More Harm Than Good.

My advice is to do a word search for 'predestination' and 'elect' and read the books they are contained in in full context. Also keep in mind the subtleties between the Old Testament Hebrew and New Testament Greek with word definitions.

My argument on predestination is that you must account for the whole Bible and the characteristics of God and the compassion that He has for His own creation. Human kind-from the beginning (Genesis 1:26-31, Genesis 2) was "predestined" to be in the Glory of God. This is what Paul is referring to Romans 8 and Ephesians 1.

To understand predestination, there has to be consideration between 'ages':

The Garden of Eden pre-fall -v- the Garden of Eden post-fall
Pre-flood era -v- post-flood era
Pre-bondage era of the Hebrews -v- Post bondage era (Exodus)
Pre king era -v- post king era of the Jews
Pre-Christ -v- Post Christ (Old & New Testaments)

Also you have to understand to whom scripture is addressed when it is written. Scripture is written mostly to believers and is folly to unbelievers. There needs to be an understanding if this by believers when comparing 'saved' versus 'unsaved'

The #1 consideration is this: God's original human creation was sinless- until the serpent came along. #2 is that since the beginning of Creation; things have progressively gotten worse overall for God's children-usually by their own doing. #3 If you believe the Bible, we all come from the same origin Adam & Eve by blood through Noah.

Predestination can be answered by this question: who chose to sin, God or man? I think we all know the answer to that question. It wasn't God.

The biggest problem I have with 'Predestination' being taught as is; it negates large doctrines of scripture-oh like the necessity for the crucifixion of Christ for our salvation. Christ did not HAVE TOO/ NEED TOO die for His sake. He died for OUR sake that we may have a way out of Hell. (John 3) If we are already accounted for-why bother?

Predestination breeds elitism and destroys the free will of the creation of human kind at the beginning. Can God stop this planet at any moment? YES! Why doesn't He? ANSWER: Long-suffering, Mercy, Grace, Patience, Righteousness-is His Time worth one more soul accepting Him as our Savior and God?
 
Dirtyrottensinner said:
My advice is to do a word search for 'predestination' and 'elect' and read the books they are contained in in full context. Also keep in mind the subtleties between the Old Testament Hebrew and New Testament Greek with word definitions.

My argument on predestination is that you must account for the whole Bible and the characteristics of God and the compassion that He has for His own creation. Human kind-from the beginning (Genesis 1:26-31, Genesis 2) was "predestined" to be in the Glory of God. This is what Paul is referring to Romans 8 and Ephesians 1.

To understand predestination, there has to be consideration between 'ages':

The Garden of Eden pre-fall -v- the Garden of Eden post-fall
Pre-flood era -v- post-flood era
Pre-bondage era of the Hebrews -v- Post bondage era (Exodus)
Pre king era -v- post king era of the Jews
Pre-Christ -v- Post Christ (Old & New Testaments)

Also you have to understand to whom scripture is addressed when it is written. Scripture is written mostly to believers and is folly to unbelievers. There needs to be an understanding if this by believers when comparing 'saved' versus 'unsaved'

The #1 consideration is this: God's original human creation was sinless- until the serpent came along. #2 is that since the beginning of Creation; things have progressively gotten worse overall for God's children-usually by their own doing. #3 If you believe the Bible, we all come from the same origin Adam & Eve by blood through Noah.

Predestination can be answered by this question: who chose to sin, God or man? I think we all know the answer to that question. It wasn't God.

The biggest problem I have with 'Predestination' being taught as is; it negates large doctrines of scripture-oh like the necessity for the crucifixion of Christ for our salvation. Christ did not HAVE TOO/ NEED TOO die for His sake. He died for OUR sake that we may have a way out of Hell. (John 3) If we are already accounted for-why bother?

Predestination breeds elitism and destroys the free will of the creation of human kind at the beginning. Can God stop this planet at any moment? YES! Why doesn't He? ANSWER: Long-suffering, Mercy, Grace, Patience, Righteousness-is His Time worth one more soul accepting Him as our Savior and God?
Click to expand...

OK, so why does the bible say He knew from the beginning? How does one argue against that scripture?
 
