My Favorite Trinity Passage Of Scripture ... Wow!

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Nov 13, 2007
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I see the baptism of the Holy Spirit like this:

Firstly Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to all believers (not just the Pentecostal and Charasmatics). BTW I am Pentecostal. Jesus said He would not leave us orphans. The second we believe in Jesus we recieve the Holy Spirit - what happens afterwards is where the debate rages. The gifts of the Spirit are for the purpose to empower ministry - as long as we remian in service to Jesus, His Holy Spirit will continue to fill us with "power" to fulfill His purposes in ministry
 
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Apr 6, 2012
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One very simple answer.......All that I have ever spoken to have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
They ALL knew that the Holy Ghost indwelled them at the moment of salvation!
Then thou hasn't spoken to anyone who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit.
This is still the experience, even today ...
Acts 19:
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them,
and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

The NT Scriptures link this baptism with tongues in other verses also.

This baptism of ANOINTING is only about the Holy Spirit coming UPON the believer.
There are 7 verses which teach this fact.
But, some people don't believe in Scripture ... instead they prefer to believe in church doctrine.

It's not too late to get with the program.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Then thou hasn't spoken to anyone who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit.
This is still the experience, even today ...
Acts 19:
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them,
and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

The NT Scriptures link this baptism with tongues in other verses also.

This baptism of ANOINTING is only about the Holy Spirit coming UPON the believer.
There are 7 verses which teach this fact.
But, some people don't believe in Scripture ... instead they prefer to believe in church doctrine.

It's not too late to get with the program.
Not so my young friend. You are expousing Denominational theology NOT Biblical Theology.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a term used to describe a movement of the Spirit upon and/or within abeliever. There is controversy surrounding this phenomenon as to whether it is legitimate or not. Some people believe that once a person is saved the Holy Spirit is in the person and there is no subsequent "baptism in the Holy Spirit." In other words, they maintain that this Baptism of the Spirit occurs at salvation. Others believe that it is possible for the Christian to experience an additional movement of the Holy Spirit sometime after salvation. Historically speaking, it is the charismatic movement that supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit sometime after accepting Christ. Historically, this Denomionational teaching did not appear until the 1900's and was never taught in the tridition Christian faiths.

You can not just use the verse you like and ignore the others.

1 Corth. 12:13.......
"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[one Spirit."

The term "baptize with the Holy Spirit" occurs several times in scripture:

Matt. 3:11, "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."
Mark 1:8, "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."Luke 3:16, "John answered and said to them all, 'As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."
John 1:33, "And I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, "He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the one who baptizes in the Holy Spirit."Acts 1:5, "for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Acts 11:16, "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

Romans 6:1-4 says,
"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

So then, the Biblical teaching of baptism in the Holy Spirit does two things.

1). It identifies us spiritually with the death and resurrection of Christ, uniting us with Him.
2). Baptism in the Holy Spirit joins us to the body of Christ, and identifies us as united with other believers.

Practically, baptism in the Holy Spirit means we are risen with Him to newness of life (Romans 6:4), and that we should exercise our spiritual gifts to keep the body of Christ functioning properly as stated in 1 Corinthians 12:13.

Every believer in the Lord Jesus Christ has experienced baptism in the Holy Spirit. That is why Paul could state, "For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body… we were all given the one Spirit to drink".

Study your Bible to be approved my friend not Denominational thinking or religious propaganda.
 
Apr 6, 2012
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(1) Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a term used to describe a movement of the Spirit
upon and/or within a believer.
There is controversy surrounding this phenomenon as to whether it is legitimate or not.

(2) Some people believe that once a person is saved the Holy Spirit is in the person
and there is no subsequent "baptism in the Holy Spirit."
In other words, they maintain that this Baptism of the Spirit occurs at salvation.

(3) Others believe that it is possible for the Christian to experience an additional movement of the Holy Spirit sometime after salvation. Historically speaking, it is the charismatic movement that supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit sometime after accepting Christ. Historically, this Denomionational teaching did not appear until the 1900's and was never taught in the tridition Christian faiths.
Preface
There is quite a difference between INSIDE and UPON.
If your 4 kids sat UPON you, you'd survive okay ... not so, if they went INSIDE you.
Even more so, if your wife joined dem.

(1) In the OT, the Spirit fell UPON those prophets who God desired to ANOINT.
Ditto with the NT.
Dozens of verses says the born-again believer has the Spirit INSIDE.
No one who just has the Holy Spirit INSIDE is anointed.
Legitimate phenomenon ... you'd better be asking the MANY millions all over the world
who have actually experienced it.

