My Favorite Trinity Passage Of Scripture ... Wow!

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Nov 13, 2007
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Scriptures in terms of narrative speaks of three major characters who all claim to be God. We have Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Now scripture also tells us there is but one true God. So we sit with a dilema in that either scripture is contradictory, which would make Christianity a lie, or the three characters mentioned in scripture are in fact in one the same, hence we get the doctrine of the Trinity.

God referred to Himself as "I AM" but so did Jesus. The Old Testament declared that the Messiah would also be God.

The Holy Spirit in the OT is called "ruach" who in numerous occasions "filled" God's chosen people to do His will. The Holy Spirit in the NT is called "pneuma" which essentially is the Greek version of "ruach". He is often referred to as the Spirit of truth or the Spirit of God. Interestingly enough the only unpardonable sin is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and attribute His work to demons. Scripture clearly states that we can blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, which effectively would then give the Holy Spirit God status. The same goes for the fact that Jesus accepted worship. Scriptures say that we should only worship God. If Jesus accepted worship then either He was delusional, a lier or in fact God.

So we have three characters who make up the one true God. We have God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit

In terms of people who are demon influenced / possessed (which ever way we want to state it) it comes down to who does that person declare is Lord over their lives. Scriptures state that only people with the Holy Spirit can claim that Jesus is God and Lord over their lives. This will not only be evident in what they verbally declare but also in the way they serve Christ in their lives. I have met many people who know scripture quite well, but only from a knowledge perspective and they treat Christianity as a philosophy, to be studied alongside all the other philosophies of the world. Many universities teach theology, but they do it from an acedemic secular perspective and not from a Holy Spirit perspective. These people may have the word of God on their lips but their hearts are far from Him. Knowledge of God does not save, belief in Him and submitting our lives to Him is what saves. So it is often quite easy to see the difference between a person who knows scripture and a person who lives scripture.

When Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness, he used scripture to try and decieve Jesus. Satan had a theological knowledge of who the Messiah would be but he did not know the life giving Spirit behind scripture. Jesus immediately knew the truth and used the correct life giving application of scripture and defeated Satan by not yielding to the temptation.
 
Nov 13, 2007
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Coming back to Trinity passages, check out Ephesians chapter 1.

Paul celebrates in typical Jewish fashion and lists the blessings of God. If we read closely he first lists the blessings of God the Father, then the blessings of Jesus and finally the blessings of the Holy Spirit. Awesome!

Eph 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus.
Eph 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Blessings of God

Eph 1:3
Blessed bethe God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ;
Eph 1:4
according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of theworld, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Eph 1:5
having predestined us to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph 1:6
to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He has made us accepted in the One having been loved.
The Blessings of Jesus

Eph 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace,
Eph 1:8
which He caused to abound toward us in all wisdom and understanding;
Eph 1:9
having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
Eph 1:10
for an administration of the fullness of times, to head up all things in Christ, both the things in Heaven, and the things on earth, even in Him,
Eph 1:11
in whom also we have been chosen to an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His own will,
Eph 1:12
for us to be to the praise of His glory, who previously had trusted in Christ;

The Blessings of the Holy Spirit

Eph 1:13
in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14
who is the earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
 
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Sep 3, 2009
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Jesus never taught Trinity to the multitudes on dem dar hills.
If He had done so, they would have laughed Him back to Nazareth.
They didn't have the Holy Spirit to tell them it was the truth.

Ditto for His disciples until John 20:22.

And this all ties into why Jesus taught in parables so much.
Again, spiritual truth really is only for those to whom the Holy Spirit reveals it.
Do you think any unsaved person can understand the NT?
No one can understand the Bible who are not saved.

Even though the Trinity was not taught in the New Test. it still existeded before creation, the Old Test and and the New.
 
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Apr 6, 2012
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Coming back to Trinity passages, check out Ephesians chapter 1.
Thank you for your excellent posts.
For those, you deserve to receive a Special News Flash!
The entire book of Ephesians was written ONLY TO THE FAITHFUL.
All of those wonderful promises were not written to all who think they are Christians,
i.e. only the faithful are the elect, etc.
Kind of puts OSAS in its place, don't you think?
 
Apr 6, 2012
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Even though the Trinity was not taught in the New Test. ...
Jesus did teach it to His disciples ... please read post #1 again.

But, 'twas before they received the Holy Spirit (in John 20:21),
so (again, as usual) they didn't understand what He was talkin' about.
 
Thank you for your excellent posts.
For those, you deserve to receive a Special News Flash!
The entire book of Ephesians was written ONLY TO THE FAITHFUL.
All of those wonderful promises were not written to all who think they are Christians,
i.e. only the faithful are the elect, etc.
Kind of puts OSAS in its place, don't you think?
NEWSFLASH, the "faithful" consists of milk and meat eaters. The meat eaters Paul talked to of different things, than the Epistles which were written to milkies to help them become meat. SO, it being written to faithful or atheists is irrelevant.

MILK or MEAT is what is key to understanding.
 
Jesus did teach it to His disciples ... please read post #1 again.

But, 'twas before they received the Holy Spirit (in John 20:21),
so (again, as usual) they didn't understand what He was talkin' about.
already answered above and ignored. Hard to make claims of being right when you leave objections on the table. Annolunce it's going to be a lecture, not a discussion next time and I won't waste my time commenting. :) That's fair, isn't it?
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Jesus did teach it to His disciples ... please read post #1 again.

But, 'twas before they received the Holy Spirit (in John 20:21),
so (again, as usual) they didn't understand what He was talkin' about.
I can not agree to that my friend.