Lifeasweknowit said:
I do believe God knows who will and will not be saved, but it poses these questions:


Are we just acting out a play for God? Does predestination mean we don't have free will? Still wondering why exactly we evangelize, but I assume the answer is obedience.
Click to expand...

Hi darlin.

1. Are we just acting out a play for God.............................NO.
2. Does predestination mean we don't have free will?.............NO.
3. Still wondering why exactly we evangelize,......................YES, Obedience and love for the lost.

Romans 10;17
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God".
 
Dear Donato,

I watched the video you referred to for the first time, and I liked it.
My first thought was: "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." (1.John4:8)
Furthermore, John asked his fellow believers to "let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God." (Verse 7)
Regarding those inspired words, the girl in the video did make a biblical request.

Now you discern between two forms of love: 'agape' and 'phile'. I agree that God's love is 'agape', the highest order of love. Thus in the two verses above the Greek original text uses this vocabulary. Verse 8 reads in transscribed Greek "... ho theos agape estin."

But does God really demand from everyone of us to have this highest form of love? Is a lower form not worth anything? I don't think so.
Please look at John 21:15-17. There Jesus asks Peter three times if he loves Him. Please compare with the Greek original! The first and second question of Jesus reads:"agapas me?" - " are you loving me?"
Peter's reply: "philo se" - "I am having affection for you."
Finally the third question of Jesus reads: "phileis me?" - " are you having affection for me?"
Again Peter answers "philo se".

Wouldn't you agree, dear Donato, that Jesus finally accepted that Peter wasn't yet ready to love in the highest form, but that Jesus still accepted the love Peter could give?

So, I think that we should try our best to love and grow in love, because that is God's will.

Little flower
 
Okay this may seem like a cop-out;so I ask for your forgiveness in advance. I really just don't feel like getting into a 'scripture war'.

Point #1: If "elect" means God's 'chosen individuals' -then all us Gentiles might as well put our Bibles down and party like it's 1999. (I am so dating myself.) There is a enormous study that would need to be done comparing Hebrews, Jews, Gentiles when the term 'elect' is used. "Elect" could also be synonymous for "God's Children","saved" or "believers". Again the overall 'people of God' have to be distinguished between Old and New Testaments. Which also begs the question-In the OT were only "Jews" saved? That would mean Ruth was not 'saved' and Christ's lineage is invalidated in Matthew 1:5. You have to resolve the question: who are the people of God? Is it simple a blood issue? NO; it is a heart issue. so the 'elect' do not only pertain to those that were born of the Hebrews/ Jews in the Old Testament. In like manner-the 'elect' in the New Testament were not only converted Jews-but Gentiles (Greeks, etc...) that had a heart for God. So now you have to ask the question: Does God control each individual heart? Yes and No. 'From the foundation of the earth' Mankind's heart was created to be for God: Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. BUT we are given the choice whether or not to follow God. Every individual has to make that choice. Does God 'influence' people? OF COURSE-that's another topic.

Point #2: As I have said before and probably will say many times again-the answer is between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21. I think we all have Bibles here so I won't post the whole thing. :) One of many reasons we have the Bible is to study its HISTORY and apply it to our lives and try not to make the mistakes of our parents.

Point #3: "Predestination" as it is being presented does not pass the "flesh test"; if it appeals to my flesh-it probably isn't of God 99% of the time. The problem is I like the idea of this type of predestination doctrine. I like the thought that "GOD PICKED ME!" But now that would contradict the whole 'God is not a respecter of persons' doctrine wouldn't it?

Point #4: As I have already pointed out-human kind was 'predestined' to be in God's Glory from the beginning 'the foundation of the world'; but we can thank our great-grandparents to the nth degree that we are in the state we are currently in and for getting kicked out of the Garden.

Point #5: People a lot smarter than I have debated this subject to death and all you have to do is Google it.You can find pros and cons on both sides.

