And for those that don't think it's real or in the church, don't forget to add Copperfield to that list, ...causing someone to falls backwards is peanuts compared to having an audience, that has paid thousands of bucks, to believe/think they have actually seen and airplane disappear!
Macarthur's Understanding Of The Holy Spirit
- Thread starter Silk
- Start date
And for those that don't think it's real or in the church, don't forget to add Copperfield to that list, ...causing someone to falls backwards is peanuts compared to having an audience, that has paid thousands of bucks, to believe/think they have actually seen and airplane disappear!
Friend, not only do I believe God is alive on planet earth, I also believe satan is alive and not-so-well on planet earth, and God is allowing Him to deceive those that have not received the love of the Truth.
Me too, ...provide for me Scriptural authentication of this phenomenon of being slain in the Spirit from the Word since the day of Pentecost, like you have claimed, also tell me of what spiritual value it is in our walk with the Lord.
We'll be waiting.
Sadly, there are millions of people who would believe Copperfield has real magic if Copperfield said he has real magic. I could point out that all Copperfield had to do was move the camera away from the plane, while the camera's vision is blocked, to make it look like the plane vanished. I could point to evidence that the camera was moved. But, millions of people would still believe Copperfield has real magic.
If you use the ticks of magic, you're performing tricks. Pentecostal leaders are using the tricks of magic, so they're performing tricks. A trick is where you knowingly make something that's not so appear to be so.
Nada about falling backwards, only forwards.
Nada also about Jesus proclaiming, "I am God".
And there are many other nadas in Scripture.
Such as, God giving a word about some particular circumstances
in a particular church, such as whether to build a particular addition.
(Yes, we serve a very personal God.)
Would God's answer be yes, no, or wait? ... Ah, that info could just come in handy.
In a small church in Eastern Europe ...
I saw 8 ladies come forward for a healing of some malady or other.
'Twas a Pentecostal church and they came forward with great faith
and were prayed for, of course, with great faith "in the name of Jesus".
Each one, in turn, was slain in the Spirit (backwards)
and ALL 8 were healed of what was afflicting them!
Whytofore, would Satan be doing something like this?
Explanation forthcoming, I presume.
Harboring UNBELIEF, a Christian will get absolutely nothing from the Lord.
This is why there is nothing much going on the churches these days!
The Spirit is not there due to UNBELIEF.
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This sounds like another Benny Hinn reference. What evidence do you have that magic shows are the norm among Pentecostal leaders? I have visited at least dozens of what would be termed charismatic churches in different cultures. They were (with few exceptions) lead by humble men who were as dubious about "come see the amazing me! oh and God too" shows as you are. But they either can't afford to broadcast their services or don't believe that broad casting would serve God's purpose for His church. I don't discount, that what you've experienced may be different than what I have. But the existence of just one Christ centered, bible teaching/believing, honest, active, serving, loving, evangelizing, charismatic church is enough to show that there are at least two possible types of charismatic churches. I could not with any intellectual honesty say which type is representative of the whole without polling all or at least the majority of those 500 million some Charismatics. And even then I couldn't tell you if it was comparatively better or worse than the rest of Christianity with out having comprehensive data on them as well.
That's a really great question. Growth is the most popular buzz word of the American church
but no. I measure it by seeing them take care of widows and orphans and keeping themselves unstained from the world. I measure it by their reputation of holiness that confounds their persecutors and leads their enemies come and ask "what manner of spirit allows you to love those who hate you?" I measure it when I see people who haven't been able to put 3 square meals on the table for days still joyful in our hope of salvation say "though He slay me, yet will I trust Him" -the inverse of the prosperity gospel that has been painted as universal in charismatic circles. I measure it when I see spiritually dead/corrupt men come to life completely changed by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. On this one I'm out of my depth. I don't see the connection clearly enough to offer a retort.
So then, since there are no Biblical directions or even any instances of "slain in the Spirit", why would you think that it is something that we need to do????
Are you sure that the spirit you seek is the Holy Spirit? We know from the Scriptures that Satan makes himself an angle of light in order to deceive.
