And just so we're clear. We (I think I'm safe to say most Christians) are not intolerant of the sinner, we love all sinners just as Christ did/does. What we do not accept is sin.
Ministering to the Homosexual community
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And just so we're clear. We (I think I'm safe to say most Christians) are not intolerant of the sinner, we love all sinners just as Christ did/does. What we do not accept is sin.
Beloved, but if you were to ever call out those who gossip and judge in your church, they would either deny it, or repent from it. I don't think they would say, hey you need to just accept my gossiping. So the issue is not that they are gay, its the fact that they want believers to accept it.
Would you accept an active murderer in your church? I'm sure there is people that have murdered in the church, but I would hope they have a repented heart, and not want the church body to accept that they're a murderer and that it wasn't a choice, it was just how they were born. Only my opinion though, I mean no harm.
Are you talking to me? I never know who you are talking to, because you don't quote.
Nonetheless, scripture says all sexual immorality is sin. So I would treat the homosexual the same as I would treat the man that is cheating on his wife. Both are wrong, and both should not be accepted, and is not accepted by God. One should encourage those in sin to repent. Not because we think they are less of a person, or we are "holier than thou" but because we care and are showing love.
Honestly, I don't think any real Christian hates gays, as the gay community always makes it out to be. I think the true Christian generally cares, and is compassionate. They want to see someone get saved!
Huntingteckel
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I hope you aren't talking to me Miylee, because that's not what I said.
Where is the Messiah, it's the same thing as heterosexual couples being in the church. There is no way to guarantee they aren't having premarital sex yet no one has any problem with that.
If they were openly doing it then I'm sure the church would have a problem with it. If they were going around saying "Hey! We are having premarital sex, and that's our choice." I can't see any church saying that's okay….
Wait, I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying since there are heterosexual couples in the church, and since we don't know if they are having premarital sex, then we should also be okay with homosexual couples in the church because we don't know if they are having premarital sex?
Huntingteckel
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Homosexual couples don't go around screaming they are having sex either.
Sure. I'm fine with homosexual couples in the church even if they are having sex because that's where they should be. Everyone is a sinner. Homosexuals shouldn't be singled out are worse sinners then all the porn addicted teens we have nowadays.
I respectfully disagree, but you do make a good argument on the matter.
I'm on the road so I gotta stop messaging for now. Have a blessed day!
I believe that Miylee was talking to me that post you were referring to. In any case, I would have to respectfully disagree with you as well. If they are saved they should be repenting of their sin, not celebrating it.
"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." Romans 6:1-14
Huntingteckel
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Your making the assumption that they would be celebrating. Homosexuals don't always go around waving a banner saying they're proud to be gay.
I believe you're making the assumption that I'm making the assumption that they would celebrate it in the church.
Since this is all hypothetically speaking then if they're not celebrating their sin then it would not be an issue.
The thing is the LGBT community does celebrate coming out of the closet, and if you don't accept their sin, then you are classified as a bigot. Just like we were called a bigot in this thread.
Regardless of my assumption (which you're right, I shouldn't have said/assumed that and for that I apologize), the point is repentance of ones sin(s). This is especially true since you stated in an earlier post that homosexuals (even if they are having sex) should be in church. I'm assuming you're talking about those that are not yet saved? Or if they are saved they are working on repenting but having a hard time doing so?
Also, you're correct in saying that homosexuals shouldn't be singled out. No sin is greater than the next. The focus should be on teaching those that are not saved to live for Christ, through love, and not themselves.
Guys don't follow the trend of disregarding the OT. Atheists are known to mock the OT laws. Naively forgetting there was a panel of wise elders that would judge every sentencing. The classic example is slavery. If only people would actually read the OT laws on slavery before being as naive as Obama. The Jews treated slaves like employees.
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As for homosexuality. I have not seen a single attempt at quoting actual scripture by Miylee and this being her first topic of discussion means she is more likely a troll then someone to be taken seriously.
So to us Christians, lets not be naive that sin = sin. In the OT different sins received different sentences. Thief = hand chopped off. Sorcerer = burnt at the stake. Homosexual = stoned to death. Other lessor sins = excommunication.