"One or another of these words is used on a number of occasions with respect to God’s choice (Acts 6:5; 13:17; 15:7; 1 Corinthians 1:27,28; Luke 18:17; Romans 8:33; etc.). Ephesians 1:4 says: “Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world for us to be holy and unblemished before him in love.” While reference is made here in the context to the act of choice being made before the foundation of the world, the context also indicates that the act of choice was as much centered on the kind of life style as on individuals. The passage is saying simply that God chose—before the foundation of the world—that those whom He would bless with every spiritual blessing would be the ones who would be holy and without blemish before Him in love. The election has to do with selecting or predetermining holy characteristics, not individuals." Page 3

THE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION, FOREORDINATION, AND ELECTION by
F. Furman Kearley, Ph.D. The Biblical Doctrine of Predestination ... - Apologetics Press

Point #6: 'Predestination' conflicts with a whole bunch of scripture & doctrines too numerous to list-so here is a short list:

1 Timothy 2:1-6
2 Peter 3:9
Acts 10:34-35
John 3:16
Matthew 28:18-20
Mark 16:15-16
Revelation 22:17

If you want to believe in the doctrine of predestination in this context, then of course you are at your own will to accept it.

I think this doctrine leads people-especially young Christians- to very dangerous ground. This is the type of thing that divides churches.This doctrine creates more questions than provides answers and drives people away from their faith.

At some point in all our lives we have to take a leap of faith out of the "law" and allow the spirit to guide you in your walk. This thing we debate is one of the mysteries of God that we will never fully comprehend here on this Earth. I don't have the space on this forum to even begin to explore this. My best advice is:

Worship, Read your Bible, Meditate, Pray, Fellowship and Repeat.

Does Paul contradict his own statements of predestination? We are commanded to preach to others so they can HEAR the Gospel so it can be a witness to truth for the spirit...

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Paul-Apostle to the Gentiles by Repentance -Pharisee by Education-Roman by Birth-Hebrew by Birth-Jew by Religion-Chief of Sinners by Confession
 
Now, DRS...YOU asked for the Scriptures!!!

You said...............
"If you want to believe in the doctrine of predestination in this context, then of course you are at your own will to accept it."

To that I would of course have to reply.....If you do NOT want to believe in the doctrine of presestination, then of course you are at your own will to reject it.

Predestination does not save us DRS no more than rebuking someone does. Salvation is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ plus nothing.
 
Dirtyrottensinner said:
Okay this may seem like a cop-out;so I ask for your forgiveness in advance. I really just don't feel like getting into a 'scripture war'.

Point #1: If "elect" means God's 'chosen individuals' -then all us Gentiles might as well put our Bibles down and party like it's 1999. (I am so dating myself.) There is a enormous study that would need to be done comparing Hebrews, Jews, Gentiles when the term 'elect' is used. "Elect" could also be synonymous for "God's Children","saved" or "believers". Again the overall 'people of God' have to be distinguished between Old and New Testaments. Which also begs the question-In the OT were only "Jews" saved? That would mean Ruth was not 'saved' and Christ's lineage is invalidated in Matthew 1:5. You have to resolve the question: who are the people of God? Is it simple a blood issue? NO; it is a heart issue. so the 'elect' do not only pertain to those that were born of the Hebrews/ Jews in the Old Testament. In like manner-the 'elect' in the New Testament were not only converted Jews-but Gentiles (Greeks, etc...) that had a heart for God. So now you have to ask the question: Does God control each individual heart? Yes and No. 'From the foundation of the earth' Mankind's heart was created to be for God: Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. BUT we are given the choice whether or not to follow God. Every individual has to make that choice. Does God 'influence' people? OF COURSE-that's another topic.

Point #2: As I have said before and probably will say many times again-the answer is between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21. I think we all have Bibles here so I won't post the whole thing. :) One of many reasons we have the Bible is to study its HISTORY and apply it to our lives and try not to make the mistakes of our parents.

Point #3: "Predestination" as it is being presented does not pass the "flesh test"; if it appeals to my flesh-it probably isn't of God 99% of the time. The problem is I like the idea of this type of predestination doctrine. I like the thought that "GOD PICKED ME!" But now that would contradict the whole 'God is not a respecter of persons' doctrine wouldn't it?

