Love and Forgiveness

[Cturtle]

[QUOTE="eric m williams, post: 400896, member: [/QUOTE]On a side note...
Have you ever considered that, as a whole, God places far less importance on what the sin is. The penalty for all sin is the same, and He only names one as unforgivable.[/QUOTE]

ya know that is a very good point. He would rather us to accept His love and forgiveness for our sins....because that means that we fully accept what Jesus' Blood did for us. We take our eyes off of ourselves and put them on our Savior instead

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

This is the type of studying I am talking about. Everything about it is man devised and scripture tells us His truth is hidden from the world or unsaved or carnal minded which seems to me thast devising a man made way is not going to gain spiritual insight.

the branch of knowledge that deals with interpretation, especially of the Bible or literary texts.

Hermeneutics /hɛrməˈnjuːtɪks/ is the theory of text interpretation, especially the interpretation of biblical texts, wisdom literature, and philosophical texts.

Interpretation of the Bible

Hermeneutics is the science of interpreting what an author has written. In Christian theology, hermeneutics focuses specifically on constructing and discovering the appropriate rules for interpreting the Bible. These methods and principles, however, are often drawn from outside of scripture in historical, literary or other fields. It inevitably involvesexegesis, which is the act of interpreting or explaining the meaning of scripture. The goal in applying the principles of hermeneutics is to "rightly handle the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15), striving to accurately discern the meaning of the text.

Now tell me how this works.
Blessings
Jim

 

[Peter Luke]

I would like very much to hear from all of you about this topic.
How important in our life is walking in love and forgiveness.
Is it something that has to be right now and all the time or when the correct time rolls around...

Hello Jim.
How important in our life is walking in love and forgiveness.
Without forgiveness my life becomes consumed with resentment. My mind is in a revolving door of anger and seeking revenge to quench it. This is pure waste of my energy that could have been used for loving.
Unless I can accept what did/is not going MY way, I will not be able to allow forgiveness in my heart.
Unless I can relate how I too can get things wrong, of be a sinner, I will not be able to have enough compassion for forgiveness.
Is it something that has to be right now and all the time or when the correct time rolls around.
Whenever I have a resentment, I become uncomfortable and tense. Whenever I am forgiving I am relaxed and soft.
Whenever I sense my tension, and sometimes it can take a long while, I get reminded to accept, relate, and let go (faith) of needing it to go MY way to feel okay in life.
I know when I am forgiving, is when I am relaxed, soft, and no longer mulling over my resentments.
My correct time for forgiveness is when I become aware of my fear based tensions.

 

[Abdicate]

I would like very much to hear from all of you about this topic.
How important in our life is walking in love and forgiveness.
Is it something that has to be right now and all the time or when the correct time rolls around.
Any way please let me know how you see this and hey try to make a point and not just a one liner.

Thank You and have a very Blessed day and night or inbetween. What ever it may be for you,
Blessings
Jim

@Chopper brought this up and I replied there http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/the-scriptural-heart.42074/#post-396276 but I also wrote on my blog about this topic of forgiveness: http://abdicate.net/blog/?p=495

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I would like very much to hear from all of you about this topic.
How important in our life is walking in love and forgiveness.
Is it something that has to be right now and all the time or when the correct time rolls around.
Any way please let me know how you see this and hey try to make a point and not just a one liner.

Thank You and have a very Blessed day and night or inbetween. What ever it may be for you,
Blessings
Jim

I am going to combine this with the bible study found here BECAUSE they go together and I believe they should be talked about in the same area.
http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/study-of-mark-11-24-and-scriptures-connected.42358/
Thank You
God Bless You All
Jim

 

[eric m williams]

This is the type of studying I am talking about. Everything about it is man devised and scripture tells us His truth is hidden from the world or unsaved or carnal minded which seems to me thast devising a man made way is not going to gain spiritual insight.

the branch of knowledge that deals with interpretation, especially of the Bible or literary texts.

Hermeneutics /hɛrməˈnjuːtɪks/ is the theory of text interpretation, especially the interpretation of biblical texts, wisdom literature, and philosophical texts.