(2) I suppose you might imagine WHY these people do NOT believe in a subsequent baptism.
Da answer is: they don't have it, they don't want to accept it's possibility, and multitudes of etc.
Please you and your wife use your imaginations.
Dis pathetic situation has been continued on for hundreds of years for many reasons.
God never anointed da people controlling the orthodox churches with this baptism.
God has a tough time saving, anointing, etc. people who don't believe ... He hates unbelief.

(3) Joel in 2:28+ prophesied that God would pour out His Spirit ON all kinds of flesh, etc.
This last of the last days started about 100 years ago.
I don't care about traditional Christian faiths ... I care about what Scripture and the Holy Spirit teach.
 
Apr 6, 2012
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We will have to stand as being in disagreement on this.
You might consider:
1) explaining WHY you do not agree with my points.
2) talking to maybe 5 of the MANY millions who know da truth about this.
Hint: Go around asking in da appropriate places, "Have you been baptised with the Holy Spirit?"
And see what happens.
Dis, of course, is only if you desire to find out the truth.

There are 5 people in this world I feel sorry for.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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You might consider:
1) explaining WHY you do not agree with my points.
2) talking to maybe 5 of the MANY millions who know da truth about this.
Hint: Go around asking in da appropriate places, "Have you been baptised with the Holy Spirit?"
And see what happens.
Dis, of course, is only if you desire to find out the truth.

There are 5 people in this world I feel sorry for.
1.
Your opiinions are not Biblical truth but instead are Denominational teaching. Do you think you are the first person who believes the AOG teaching to try and enlighten us all?

2.
I do not have to go to the appropriate places and ask anyone. Why would I take the opinions of a man over the Word of God.

3.
The truth is NOT what man says but what God says.

Your arrogance is not a form of Christianity my friend. People read what you say and YOU are not presenting a Christian attitude to those people. How can you be such a bold speaker of the Bible and know nothing of what it says.

2 Tim. 2:22
"Flee also youthful lusts, but follow righteousness, faith, love, peace with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart".

Titus 2:7-8
7 in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach."

IS THAT YOU??? DO YOU DO THAT???
Do you really feel sorry for me or are you just mad because I do not agree with you?
 
Apr 6, 2012
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Sure I feel sorry for you and yours ... because you are ignorant.
You believe blind faith triumphs over all, i.e. your spiritual experiences do not "prove" this baptism to be false.

You just have blind faith against this baptism ... God knows why!
Muslims and etc. also have blind faith in their doctrines.
Were you like most Muslims ... born into your centuries-old doctrinal garbage?
You are brainwashed ... with no open mind to this spiritual truth.

MANY MILLIONS all over the world have their spiritual experiences to confirm the truth about this baptism.
YOUR only recourse is to say this baptism (with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues) is from Satan.

The Christians doing the most powerful evangelism in these last days are the pentecostals and charismatics.
So, another question (that you have no answer for) is ... why would Satan do this?
Do you believe people coming to the Lord through signs and wonders confirming the gospel are not saved?
Jesus and Paul did it this way, but we are not supposed to do it this way also?

This ignorance is all because of the historical garbage interpretation of 1 Cor 13:10?
And peoples' blind faith in it. And Satan's tremendous influence!
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Stop with the personal attacks. Stop calling each other ignorant, brainwashed, arrogant, etc. If you disagree with each other, stick to making your case with substantive points. Neither of you is likely to be pursuaded to adopt the other's viewpoint, certainly not by exchanging insults. Resorting to insults and attacks and put-downs only weakens your case for those who may be following the discussion. It encourages people to take sides rather than thoughtfully consider the perspectives being offered.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Stop with the personal attacks. Stop calling each other ignorant, brainwashed, arrogant, etc. If you disagree with each other, stick to making your case with substantive points. Neither of you is likely to be pursuaded to adopt the other's viewpoint, certainly not by exchanging insults. Resorting to insults and attacks and put-downs only weakens your case for those who may be following the discussion. It encourages people to take sides rather than thoughtfully consider the perspectives being offered.
I agree completly! Please see comment #45.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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To get back on topic and the OP, the concept of the Trinity is shown in the very first verse in the Bible. Gen 1:1
"In the beginning, GOD created the heavens and the earth"
GOD in Hebrew, is 'elohiym, and this word is a masculine noun, plural intensive with a singular meaning. It conveys the concept of a triune God which is later indicated in verse 26, where God says, "Let US create man in OUR image".
We are a triune being, Body, Mind and Soul, just as God is a triune being in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Why people fight this concept is beyond me. Why people compare our God to ANY other so-called god is also beyond me. Our God is unique and different than ANY concept man has had or will have. OUR God is an awesome GOD!
 