Point #4: As I have already pointed out-human kind was 'predestined' to be in God's Glory from the beginning 'the foundation of the world'; but we can thank our great-grandparents to the nth degree that we are in the state we are currently in and for getting kicked out of the Garden.

Point #5: People a lot smarter than I have debated this subject to death and all you have to do is Google it.You can find pros and cons on both sides.

"One or another of these words is used on a number of occasions with respect to God’s choice (Acts 6:5; 13:17; 15:7; 1 Corinthians 1:27,28; Luke 18:17; Romans 8:33; etc.). Ephesians 1:4 says: “Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world for us to be holy and unblemished before him in love.” While reference is made here in the context to the act of choice being made before the foundation of the world, the context also indicates that the act of choice was as much centered on the kind of life style as on individuals. The passage is saying simply that God chose—before the foundation of the world—that those whom He would bless with every spiritual blessing would be the ones who would be holy and without blemish before Him in love. The election has to do with selecting or predetermining holy characteristics, not individuals." Page 3

THE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION, FOREORDINATION, AND ELECTION by
F. Furman Kearley, Ph.D. The Biblical Doctrine of Predestination ... - Apologetics Press

Point #6: 'Predestination' conflicts with a whole bunch of scripture & doctrines too numerous to list-so here is a short list:

1 Timothy 2:1-6
2 Peter 3:9
Acts 10:34-35
John 3:16
Matthew 28:18-20
Mark 16:15-16
Revelation 22:17

If you want to believe in the doctrine of predestination in this context, then of course you are at your own will to accept it.

I think this doctrine leads people-especially young Christians- to very dangerous ground. This is the type of thing that divides churches.This doctrine creates more questions than provides answers and drives people away from their faith.

At some point in all our lives we have to take a leap of faith out of the "law" and allow the spirit to guide you in your walk. This thing we debate is one of the mysteries of God that we will never fully comprehend here on this Earth. I don't have the space on this forum to even begin to explore this. My best advice is:

Worship, Read your Bible, Meditate, Pray, Fellowship and Repeat.

Does Paul contradict his own statements of predestination? We are commanded to preach to others so they can HEAR the Gospel so it can be a witness to truth for the spirit...

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Paul-Apostle to the Gentiles by Repentance -Pharisee by Education-Roman by Birth-Hebrew by Birth-Jew by Religion-Chief of Sinners by Confession
Click to expand...


In understanding 2 Thess. 2:13-14 which you quoted, "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation ",

The word in Greek used here is the same word used in 6 other places in Paul's epistle as a favorite term to show the continuation between the people of God in the Old Test. and the people of God in the New Test.

Verses 13 & 14 make up a compendium of the doctrine of dalvation where several significant redemptive concepts are given.

"Whereunto he called you by our gospel".= The CALLING here of God speaks to the choosing of God in verse 13.

Here is the key........God's call comes through the preaching of the gospel and that it results in "obtaining glory".

The word "Obtaining" means to "Attaining/Obtauning" but more specifically and more technically in the Bible it refers to God's creation of a people for Himself. In the Old Test. God made Israel a people for His own possession. That same idea in the New Test. has been applied to both Jews and Gentiles as they are brought into the body of believers shich then becomes a "people for God's own possession". (1 Thess. 5:9, 1 Peter 2:9, Mal 3:17.)
 
I don't reject the idea that humans/ mankind/ pre-serpent Adam & Eve were 'predestined' to be made in the image of Christ with His holy attributes AND selected to life in eternity with God in Heaven.

In this sense-YES God/ Christ predestined us to be as He is AND 'immortal'. Unfortunately sin got in the way.....

BUT this was the purpose & design of God from the beginning to allow us freedom of choice.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one Major?
 
Let me put this another way:

Lord please forgive me for oversimplifying your message.

It's like this; we humans on this earth in this time are in the interview process as applicants to Heaven. God is the one who will review the resumes and hire and fire applicants at the Throne of Judgement. All this nonsense around us is temporary, but this is our time to prepare for the eternal. It is at God's will-His good pleasure- to decide when to stop the application process. PRAISE BE TO GOD that He has not done that yet (although I would like of this planet ASAP!).