Interpretation of the Bible

Hermeneutics is the science of interpreting what an author has written. In Christian theology, hermeneutics focuses specifically on constructing and discovering the appropriate rules for interpreting the Bible. These methods and principles, however, are often drawn from outside of scripture in historical, literary or other fields. It inevitably involvesexegesis, which is the act of interpreting or explaining the meaning of scripture. The goal in applying the principles of hermeneutics is to "rightly handle the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15), striving to accurately discern the meaning of the text.

Now tell me how this works.
Blessings
Jim

I have been to different churches and groups over the years and it always seems to take people by surprise when I speak up and seem to really know what scripture teaches. There is an almost inevitable belief that I have been to bible college/seminary, that I am going, or that I am or have been a preacher. There is always a stunned silence when they learn that I simply just read it prayerfully.
For some reason, the american church has embraced the idea that everything has to be complex or formal to be acceptable.

My grandaddy was a quiet man and lifelong farmer that dropped out of school in the fifth grade to support his family when his own father died. He never recieved any higher education or went to any bible schools. To this day, I have never met very few people with such a profound knowledge of God and His word.

I have always wondered what the point was in striving to learn what other people say the scripture says before I go to God when I can just go straight to God and His word first.

 

[CCW95A]

This is the type of studying I am talking about. Everything about it is man devised and scripture tells us His truth is hidden from the world or unsaved or carnal minded which seems to me thast devising a man made way is not going to gain spiritual insight.

the branch of knowledge that deals with interpretation, especially of the Bible or literary texts.

Hermeneutics /hɛrməˈnjuːtɪks/ is the theory of text interpretation, especially the interpretation of biblical texts, wisdom literature, and philosophical texts.

Interpretation of the Bible

Hermeneutics is the science of interpreting what an author has written. In Christian theology, hermeneutics focuses specifically on constructing and discovering the appropriate rules for interpreting the Bible. These methods and principles, however, are often drawn from outside of scripture in historical, literary or other fields. It inevitably involvesexegesis, which is the act of interpreting or explaining the meaning of scripture. The goal in applying the principles of hermeneutics is to "rightly handle the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15), striving to accurately discern the meaning of the text.

Now tell me how this works.
Blessings
Jim

Hermeneutics is a man made way of trying to make sense out of God's Word. It is a worldly made up contraption that falls way short of discovering truth that only the Holy Spirit can give. God's Word are thought process from a spiritual being who inhabits eternity, and who is the beginning and the end all at the same time. How can his Words stay in context when he speaks using "overlays" that speak not only of what has happened along time ago, but what is happening today and tomorrow within the same paragraph? Man made tools can never work.

 

[eric m williams]

Man made tools can never work.

I don't think that's quite true.
Part of making disciples is teaching and that often involves sharing tools (techniques and observations) that we have found to be effective and that the disciple can use until they grow past them (training wheels so to speak).
So long as we understand that such tools are not absolutely required and are often person or task specific.

 

[CCW95A]

I don't think that's quite true.
Part of making disciples is teaching and that often involves sharing tools (techniques and observations) that we have found to be effective and that the disciple can use until they grow past them (training wheels so to speak).
So long as we understand that such tools are not absolutely required and are often person or task specific.

Brother the Apostle Paul warned the Church about those who would try and convince the Church of teaching that did not come from the "anointing" which is Christ.

Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

 

[eric m williams]

Brother the Apostle Paul warned the Church about those who would try and convince the Church of teaching that did not come from the "anointing" which is Christ.

Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Apparently we have a disconnect here. Techniques are not teaching/philosophy. They are teaching aides and like most aides they typically get and should be outgrown as the disciple learns.

When you meet a new believer who wants to know how to pray or what part of scripture they should read first, what do you tell them?
Do you feel that we should not share the things we have learned and perhaps how we have learned them with new believers?

 

[CCW95A]

Apparently we have a disconnect here. Techniques are not teaching/philosophy. They are teaching aides and like most aides they typically get and should be outgrown as the disciple learns.

When you meet a new believer who wants to know how to pray or what part of scripture they should read first, what do you tell them?
Do you feel that we should not share the things we have learned and perhaps how we have learned them with new believers?