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Sep 16, 2011
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We receive the fullness of the God-head when we are saved (Col 2:9). Is the Holy Spirit not part of the God-Head?

The ''gift'' of ''receiving the Holy Spirit'' is to be seen as us receiving His 'physical' presence. The best example I can think of is my mother in law. She became my mother in law when I got married, but now she has come to stay with me and my wife and we have the gift of her presence in our house.
 
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We receive the fullness of the God-head when we are saved (Col 2:9). Is the Holy Spirit not part of the God-Head?

The ''gift'' of ''receiving the Holy Spirit'' is to be seen as us receiving His 'physical' presence. The best example I can think of is my mother in law. She became my mother in law when I got married, but now she has come to stay with me and my wife and we have the gift of her presence in our house.
I'm sorry KingJ, but I disagree. We receive salvation when we are saved, and the Holy Spirit, with the initial EVIDENCE of speaking in tongues afterwards. The scriptures make it clear, that it is a separate process, just as water baptism is. Nothing to do with salvation, except that we have to be saved in order to proceed through both processes.
It's nice to see you feel your MIL is a gift, but the analogy does not fit, as these things are spiritual in nature and are not subject to ANY phjysical laws. Col 2:9 has nothing to do with salvation, but with who Christ is and our standing with Him in our lives.
 
Sep 16, 2011
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I'm sorry KingJ, but I disagree. We receive salvation when we are saved, and the Holy Spirit, with the initial EVIDENCE of speaking in tongues afterwards. The scriptures make it clear, that it is a separate process, just as water baptism is. Nothing to do with salvation, except that we have to be saved in order to proceed through both processes.
It's nice to see you feel your MIL is a gift, but the analogy does not fit, as these things are spiritual in nature and are not subject to ANY phjysical laws. Col 2:9 has nothing to do with salvation, but with who Christ is and our standing with Him in our lives.
For you to disagree with me you have to either believe 1) Salvation is not tied to receiving Jesus or 2) the Holy Spirit is not part of the God-head. Please clarify, which is it?

but the analogy does not fit, as these things are spiritual in nature and are not subject to ANY phjysical laws
Family analogy fits 100%. God is our Father and Jesus our groom.
 
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Nov 13, 2007
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I'm sorry KingJ, but I disagree. We receive salvation when we are saved, and the Holy Spirit, with the initial EVIDENCE of speaking in tongues afterwards. The scriptures make it clear, that it is a separate process, just as water baptism is. Nothing to do with salvation, except that we have to be saved in order to proceed through both processes.
It's nice to see you feel your MIL is a gift, but the analogy does not fit, as these things are spiritual in nature and are not subject to ANY phjysical laws. Col 2:9 has nothing to do with salvation, but with who Christ is and our standing with Him in our lives.
Hi Stan,

In regards to the evidence of the Holy Spirit, it is better to look toward the fruit of the Spirit in a persons life - especially in the outworking of love, which is the greatest gift while tongues is actually the least of the gifts.

In many Charasmatic churches they teach that the evidence of the the Holy Spirit is shown by the gift of tongues. When we compare this teaching to scripture, there is a clear pattern that people in the 1st century church did in fact display this gift right after salvation, there is a genuine pattern in scripture. However Paul, when he was addressing the abuse of the gifts, through pride, in the Corinthian church clearly states that not all people speak in tongues but they recieve other gifts. The Spirit gives as He sees fit, not according to our doctrinal preferences.

Paul states that he wishes all men speak in tongues like he does - this implies clearly that not all spoke in tongues and it does not indicate they did not have the Holy Spirit.

A careful study of 1 Corinthians shows that the Holy Spirit gives gifts according to His purpose and for the common good. i.e. building the church. The gift of tongues is the least of the gifts, simply because it edifies self and not the church, unless it is interpreted. Paul tells us to strive after the better gifts of which love is the greatest.