I am of the opinion that in His long suffering; when the day comes that there are no more viable applicants to apply, Christ will return as promised. It's not up us to pass judgement/ condemnation. We just have to meet the qualifications. We are being 'qualified' to use a Human Resources term. When humankind no longer has the heart to ask the Lord for His Love, Mercy & Grace-to see Him as the Creator-I think God might just blow the whistle on the game.

As Children of God-we are supposed to behave as such-obey our Father-and be examples-to be appealing to the lost. But if the salt has lost its savor, who will want to buy it? The falling of this Earth is not God's sin-it will be the Churches for not sharing the REAL Gospel by example.

Thankfully God is not like us and we humans still have the opportunity to seek His face.
 
Dirtyrottensinner said:
I don't reject the idea that humans/ mankind/ pre-serpent Adam & Eve were 'predestined' to be made in the image of Christ with His holy attributes AND selected to life in eternity with God in Heaven.

In this sense-YES God/ Christ predestined us to be as He is AND 'immortal'. Unfortunately sin got in the way.....

BUT this was the purpose & design of God from the beginning to allow us freedom of choice.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one Major?
Click to expand...

I do not see why that is the case DRS.

You said........

1. I don't reject the idea that humans/ mankind/ pre-serpent Adam & Eve were 'predestined' to be made in the image of Christ with His holy attributes AND selected to life in eternity with God in Heaven.

AGREED!

2. In this sense-YES God/ Christ predestined us to be as He is AND 'immortal'

AGREED!

3. BUT this was the purpose & design of God from the beginning to allow us freedom of choice.

AGREED!

See, that wan't so hard now was it???
 
Dirtyrottensinner said:
Let me put this another way:

Lord please forgive me for oversimplifying your message.

It's like this; we humans on this earth in this time are in the interview process as applicants to Heaven. God is the one who will review the resumes and hire and fire applicants at the Throne of Judgement. All this nonsense around us is temporary, but this is our time to prepare for the eternal. It is at God's will-His good pleasure- to decide when to stop the application process. PRAISE BE TO GOD that He has not done that yet (although I would like of this planet ASAP!).

I am of the opinion that in His long suffering; when the day comes that there are no more viable applicants to apply, Christ will return as promised. It's not up us to pass judgement/ condemnation. We just have to meet the qualifications. We are being 'qualified' to use a Human Resources term. When humankind no longer has the heart to ask the Lord for His Love, Mercy & Grace-to see Him as the Creator-I think God might just blow the whistle on the game.

As Children of God-we are supposed to behave as such-obey our Father-and be examples-to be appealing to the lost. But if the salt has lost its savor, who will want to buy it? The falling of this Earth is not God's sin-it will be the Churches for not sharing the REAL Gospel by example.

Thankfully God is not like us and we humans still have the opportunity to seek His face.
Click to expand...

The only differance I would see is that part of hireing and fireing/although I do understand what you are saying.

Jesus said........."Come unto me ALL that are heavy ladden and I will give you rest".
 
Major said:
The only differance I would see is that part of hireing and fireing/although I do understand what you are saying.

Jesus said........."Come unto me ALL that are heavy ladden and I will give you rest".
Click to expand...

So are you saying everyone will be saved then? That Hell is invalid? I don't understand your point? Are you saying the choice is made for us?

"Come unto me ALL that are heavy ladden and I will give you rest" 'Come' Requires action on our parts-an individual decision. Please clarify?
 
Dirtyrottensinner said:
So are you saying everyone will be saved then? That Hell is invalid? I don't understand your point? Are you saying the choice is made for us?

"Come unto me ALL that are heavy ladden and I will give you rest" 'Come' Requires action on our parts-an individual decision. Please clarify?
Click to expand...

NO! Are you kiddin me???

You mentioned hireing/fireing which I kind of thought you meant a 50- 50 chance of acceptance.......
and I simply was saying the differance with Christ is that ALL who come (Accept) Jesus as Lord will be saved. Oh well,


We both know that most will reject Christ and in fact populate hell.

Sorry to confuse, it was my fault all the way and in fact I was agreeing with you.
 
Apparently my post didn't post....unless it's somewhere else?

