Macarthur's Understanding Of The Holy Spirit

[Dave Lucas]

What would be a couple of Scriptures that are drop dead wrong that people use???

Just curious as to what page we are on?

They use scripture out of context or without any adherence to the Two Great Commands.

Good example are the prosperity ministers out there. Thinking God will make you wealthy in mammon.

It is a drop dead wrong.

Another one abused is Paul's ideas on divorce in 1st Corinthians 7. A scripture that is used heavily for freeing Christians from marriage even though it is not what The King says.

Paul tries to cover it, but people skip over that part. Because it justifies their desires.

Old wine issue.

 

[Major]

They use scripture out of context or without any adherence to the Two Great Commands.

Good example are the prosperity ministers out there. Thinking God will make you wealthy in mammon.

It is a drop dead wrong.

Another one abused is Paul's ideas on divorce in 1st Corinthians 7. A scripture that is used heavily for freeing Christians from marriage even though it is not what The King says.

Paul tries to cover it, but people skip over that part. Because it justifies their desires.

Old wine issue.

I got cha! Yes, you are very right.

 

[Silk]

I don't put my faith in a man (well except Christ)- I have watched alot of John MacArthur and I disagree in places that he doesn't back, per se, in scripture. I don't want to go back to quote but @david Lucas - he's right! on out of context, sculpted, strung together scripture. This can be made to prove any devil's point. As for knowing scripture inside out - esword can make it seem you know everything and can help you pull scripture out of your butt. It's a good tool for study but can be horribly abused. It's not my purpose to put individuals down, even charismatics. I pray for them and me - that our eyes be open. The only way I know to test the path I'm on is to use the Word, in it's FULL Glory, with what I know of the TRUTH in my planks of basic faith. And I didn't always know this - because I used to trouble over what I saw as contradictions, instead of looking for truth. This movement IS not fringe and is now mainstream from all I have been able to gather.

PS: I LOVE Babylon 5 and have all the DVD's - I'd forgotten that episode. Rofl

 

[Silk]

Curious here - has anyone heard of John Todd? An ex-Illuminati warlock, who was converted to Christ. He has alot to say about the charismatic movement and the powers that be. He spoke out for a short time, was imprisoned and now no one knows what happened to him and he is believed dead?

About the Babylon 5 clip - that was part of the gag reel, right? I know I saw it in the dvd's but otherwise old age and not viewing for about 5 yrs.......

 

[Dave Lucas]

ex-Illuminati warlock

There are so many things wrong here I cannot even begin.

Illuminati AND warlock.

Is this like Goth Pirate?
Maybe Hipster Ninja?
Perhaps triple Steampunk Hacker Therianthrope?

The Mind boggles.

About the Babylon 5 clip - that was part of the gag reel, right? I know I saw it in the dvd's but otherwise old age and not viewing for about 5 yrs.......

No it was from the series, they often poked at modern culture in the show, like Reebo and Zooty, Penn and Teller and McBari the McDonalds of Minbar. Where It is said their food feels so good going down, not so much coming up. Spoo is always another tip of the hat to previous scifi and a running gag in the show.

 

[Silk]

RE: Babylon 5 - yeah, I liked the one where they had a human suing a grey for abducting their ancestor. But the hokey pokey one - well never mind. I thought that was part of a gag reel but maybe not.

Re: John Todd - I take it you never heard of him then? I don't know if he talks about charismatics in his one. The Title tho is John Todd, ex Warlock, ex illuminati.

This one he talks about the charismatics

 

[Silk]

I chose the first video for it's title and hadn't watched it. The 2nd video is more on par with the thread.

 

[Silk]

OK - I was asking if anyone had heard about John Todd because I hadn't heard about him before. Google is your friend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Todd_(conspiracy_theorist). Apologies

 

[Osterloh]

Thoughts? ... Difficult when I have goosebumps everywhere and my hair is standing on end.
I only got as far as the 6+ minute mark!

My testimony to you is that the following is for today, i.e. the Lord NEVER put an end to it.
The end was put to it by none other than Satan and the early mega churches (EOC and RCC).
Why? The churches wanted all the power and control for themselves! Guaranteed truth.

1 Corinthians 12:
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:
2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led.
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed,
and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit,
to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits,
to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

These are the 9 spiritual power gifts.

Note: this gift of faith has absolutely nothing to do with being born-again.
This gift is extraordinarily powerful, necessary to evangelize in incredibly dangerous places, etc.

One reason MacArthur is against these gifts for today is because he has none of them.
And also, he must be terribly deceived to be so blatantly against them.

 

[Silk]

@Osterloh Your post caused me to rewatch the OP video (1/2 way), because where there is no doubt that MacArthur believes in cessationism, I chose this video because his argument about blasphemy against the HS was not about cessationism and is not broached here as part of what he's saying. I would say he is a very good preacher of the Word and has discernment, wisdom and knowledge about his subject. So - what 6 mins. did you watch?

