Ministering to the Homosexual community

[Ingbert]

I've simply never seen any openly gay people in a church environment, so it's a bit hard for me to imagine the crossover.

If you really want to meet gay Christians, you'll have to go to them. They're not likely to come to your church and proclaim themselves. Even if they are totally out, it's not the sort of thing that comes up in day to day conversations.

If there's a gay affirming church in your area, you might visit some day and see what they teach. It's not so different from any other church.

The idea of a gay Christian who has never acted on their sexual feelings...I'm really not sure how I feel about that. I mean, how do we resolve that this is how they SHOULD act? That's a weird issue.

I don't think we can resolve that for anybody but ourselves. Those that I've known either believed same sex behavior was sin or were undecided on the issue and resolved not to act on it unless they were.

 

[Panda]

I can almost guarantee, unless it's a very small church, you already have some LGBT folk there.

It's possible. When I first started going to the church there were two boys that were hugging the entire service. They were extremely effeminate as well. I remember thinking that it was pretty progressive for this church because I used to go there as a child and they seemed so uptight before. As it turned out, they were brothers. The whole family is very affectionate. I can't say for sure that they aren't closet homosexuals since they have both had girlfriends at one time or another, but I'm relatively sure their father (who is very effeminate) is not. Obviously I can't know that for sure, but I know he loves his wife.

Most of us have had bad experiences in church and won't come out to just anybody, much less the whole church.

Last year, I actually did this as part of a skit. It definitely made some people uncomfortable, I've never seen the church so quite. I think a lot of people to this day don't realize it was a skit. I was actually somewhat pleased with the ratio though. Some were definitely uncomfortable, but most really looked at me with compassion. I dare say that if I had to guess, a homosexual would be "relatively" safe in our church. What made it particularly funny was my fiance's aunt was visiting the church. When I stepped up to the platform, my fiance's parents told her who I was. And I promptly "came out of the closet" in front of 500 people. Yeah...that was fun to explain later.

When I was first struggling with my faith and sexuality, I made the mistake of confiding in my pastor. I became the topic of his next sermon.

I confided in a trusted Sunday School teacher, and became the topic of one of his lessons.

Gay or not...this just isn't right. What did these people expect to happen? You would immediately repent of your ways, get married, buy a rotweiller, and swear off doilies forever? That's just stupid. I think people just don't know how to react. I know that I don't, but I also know that I am still me, and I'm nothing if not honest. I also know that I don't have a very good filter on my thoughts, so I might actually joke about it without meaning to. That happens sometimes. On the bright side, I don't generally joke about things I don't accept, so I guess that would mean I've become comfortable with them.

I went to a different church and confided in that pastor and he made a pass at me. (Of course I was much prettier in those days.)

So...I'm guessing it's accepted at that church? This did make me laugh. Thank you for sharing your discomfort.

I don't confide in pastors or teachers any more.

It doesn't take long for us to figure out that Christians are not safe people to come out to.

Don't blame you.

 

[Ingbert]

Last year, I actually did this as part of a skit. It definitely made some people uncomfortable, I've never seen the church so quite. I think a lot of people to this day don't realize it was a skit. I was actually somewhat pleased with the ratio though. Some were definitely uncomfortable, but most really looked at me with compassion. I dare say that if I had to guess, a homosexual would be "relatively" safe in our church. What made it particularly funny was my fiance's aunt was visiting the church. When I stepped up to the platform, my fiance's parents told her who I was. And I promptly "came out of the closet" in front of 500 people. Yeah...that was fun to explain later.

Now that I would have loved to have seen.

Gay or not...this just isn't right. What did these people expect to happen? You would immediately repent of your ways, get married, buy a rotweiller, and swear off doilies forever?

They didn't mention me by name, but they both quoted me verbatim so I had a pretty good idea who they were talking about.

In the case of the pastor, he changed the story a bit to make it sound like he saved me out of a life of unrepentant hedonism. I didn't even know any other gay people at that time.