John 20:21 is NOT a teaching on the Trinity. The context there is "peace" because man has now been redeamed.
This is the rest of redemption, the PEACE of redemption.

Redeption is now accomplished. NOW Christ sends out the disciples as the Father had sent Him into the world.
 
Sep 3, 2009
12,402
5,049
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Florida
Thank you for your excellent posts.
For those, you deserve to receive a Special News Flash!
The entire book of Ephesians was written ONLY TO THE FAITHFUL.
All of those wonderful promises were not written to all who think they are Christians,
i.e. only the faithful are the elect, etc.
Kind of puts OSAS in its place, don't you think?
77,........."And to the faithful in Christ Jesus". These are the BELIEVERS. Believers and the Saints are the same thing my friend. A saint should be saintly and the believers should be faithful. A believer is one who has trusted Christ and a saint is the same one. The term saint is the GODWARD aspect of the Christian and the term believer is the MANWARD aspect of the Christian.

So as for Once saved always saved, it changes nothing and in fact reinforces the OSAS teaching IMO.

We always seem to see people who try to tell us what it means to be SAVED.

They come up with words like REDEMPTION, ATONEMENT, JUSTIFICATION, RECONCILIATION, PROPITIATION.
All those are good words, and mean wonderful things but each one merely teaches one aspect of salvation.

What does being SAVED really mean?? IT MEANS TO BE IN CHRIST!!!
 
Apr 6, 2012
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I can not agree to that my friend.
John 20:21 is NOT a teaching on the Trinity.
The context there is "peace" because man has now been redeamed.
This is the rest of redemption, the PEACE of redemption.
Redeption is now accomplished.
NOW Christ sends out the disciples as the Father had sent Him into the world.
Sorry, in post #28 I should have written John 20:22 ... not 20:21.
The disciples couldn't possibly have understood much up until 20:22,
if indeed, this is when they were born again.

Which would mean that what happened to them on the Day of Pentecost was not salvation.

What happened on that fateful day was they all received
the ANOINTING of the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
which was "the promise" and "the gift" for spiritual power and etc.
... absolutely necessary for successful evangelizing.

I have a question: In how many places above did I managed to lose you?
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Sorry, in post #28 I should have written John 20:22 ... not 20:21.
The disciples couldn't possibly have understood much up until 20:22,
if indeed, this is when they were born again.

Which would mean that what happened to them on the Day of Pentecost was not salvation.

What happened on that fateful day was they all received
the ANOINTING of the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
which was "the promise" and "the gift" for spiritual power and etc.
... absolutely necessary for successful evangelizing.

I have a question: In how many places above did I managed to lose you?
Agreed!

Now, Why would you ask ........
"In how many places above did I managed to lose you".
 
Sep 3, 2009
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This may explain it ...
What's your best estimate of the number of people saved out of the 120
at the first outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost?
NOPE.

Since they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost, and the indwelling of the HS is a condition of being saved, it would stand to reason that ALL of them would be the answer.

"They were ALL in one accord in one place (Acts 2:1).

That still does not answer WHY you asked:
"In how many places above did I manage to lose you?"
 
Apr 6, 2012
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San Diego
Since they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost, and the indwelling of the HS is a condition
of being saved, it would stand to reason that ALL of them would be the answer.
That still does not answer WHY you asked: "In how many places above did I manage to lose you?"
John 20:22 was when the 11 disciples received the Holy Spirit.
IMHO, this is when they were saved.
So, on the Day of Pentecost, out of the original 120 ... 109 (120-11) were saved.

A person may be filled with the Holy Spirit more than once.

And the beat goes on ... in how many places did I lose you?
 
Sep 3, 2009
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John 20:22 was when the 11 disciples received the Holy Spirit.
IMHO, this is when they were saved.
So, on the Day of Pentecost, out of the original 120 ... 109 (120-11) were saved.

A person may be filled with the Holy Spirit more than once.

And the beat goes on ... in how many places did I lose you?
John 20:22 was when the 11 disciples received the Holy Spirit.
IMHO, this is when they were saved.
So, on the Day of Pentecost, out of the original 120 ... 109 (120-11) were saved.

A person may be filled with the Holy Spirit more than once.

And the beat goes on ... in how many places did I lose you?
It seemed to me that you were being rather arrogant in your question and now you have confirmed that.

A person may be filled with the HS more than once......... but not when it comes to salvation my friend.

The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior.

1 Corth. 12:13 says.......
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.”

Romans 8:9.....tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ:
“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.”

Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe:
“Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.”

This discussion is controversial because the ministries of the Holy Spirit are often confused and I can seee where we are going with it. The receiving/indwelling of the Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation. The filling of the Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life. I believe that the baptism of the Spirit also occurs at the moment of salvation, some Christians do not. This sometimes results in the baptism of the Spirit being confused with “receiving the Spirit” as an act subsequent to salvation.

So, how do we receive the Holy Spirit? We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior as stated in John 3:5-16. When do we receive the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit becomes our permanent possession the moment we believe.
 
Apr 6, 2012
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I believe that the baptism of the Spirit also occurs at the moment of salvation, some Christians do not.
One simple question ...
How many people have you talked to who have received the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
which they testify is different than receiving the Spirit for salvation?
 
Sep 3, 2009
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One simple question ...
How many people have you talked to who have received the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
which they testify is different than receiving the Spirit for salvation?
One very simple answer.......All that I have ever spoken to have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

They ALL knew that the Holy Ghost indwelled them at the moment of salvation!

Did you not read comment #38????
 
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