When I watch religious TV, every single person who fakes this being slain in the spirit, falls backwards.
When I study the Scriptures, the only ones falling back wards are UNBELIEVERS. The Believers fall forward when in the presence of deity.
Isn't it interesting what man will do when he has it in his mind to do what he wants to do????
You should come to India and visit the temples. You would wonder what and all satan can do!!
And that would depend on him being able to get past the millions of RATS that live in their temples! RATS!
They are holy (small h)!
I wish I can take everyone who denies the work of enemy to India. I am not talking about 3rd hand stories.. It is live in front of lives.. Not even from strangers.. with people within the family.. no denial
How can anyone explain something they know nothing about?
My 1st thought would be......how do you know they had an illness? Because they told you????
How do you know they were healed????
The Bible says that all men are liars.
Why would Satan do that. You mean I really have to explain that to you....come on!
YUP! ... Start explaining ... come on!
Everything was done to glorify Jesus.
Remember YOU asked, I did not offer this!!!!
There is only ONE example in the Scriptures that is even remotely close to "slain in the Spirit".
In Gethsemane when Jesus spoke....every one there fell backwards. That was because they were all lost!
When some claims to be healed, it is always something unseen. Blind, a tumor, one leg is shorter than another, a headache, and so and so on. The world is desperate for healing. Never have our lives been more crowded with life-diminishing, health-destroying factors than they are today. Toxic chemicals in food, air, and water; mounting stress from political, social and economic turmoil; the spawning of new diseases that defy the ingenuity of physicians; droughts, famines and pestilences have turned this world into a gigantic infirmary, and driven earth's populace to the brink of despair.
All these factors combine to make the world desperate for healing. And here, like a fragrant but deadly mist, arises a great danger. For Satan, the archenemy who has instigated all the miseries that afflict this planet, offers methods to alleviate or remove suffering that are designed to separate us from God and fatally ensnare our souls.
Matt. 24:24 Jesus warned against deception Jesus warned that prior to His second coming: "
"There shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible. they shall deceive the very elect".
These supposed miracles will include what appears to be divine healing. Satan will make people sick by casting his spell upon them, and will then remove the spell, leading others to say that those who were sick have been miraculously healed. How can we distinguish the false from the true?
One Bible test is found in Isaiah 8:20:.............
"To the law and the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
In the latter days Satan performs great wonders, including miracles of healing. (see Rev. 3:13, 14; 16:14).
Therefore not every miracle is of God. We can distinguish between divine and sat satanic miracles only cultivating a deep love for God and His word. (See Matt. 24:24; 2 Thess. 2:4-17.)
Satan's most effective agents in deception are those who profess to honor God's cause and seem like dedicated Christians, some of whom exhibit gifts of apparent power to heal. Their service is often connected with the accumulation of great wealth and indulgence in luxurious living. (See 2 Cor. 11:13-15; 2 Pet. 2:1-3, 13-20. cp. 1 Cor. 3:16-18.)
These religious agents of deception can be detected by their disohedience to God's law or stated rejection of some part of it. (See Matt. 7:21-24; Isa. 8:10; I John. 2:5, 6).
Satan labors to seduce the world into paying homage to him by turning people away from an intelligent knowledge and worship of their Creator, the only one who can truly heal and restore our diseased minds and bodies. (See Lk. 4:18; 1 Pet. 2:22-25; Ezek. 11:19, 20, in contrast to Ezek. 11:21; 2 Thess. 2.4; Rev. 13:1-8; 16:1,
@DavidG I was talking about the leaders of a movement and their errors - not other fringe groups equally wrong. We are talking about HS hokey pokey healing sessions. We are talking about, at best, strung together scripture to justify new actions that the Word opposes. Why do you think Christ said I don't know you to those who claimed to cast out demons, spoke in His name? These fallacies arising from this movement are salvation slayers/killers. Do I think some have come to Christ, having been mislead? Yes! I think some do and then they start following the Word. But others come not for love of Truth but for healing, for whatever God can do for them and they don't get it. They have followed everything they are told to do and told you do not have enough faith - give more $$. I'm sure you have "felt" fruit in these charismatic churches. And I hope you are right that it is the "right" fruit of God.