So...I'm guessing it's accepted at that church? This did make me laugh. Thank you for sharing your discomfort.

No, that was a rather extreme fundamentalist church. To judge by his preaching, he seemed to be very anti-gay and I was really nervous about bringing the subject up. I reckon it's just another example of what everybody already knows....

 

[Christine]

It doesn't take long for us to figure out that Christians are not safe people to come out to.

It's not just those who believe in God, it's also not safe to confide in non-believers as they can be just as hostile. I spent a lot of time defending my gay friend as being just as human as anyone else.
Why do they treat homosexuals like they are committing the greatest sin? Now don't get me wrong. This is just a picture painted before me as I have seen it. Seems to me that Christians and society have the same level of animosity towards homosexuals. Isn't that a scary image?
Even Christians sin, but it's just brushed aside when someone with a different sexual orientation comes through the door.


(This is just what I've seen happen around me. I hope I have not offended anyone.)

 

[Panda]

Now that I would have loved to have seen.

It was fun, but as it turns out I'm a good choice for parts like this because I do enjoy making people uncomfortable. It was entertaining because I was the sixth person. The previous five claimed to aids, an abortion, a drug habit, loneliness, and a divorce. Then again, people have really learned not to take me too seriously, so I doubt anyone would ever believe me if it was the truth. I haven't ever joked around about homosexuality (to my memory), but I do joke around a lot.

They didn't mention me by name, but they both quoted me verbatim so I had a pretty good idea who they were talking about.

Not exactly what you are talking about here, but we did mention the complex task that a pastor has to face last week. The pastor knows so much about every person in his congregation. It HAS to be a challenge to make sure that when you preach a message, that people don't think you are preaching at them because they came to you with a problem. I don't "think" this would be an issue at my church because I've never heard a sermon on it, but I wouldn't promise that to extend to Sunday School. That's a different animal entirely.

No, that was a rather extreme fundamentalist church. To judge by his preaching, he seemed to be very anti-gay and I was really nervous about bringing the subject up. I reckon it's just another example of what everybody already knows....

Kinda like the football player on Glee.

Rooster : You watc...

Bana : Shut it.

 

[InHisLove]

Even Christians sin, but it's just brushed aside when someone with a different sexual orientation comes through the door.

(This is just what I've seen happen around me. I hope I have not offended anyone.)

You haven't offended me. I agree with you.

Why is it that when others are not living quite the way Christians think they should be living they immediately quote all sorts of scripture to them in an attempt to get them back on the right track? However, when Christians aren’t living quite the way others think they should be living as Christians the Christian can somehow justify their actions with the same scripture they used against the same actions of others?

 

[Ingbert]

It's not just those who believe in God, it's also not safe to confide in non-believers as they can be just as hostile. I spent a lot of time defending my gay friend as being just as human as anyone else.
Why do they treat homosexuals like they are committing the greatest sin? Now don't get me wrong. This is just a picture painted before me as I have seen it. Seems to me that Christians and society have the same level of animosity towards homosexuals. Isn't that a scary image?
Even Christians sin, but it's just brushed aside when someone with a different sexual orientation comes through the door.


(This is just what I've seen happen around me. I hope I have not offended anyone.)

You're right, it's not just Christians, and it's not all Christians, not even most. It's just that the church as an institution has been predominantly anti-gay and it only takes a couple incidents to turn somebody off from it.

 

[Panda]

You're right, it's not just Christians, and it's not all Christians, not even most. It's just that the church as an institution has been predominantly anti-gay and it only takes a couple incidents to turn somebody off from it.

Fred Phelps anyone? And yes...yes, now I'm sorry that I went there.

 

[Christine]

You haven't offended me. I agree with you.

Why is it that when others are not living quite the way Christians think they should be living they immediately quote all sorts of scripture to them in an attempt to get them back on the right track? However, when Christians aren’t living quite the way others think they should be living as Christians the Christian can somehow justify their actions with the same scripture they used against the same actions of others?