Now in the NT, going from glory to glory 2 Cor 3:18 is Christianity 101. We should all have immediate victory over mortal sins. Just like a husband should have victory on adultery if he loves his wife. We should all be battling only with venial sins. Just like swearing / arguments / occasional bad thoughts in a marriage.
Anyone continuing in mortal sin is either not a Christian or they are shipwrecking their Christianity. That is why the Jews judged the sin as deserving of death and the NT has verses like 1 Cor 6:9-11, Rom 1:26-28, 1 Tim 1:10-11 and the whole of 1 Cor 5.
I am sure if Miylee was cross questioned and honest she is either unsaved or belongs to a liberal church. If unsaved, we must be kind, loving and patient. If liberal church, she is pushing false teaching in the name of Christianity and must be rebuked.
It is always quite amusing to ask what scripture a 'homosexual Christian' does actually accept. The OT is not for them. Paul's teaching is not for them. Only Jesus's as He never touched on it. But they don't grasp that Jesus was making a point. His point was that no sin will be in God's presence, all need to repent, God loves all sinners but not their sin. Jesus came for the unsaved sinner. Now as a saved person, we follow Paul's teaching as well as Jesus's and never disregard the OT.
As for homosexuality. I have not seen a single attempt at quoting actual scripture by Miylee and this being her first topic of discussion means she is more likely a troll then someone to be taken seriously.
So to us Christians, lets not be naive that sin = sin. In the OT different sins received different sentences. Thief = hand chopped off. Sorcerer = burnt at the stake. Homosexual = stoned to death. Other lessor sins = excommunication.
Now in the NT, going from glory to glory 2 Cor 3:18 is Christianity 101. We should all have immediate victory over mortal sins. Just like a husband should have victory on adultery if he loves his wife. We should all be battling only with venial sins. Just like swearing / arguments / occasional bad thoughts in a marriage.
Anyone continuing in mortal sin is either not a Christian or they are shipwrecking their Christianity. That is why the Jews judged the sin as deserving of death and the NT has verses like 1 Cor 6:9-11, Rom 1:26-28, 1 Tim 1:10-11 and the whole of 1 Cor 5.
I am sure if Miylee was cross questioned and honest she is either unsaved or belongs to a liberal church. If unsaved, we must be kind, loving and patient. If liberal church, she is pushing false teaching in the name of Christianity and must be rebuked.
It is always quite amusing to ask what scripture a 'homosexual Christian' does actually accept. The OT is not for them. Paul's teaching is not for them. Only Jesus's as He never touched on it. But they don't grasp that Jesus was making a point. His point was that no sin will be in God's presence, all need to repent, God loves all sinners but not their sin. Jesus came for the unsaved sinner. Now as a saved person, we follow Paul's teaching as well as Jesus's and never disregard the OT.
For a believer that has the Spirit of God...all forms of fornication is a sin against their own body. The Spirit of God will take up a battle against the believer who submits to these things. Paul said every sin that a believer commits is outside the body except fornication and this is a sin against ones own body. Now if they are some "real" Christians who have the Spirit of God dwelling in them, that would take up this lifestyle or continue in this? Then be sure that God will move past mercy and into judgment against that believers flesh and will destroy the flesh of that believer. God is not mocked by those who would use the doctrines of the gospel to justify ungodliness and perversion. He is well able to bring these people into a place of repentance if indeed any of these people are really His to begin with. There is very few demands made upon a believer in Christ as it relates to holiness of the body.. but basically to keep our bodies from all forms of fornication.
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Ac 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Ac 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
I watched the video and I was really hoping it would make a good argument, but it did not. That video would not lead a nonbeliever to Christ, it only shows how much whoever created it hates Obama. I think Christians shouldn't get too much involved with politics. It distracts us from our real goal
It's just Obama running down the OT. I never posted it for any other reason
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It looks as though Miylee is no longer here, so I think that while I enjoy an honest discussion about this topic, it might be best to shut it down so that it doesn't go in this direction again. I'd be happy to entertain a motion to reopen it if anyone would like to contact me via PM.
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