Major said:
NO! Are you kiddin me???

You mentioned hireing/fireing which I kind of thought you meant a 50- 50 chance of acceptance.......
and I simply was saying the differance with Christ is that ALL who come (Accept) Jesus as Lord will be saved. Oh well,


We both know that most will reject Christ and in fact populate hell.

Sorry to confuse, it was my fault all the way and in fact I was agreeing with you.
Click to expand...

So my question to you Major would be: do you agree that each individual must make a choice to follow or not to follow Christ lest they are ignorant of the Word?

Do you agree that an individual must take action to choose / accept the Lord; that it is in the individual's will to do so?
 
Dirtyrottensinner said:
Apparently my post didn't post....unless it's somewhere else?



So my question to you Major would be: do you agree that each individual must make a choice to follow or not to follow Christ lest they are ignorant of the Word?

Do you agree that an individual must take action to choose / accept the Lord; that it is in the individual's will to do so?
Click to expand...

Yes!

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begottten Son that whoseoevery beleaveth upon Him shall have eternaql life".

Acts 16 31-32
"What must I do to be saved; and they replied, believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ".
 
Wow, step away for a few days and so much has gone on. Predestination makes perfect sense to me, the Scriptures support it from end-to-end. If God is Sovereign than nothing can happen without Him having ordained it.

God doesn’t think in Linear Time; (i.e. one thought after another) as do we. God thinks all thoughts at once, infinite and eternal. God didn’t think the events for your life as your life happens, God has always known the events for your life, always and perfectly. Like I said previously, to understand Predestination you need to somewhat understand the Nature of God.

There are many pivotal decision in the Scriptures, one I can think of off-hand is Pontius Pilate’s decision to crucify Lord Jesus. Pilate could have just as easily said; “Set Jesus Free”.

If Jesus went free, than Jesus wouldn’t have been crucified during the Passover and so many other Biblical prophecies would have been unfulfilled, Jesus would have been recorded in the Scriptures as just another Prophet or even a Charlatan, we’d be dead in our sins, and still be awaiting the Messiah, and so much, so much more… I shudder at the thought.

God can never let MAN’s decisions to happen outside His providence, never-ever!

Like I said previous, we always act on our strongest desire; (Read Jonathan Edwards “Freedom of the Will”). God didn’t force the hand of Pilate but Pilate was acting on his strongest desire; (which at that particular time was to avoid trouble with Cesar), it was Pilate who did the choosing. However there was a whole series of providential events that lead Pilate to act on his strongest desire and that being God’s Will. Those providential events were set in motion by God and known to Him forever, perfectly!

If I will this is my own personal analogy on Free Will and Choice;

· YOU stand before two Doors; Door A and Door B.

· Behind one Door is something YOU desire.

· Behind the other Door is something YOU despise.

· YOU don’t know which Door is which so YOU cannot make a logical decision on which door to choose.

· I walk by and whisper in YOUR ear; “What YOU desire is behind Door A”.

Now are YOU the marionette and I the puppeteer? NO!

Did I violate YOUR Free Will? NO!

Who is it that does the choosing? YOU do the choosing!

Does this invalidate Predestination? NO! It’s God who wrote the desires on YOUR heart before the beginning of time, but it’s still YOU who does the choosing based on those desires.

Could you choose otherwise? NO! I’m sure God can counter with His Grace whatever Free Will you could muster up to choose otherwise, but if you don’t want God’s Grace than tell Him you don’t want it so you can be FREE.

I’m sure the intricacies on God’s interaction with MAN are much more complex but it’s the best my simple mind can come up with.

God places those desires on a MAN’s heart to choose Him, and it’s still MAN that does the choosing, but it’s God who first chose MAN by putting those desires there in the first place. Without the desire to choose God written on a MAN’s heart, that MAN will never choose God.

Now I have no idea why it keeps coming up but you will not find in anything I’ve written that we are to be selective about proclaiming the Gospel. If I stated once, I’ve stated a million times only God knows who the Elect are therefore the Gospel must be preached to all; (i.e. “External Call”), the “Internal Call” is the prerogative of God and God alone.






 
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