Ne, ne ^.^ that's the way I see it too! When I lived in BC, I saw these two elderly ladies handing out fliers to spread the word of God and a man in a suit holding out his bible like it was a weapon in front of them!

It seems to me no matter how much one reads the Bible and claim to know or understand it that when they do something like this, it's all out the window. Whatever happened to "practice what you preach" or in this case what you read?

I also think and have seen that Christians will think they have to get out their right away and start saving people only to push them further away from the Truth. I think people need to start opening their spirits a lot more than just hearing and seeing with physical counterparts.

(Again, I hope I haven't offended anyone!)

 

[InHisLove]

I almost want to adopt the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy of the military.

If someone asks me what I think about homosexuality I will tell them.

If they don't ask me what I think about homosexuality I won't tell them.

Just saying ...

 

[HisManySongs]

Why is it that when others are not living quite the way Christians think they should be living they immediately quote all sorts of scripture to them in an attempt to get them back on the right track? However, when Christians aren’t living quite the way others think they should be living as Christians the Christian can somehow justify their actions with the same scripture they used against the same actions of others?

It's the old 'first person/third person' bias: our ways are righteous, their ways are sinful.

Whenever we seek to minister to ANY group we need to look at how Jesus dealt with sinners. He didn't beat them over the head with a Torah (didn't have Bibles in those days), He didn't spout chapter and verse about the law, He LOVED them.

And its Love that will lead a lost soul back home to God!

 

[Ginger]

Point proven, Ingbert you didn't read my whole post because you chose to believe you already know what Christiand think. And you didn't answeer my question? If you're not going to respond, please say so because I am no longer called to this type of ministry and therefore have nothing further to say or add.

Thank you

 

[Ingbert]

Point proven, Ingbert you didn't read my whole post because you chose to believe you already know what Christiand think. And you didn't answeer my question? If you're not going to respond, please say so because I am no longer called to this type of ministry and therefore have nothing further to say or add.

Thank you

No, I didn't read your post because of your opening line.

The points he makes come from an agenda driven purpose. His attitude appears to be "I know everything on this subject, and everyone who disagrees with me is ignorant"

Who's pretending to know what somebody else thinks here?

I answer any questions I deem pertinent or just feel like answering. Otherwise I don't.

 

[Ginger]

I didn't think you would answer it.

 

[Ingbert]

I didn't think you would answer it.

Whatever.

 

[Panda]

This is odd for me. I see two people who from everything I've seen don't usually post like this. I know that Ginger has certainly earned my respect many time and has been so patient with people (especially with alternate lifestyles) that I have literally allowed topics to continue that I normally would have shut down. Up until this point, I haven't seen either of you this confrontational, so I"m really wondering why?

 

[Ingbert]

Well, I can only speak for myself (and I'm assuming I'm one of the ones you mean).

I've been doing this sorta thing for years and have gotten the same kinda responses over and over. It may seem clever for somebody to question if I'm really a Christian. To them, it's the first time they say it, to me it's the thousandth time I've heard it. It's just tedious.

I've also seen the conversations that start out seemingly friendly, but are just manipulating to set me up for something. If I sense that's what somebody's trying to do, I don't give in depth friendly answers.

Yeah, maybe I'm a wee bit paranoid

 

[Panda]

Maybe, or it could be a case of mistaken identity. We recently had a transsexual member sign up and eventually caused a few problems. Totally different names and from all I've seen completely different purposes for being here, but I know when I first saw these posts, I thought that was the person that was being referred to.

 

[Ingbert]

Ah, that does explain things a bit.

No, I'm not here to cause trouble. I get enough of that just being me.

On the other hand, there's a lot of bad information out there about and I do feel I should say something when I see it being passed off as truth. Not so much to convince the person saying it. I've learned that hardly ever happens, but this is the internet and you never know who else might be reading it.

Okay, I'll play nice.... if others do.

 

[Rumely]

Here's just a thought I will throw in here and then run for cover:
Just as we don't have the authority to condemn another person, we also don't have the authority to absolve them.