When teaching new believers you always show them the Word of God. Telling them will not do anything without the Word of God being included, because that is exactly where faith comes from which causes prayer to work.

 

[eric m williams]

When teaching new believers you always show them the Word of God. Telling them will not do anything without the Word of God being included, because that is exactly where faith comes from which causes prayer to work.

I definately agree, but to clarify...
If you are talking with a new believer that you are not going to be able to spend time with (such as someone in another town or the like) and they want to know what part of scripture they should read first, what do you tell them?

 

[CCW95A]

I definately agree, but to clarify...
If you are talking with a new believer that you are not going to be able to spend time with (such as someone in another town or the like) and they want to know what part of scripture they should read first, what do you tell them?

Depends on what they are asking. Always use scripture to answer anyone's questions. This is Gods method which is why we are to preach the Gospel, not our own thoughts or opinions.

 

[eric m williams]

Depends on what they are asking. Always use scripture to answer anyone's questions. This is Gods method which is why we are to preach the Gospel, not our own thoughts or opinions.

The question: "What should I read first?"

Not a difficult question to answer.
Some uniformly recommend starting with the gospel of John...
Some say "Start at the beginning"...
Myself, time permitting, I usually pray as I consider what the person knows before I answer.

 

[CCW95A]

The question: "What should I read first?"

Not a difficult question to answer.
Some uniformly recommend starting with the gospel of John...
Some say "Start at the beginning"...
Myself, time permitting, I usually pray as I consider what the person knows before I answer.

Every body is at different levels of spiritual growth, and that makes a huge difference in what to say. If they are very well versed in the scriptures then they will recognize what you are saying as the Holy Spirit quickens them. If they are young Christian then you need to show them the scriptures so they can see, and hear the Word of God.

 

[eric m williams]

Every body is at different levels of spiritual growth, and that makes a huge difference in what to say. If they are very well versed in the scriptures then they will recognize what you are saying as the Holy Spirit quickens them. If they are young Christian then you need to show them the scriptures so they can see, and hear the Word of God.

Ok. You're completely skipping my question by ignoring the details of the question and my responses...
Discussion lost. Thanks for your time...

 

[Where is the Messiah]

In response to the original post, I would say it's extremely important. When the disciples asked the messiah to teach them how to pray, He didn't stop at, "forgive us our debts." He continued with, "as we also have forgiven our debtors." It doesn't say, "as we also are trying to forgive our debtors" or "as we are in the process of forgiving our debtors." This would lead me to believe that as soon as we recognize forgiveness needs to be given, we should make every attempt to do so.

A verse that humbles me, and reminds me that I have no reason ever not to forgive is when the messiah was being crucified. While they were humiliating Him, and murdering Him, He said,"Father, forgive them for they do not know what they do"
It's amazing to me, because they're in the process of killing Him, and He has already forgiven them while they are committing the sin.

 

[CCW95A]

Ok. You're completely skipping my question by ignoring the details of the question and my responses...
Discussion lost. Thanks for your time...

I am not missing anything. If you want to tell what scripture someone should read about prayer, that depends on their spiritual growth, and what kind of prayer
they looking for. One prayer does not fit all.

 

[CCW95A]

In response to the original post, I would say it's extremely important. When the disciples asked the messiah to teach them how to pray, He didn't stop at, "forgive us our debts." He continued with, "as we also have forgiven our debtors." It doesn't say, "as we also are trying to forgive our debtors" or "as we are in the process of forgiving our debtors." This would lead me to believe that as soon as we recognize forgiveness needs to be given, we should make every attempt to do so.

A verse that humbles me, and reminds me that I have no reason ever not to forgive is when the messiah was being crucified. While they were humiliating Him, and murdering Him, He said,"Father, forgive them for they do not know what they do"
It's amazing to me, because they're in the process of killing Him, and He has already forgiven them while they are committing the sin.

What do think would have happened if Jesus did not ask his Father to forgive?

 

[Mykuhl]

Myself, time permitting, I usually pray as I consider what the person knows before I answer.

Eric,

It seems that CCW is saying pretty much the same thing as you did in the above quote. Perhaps just in a different way though.