Do not make it my words that seek to confuse the argument with comparisons. It's a simple warning the bible gives us: Test all spirits that come to you: including those that claim they are the HS. No one is doing that in this movement. I hear no humbleness from it's leaders only greed, glory for themselves and revelations that aren't true. It's dangerous.
Do not make it my words that seek to confuse the argument with comparisons. It's a simple warning the bible gives us: Test all spirits that come to you: including those that claim they are the HS. No one is doing that in this movement. I hear no humbleness from it's leaders only greed, glory for themselves and revelations that aren't true. It's dangerous.
Well said!
@DavidG, in the States I belonged to what some could call a charismatic church, but it was/is charisma and NOT charismania, I have seen or observed EVERY gift Romans 12, manifestation of the gifts 1 Cor 12 and ministries of the gifts Eph 4, operating in the church, ALWAYS/ONLY when we would be serving others (isn't that the Biblical model of when Jesus preformed His miracles), and the Lord has performed miracles through me, since I've been here, but......., it was like when the Lord changed the water into wine, only the servants knew a miracle had happened, no one else around me was aware of it, ...we (the church and myself) didn't announce it, call for TV cameras or the newspapers, it was just serving people, as usual, and God supernaturally naturally intervened.
We, and I speak for my church, were the first to denounce these shenanigans and hockey-pokey back in the '80s, so yes I follow what you are saying, but we are called to expose the darkness.
Blessings,
Gene
We, and I speak for my church, were the first to denounce these shenanigans and hockey-pokey back in the '80s, so yes I follow what you are saying, but we are called to expose the darkness.
Blessings,
Gene
That’s your opinion.
Mine is, the Holy Spirit knocked them over to at least show them God’s power.
God’s power was also displayed when He was on the cross … earthquake, total darkness, etc.
Opposite for me!
Meanwhile, your post has nothing to do with the 8 ladies who were blessed,
with Jesus getting all of the glory ... all over the village!
Remember BELIEF, FAITH, TRUST is far better than UNBELIEF.
If some don't see that Christ declared His divinity in the Word, I would have to say they don't know scripture very well. Not only was it there in all of His work - He forgave sin - only God can do that. He called Himself the alpha and the omega - only God is that. He is the Word made flesh - Oh Emmanuel - the Lord is with us.
As for unbelief? Read my signature. *I don't merely believe, I know God exists. I know He loves me. I know where to place my trust. His Word tells me. He heaps multiple gifts on all of us, as we need - not desire. The HS's work is to clarify thru understanding, love and truth our connection to God. His work is not confusion. It is not untruth.
As for unbelief? Read my signature. *I don't merely believe, I know God exists. I know He loves me. I know where to place my trust. His Word tells me. He heaps multiple gifts on all of us, as we need - not desire. The HS's work is to clarify thru understanding, love and truth our connection to God. His work is not confusion. It is not untruth.
Without any Scriptural authority will land you in........, a place you don't want to be!
You can't use the Roman soldiers as an example, first they were not believers and second they came to arrest Jesus, not worship!
Now, please answer the question I asked and I'll tell you more about the Roman solders.
No friend....that is not my opinion. That is exactly what is written in the Word of God. You totally missed the point of those in Gethsemane my brother. They fell BACKWARDS in fear because they were lost. In the Scriptures, those who are saved fall FOWARD in worship when in contact with God. STUDY to show thyself approved, a workmen approved of by God!!!!
Evidently you are unable to receive what is found in the Bible since your mind is made up. If that is what you choose to do and believe, fine with me.
The only ones getting the glory of the 8 ladies you spoke of was the 8 ladies.
You are correct when you say......."BELIEF, FAITH, TRUST is far better than UNBELIEF". Now that is something we all can agree on.
I realize that you said that in a derogatory way aimed me, but it is in fact true.