 

[JustPassingThru]

Just in case you thought I was making it up:

It's all tied up in hypnotism, they hypnotized these people, and here's how they did it,

1. a steady beat from the drum on the first and fourth notes (a study of drumbeats in modern music is fascinating as to how rock bands can control the audience).
2. the bass guitar playing a low note softly on the first, second and fourth note and strong of the third note.
3. the speaker set the audience up at the very beginning by suggesting what they would do.
4. everything going very slow, soft and melodic all to set the mood and prepare the people
5. at 1:35 he spoke unintelligibly and very quickly which was equivalent to the finger snap in the old days.
6. the audience was hypnotized and responded to the suggestion that was presented at the beginning,

The reason it happened so quickly is the audience came there looking for and expecting the experience, he set the hook in telling how many healings took place in another session.

That's an altered state of consciousness, ...not the Holy Spirit of the Word.

Blessings,

Gene

 

[Barnabas]

It's all tied up in hypnotism, they hypnotized these people, and here's how they did it,

1. a steady beat from the drum on the first and fourth notes (a study of drumbeats in modern music is fascinating as to how rock bands can control the audience).
2. the bass guitar playing a low note softly on the first, second and fourth note and strong of the third note.
3. the speaker set the audience up at the very beginning by suggesting what they would do.
4. everything going very slow, soft and melodic all to set the mood and prepare the people
5. at 1:35 he spoke unintelligibly and very quickly which was equivalent to the finger snap in the old days.
6. the audience was hypnotized and responded to the suggestion that was presented at the beginning,

That's an altered state of consciousness, ...not the Holy Spirit of the Word.

Blessings,

Gene

The audience also knows what they're suppose to do. If they didn't want to play the game, they wouldn't be there.

 

[Silk]

Hey Gene (waving)..I always thought hokey pokey came from hocus pocus

 

[Silk]

The audience also knows what they're suppose to do. If they didn't want to play the game, they wouldn't be there.

I dunno. If I was in a church or similar gathering, filled with "christians", I might join in, thinking that it was safe and a way of expressing my love of God. I think it is the leaders, not so much the participants? You say "game" but it is more a ritual?

 

[Silk]

And the definition of hocus pocus is:
ho·cus-po·cus
ˌhōkəs ˈpōkəs/nonsense, rubbish, garbage, balderdash, malarkey, baloney, bunk, hogwash, bull, hokumMore
"she dismissed it as so much hocus-pocus"

• a form of words often used by a person performing magic tricks.
• US
  deception; trickery.
  synonyms:magic, sleight of hand, conjuring, witchcraft, wizardry, sorcery;More
  deception, sham, devilry, trickery;
  informalscam
  "a little hocus-pocus and—presto!—the tiger disappears"

 

[JustPassingThru]

Hey Silk,

No doubt there are naive ones there, but the power of suggestion is strong, I have talked with people that have resisted the hypnosis of slain in the spirit, only to go back another time and succumb.

Blessings,

Gene

 

[DavidG]

I dunno. If I was in a church or similar gathering, filled with "christians", I might join in, thinking that it was safe and a way of expressing my love of God. I think it is the leaders, not so much the participants? You say "game" but it is more a ritual?

Hey Silk,

No doubt there are naive ones there, but the power of suggestion is strong, I have talked with people that have resisted the hypnosis of slain in the spirit, only to go back another time and succumb.

Blessings,

Gene

Stepping over into implying a conspiracy by the leaders is far past having a problem with their theology and seems a rather unnecessarily defamatory when based on deductive conjecture rather than some sort of proof. It's not just one sect of people who are vulnerable to suggestion. The earlier mentioned John Todd was taken as a valid witness by many because people were thirsty for charismatic conspiracy theories.

 

[TezriLi]

Say. Writing of such things, does anyone know where the term heebie-jeebies came from? I tried to find out one time but was unsuccessful. I am very suspicious of it for unknown reasons, but when I learned that its first public uses were in the 1920s, I became suspicious again, because of what was going on in L.A. at that time. Anyone know? Anyone find any apparent evidence of its true origin?

 

[Silk]

I wasn't implying a conspiracy - but I do think charismatic leadership is responsible for errors in theology and there does appear to be multiple errors, frauds and misleading by this movement.

Re: John Todd - I saw one video (the 2nd I posted) and had asked if anyone else had heard of him. I found defenders of Todd in my google search (http://www.kt70.com/~jamesjpn/articles/john-todd-now.html ) And he is a convincing speaker (a bit far off for my taste) who I am still interested in finding out about him. But he lacks credibility so I apologized for posting him on the thread. Todd criticized everybody - not just charismatics.

 

[Silk]

Say. Writing of such things, does anyone know where the term heebie-jeebies came from? I tried to find out one time but was unsuccessful. I am very suspicious of it for unknown reasons, but when I learned that its first public uses were in the 1920s, I became suspicious again, because of what was going on in L.A. at that time. Anyone know? Anyone find any apparent evidence of its true origin?

I thought I knew but I guess I didn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heebie-jeebies_(idiom)

Hope you don't mind if I smile about your having the heebie jeebies over the term heebie jeebies? (teasing).