There is a lot of female infanticide because in some parts of the world females are just not valued.

 

[Major]

One thing's for sure, in relation to the topic of this thread...when it comes to people, that is:

One of the local church organizations has sheets they hang between Sunday School classes down in their basement. One of my boys learned the hard way how to ferret out the more liberal-minded congregant members in the mix. He recounted to his brother sitting next to him, while eating earlier that week in one of the local burger joints and hearing that song "Pretty Woman." Well, while quietly singing to his brother, and easily heard through the sheet divider, he was overheard by the wrong person singing a portion of that song with his own altered lyrics:

Is that a woman...walking down the street?
Is that a woman...with those hairy feet?...

Oh, my. Someone went berserk from the group in the adjacent group. The tongue lashing he got was...copious in quantity.

Yes, folks, saying anything akin to what can be construed, in any way, as a criticism about even one of the many sins these days that has cultural praise as being virtuous, the most intolerant defenders of the more liberal mindsets are the ones who will rear up and bite the perceived offender. Sometimes the more fearful and timid conservatives will also say something to the alleged offender, to help remind them of their need to remain silent in case they offend the more liberal thinkers.

What's astounding is the acceptance, among so many church-goers, of what clearly is a corruption of the moral absolutes stated within the word of God. The world has infiltrated the institutional model in almost every place. Who among you can say you have no such people in your congregation who are not already, or are right now in the process of being, transformed into angels of darkness for cultural and doctrinal liberalism?

Learning how to deal with such people leads one into difficult terrain. There's no one formula in how to deal with those who have given themselves over to such influences and mindsets. My own half brother will not allow conversations about scriptures or faith. He attends a church organization that stands well grounded in the arena of liberal theology, fully accepting of many things scripture clearly defines as sin. No matter how much one may love those of the more liberal mindset, daring to minister to them is an endeavor whereby one finds himself standing in the middle of a mine field.

MM

He may have gotten a talking to.......but boy is that funny!!!!!

I think that may be one of those times when a solo would be in order.

 

[Wan]

Now wheter we like it or not, the words spoken by God in Matthew 7:21-23 are either 100% true or they are 100% a lie..............
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Pardon my ignorance, but why did God say that? Why would he turn away people who did all those things?

 

[Wan]

I have a dear missionary friend who is in Saudi Arabia and he tells me that he has NOT witnessed any great coming to Jesus movement there in that country.

What's his experience as a Christian living in a Muslim country like that?

 

[bobinfaith]

Amen and that is exactly my point.

Maybe "culling" is not the right word but IMHO it seems to me that we are living in the middle of God doing some serious "separation" between born again believers, and religious church members.

Now wheter we like it or not, the words spoken by God in Matthew 7:21-23 are either 100% true or they are 100% a lie..............
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Pardon my ignorance, but why did God say that? Why would he turn away people who did all those things?

Hello Wan;

You ask a good question, the same that others read and ask the same. Jesus is referring to those who did not do.

Think of a believer in Christ (Christian) who shouts "praise the Lord!" or "Lord, Lord" but doesn't help those who are crying and suffering, offer a cup of cold water or hot bowl of soup, give a ride to the doctor or market, or just simply take the time to listen, have a conversation and pray over.

When we do these for the least of these, we do for Jesus. When we don't, Jesus will go to the Father and declare regarding them, I never knew you.

Personally, I love to help those and God knows my capacity but no worries. He always has reinforcements. My prayer is, when Jesus does go to the Father on that day, I pray He will know me. I shudder at the thought if He doesn't.

I hope this helps a little, Wan.

God bless you and your family.

 

[Wan]

Ah I see. So God makes a distinction between Christians who merely talk the talk, and those who walk the walk.

 

[BibleLover]

Pardon my ignorance, but why did God say that? Why would he turn away people who did all those things?

These are people with impure, selfish motives. Their hearts don't really belong to God, and they're trying to use religion as fire insurance.

 

[Major]

What's his experience as a Christian living in a Muslim country like that?

He was born in Saudi Arabia and came to the USA. Was saved, trained in Christian doctrine and chose to return to his native country.

It is very, very challenging. According to his testimony, when anyone utters the name Jesus Christ, they are then guilty and can be exacuted.

 

[Major]

Pardon my ignorance, but why did God say that? Why would he turn away people who did all those things?

What they said they did is not what they did.

We can say anything. What matters is what we do, and who we do it for.

Then on top of that.....anyone can do wonderful, great things to help others. However, if they have never come to Christ by faith and accepted Him as the payment for their sin.......it makes absolutely no difference at all.

 

[Lanolin]

Judas was one prime example. He hung out with Jesus and was outwardly his disciple, but all that time he was stealing money from the treasury. He rebuked Mary for giving Jesus an expensive bottle of perfume and said she should have sold it instead and given the money to the poor. Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.

Sounds like a lot of money to me! Another example was Anais and Sappphira...they SAID they would sell their property and give it all to the church but they actually kept some of it back, so they lied..but made it APPEAR they were doing good.

Or simon the sorcerer trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit with money...(the Holy Spirit is NOT for sale)

All of these examples involved money so it kind of fits that the Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil.

A lot of churches sadly have been infected with this kind of 'prosperity gospel' where the emphasis is on money, and how much the church rakes in, some pastors have even written popular books on how to have a successful ministry - one pretty much blatantly said go to a rich area and spread the gospel there, and then you can make an easy living.
The other thing I noticed in christian literature was that there used to be this movement called 'the shepherding movement' in which pastors would be like the authority over every single detail of their flocks lives. Instead of God, the shepherds would be in place of Him and dictate all those who submitted who had joined. You can't take the place of God in people's lives that's just abusive.

So a lot of people left those kinds of churches. In NZ from time to time we always hear about some abusive sect or other that wouldn't let their members marry or have jobs or they took all their money or something or other and then claim thats what the Bible said (when it didn't). The Bible warned that false teachers and wolves would infiltrate churches and lead people astray so these days people are right to be a bit sceptical of all those different doctrines and teachings that so many churches teach, some of them clearly conflicting and contradicting what Jesus taught.