When churches preach that the evidence of the Holy Spirit is tongues, they are actually putting some people in a place of judgement. I know of plenty Holy Spirit filled people who do not speak in tongues - they have been given the greater gifts. Why? Because the Holy Spirit wills it. As a church we need to put aside our pride (thinking our gifts are better or worse than others) and strive to be a BODY made up of many parts, but each part being vital.

There are people on this forum, who do not speak in tongues, but I can clearly see (after spending much time here and getting to know people) that they have the 'greater gifts' like teaching, discernment and being spiritual fathers to the newer believers.

Receiving the Holy Spirit happens the second we are saved, but recieving the gifts is an ongoing development as the Holy Spirit wills. Today I may speak in tongues, yet tomorrow I may become a teacher and next year I could become a prophet. Only the Spirit knows and only He distributes power into ministry as He sees fit. If we do not show genuine love for one another then He probably wont supply any of the greater gifts until we can show we will use them to His glory and to strenghten the church, not divide it.

Please read the chapter below and pay careful attention to the following verses: 3; 4; 7-11; 25-26; 29-30.

God bless





1Co 12:1

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I would not have you ignorant.
1Co 12:2
You know that being led away, you nations were led to dumb idols.
1Co 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says Jesus is a curse, and that no one can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
1Co 12:4
But there are differences of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5
And there are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6
And there are differences of workings, but it is the same God working all things in all.
1Co 12:7
But to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.
1Co 12:8
For through the Spirit is given to one a word of wisdom; and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9
and to another faith by the same Spirit; and to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10
and to another workings of powers, to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; and to another kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11
But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each one as He desires.
1Co 12:12
For as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13
For also by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, even all were made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14
For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15
If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16
And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17
If all the body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If all hearing, where would be the smelling?
1Co 12:18
But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body as it has pleased Him.
1Co 12:19
And if they were all one member, where would be the body?
1Co 12:20
But now indeed many are the members, yet only one body.
1Co 12:21
And the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of you; nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22
But much rather the members of the body seeming to be weaker are necessary.
1Co 12:23
And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we put more abundant honor around them. And our unpresentable members have more abundant propriety.
1Co 12:24
For our presentable members have no need, but God tempered the body together, giving more abundant honor to the member having need;
1Co 12:25
that there not be division in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another.
1Co 12:26
And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is glorified, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co 12:27
And you are the body of Christ, and members in part.
1Co 12:28
And God set some in the church, firstly, apostles; secondly, prophets; thirdly, teachers, then works of power, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, kinds of languages.
1Co 12:29
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of power?
1Co 12:30
Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak languages? Do all interpret?
1Co 12:31
But zealously strive after the better gifts. And yet I show to you a more excellent way.
 
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I'm sorry KingJ, but I disagree. We receive salvation when we are saved, and the Holy Spirit, with the initial EVIDENCE of speaking in tongues afterwards. The scriptures make it clear, that it is a separate process, just as water baptism is. Nothing to do with salvation, except that we have to be saved in order to proceed through both processes.
It's nice to see you feel your MIL is a gift, but the analogy does not fit, as these things are spiritual in nature and are not subject to ANY phjysical laws. Col 2:9 has nothing to do with salvation, but with who Christ is and our standing with Him in our lives.
I have to disagree with you Stan.

If we accepted your thinking, which by the way is not Biblical, how would you explain to a dieing persons family that although their mama accepted the Lord on her death bed, the fact that because they died before they spoke in an unknown tongue, they were not saved at all.???

Then there is this thought, WHY do we need EVIDENCE to prove our salvation?

The only two people who know anyone is saved is the person who is saved and God Himself. Personally I have never and will never produce any EVIDENCE of my salvation. I have always allowed the way I live my life to be my evidence of being saved.

The Bible says that "whatsoever is not of faith is sin".

The Bible also says that "tongues" are for non-believers, not believers.( 1 Corth. 14)
 
Sep 3, 2009
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For you to disagree with me you have to either believe 1) Salvation is not tied to receiving Jesus or 2) the Holy Spirit is not part of the God-head. Please clarify, which is it?

Family analogy fits 100%. God is our Father and Jesus our groom.
I understood your example and I agree with you.
 
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For you to disagree with me you have to either believe 1) Salvation is not tied to receiving Jesus or 2) the Holy Spirit is not part of the God-head. Please clarify, which is it?
Neither. First Col 2:9 is about who Jesus is, NOT our salvation. Secondly we accept who Jesus is in God's plan for us. He is our Saviour. His blood IS our redemption. Thirdly we receive the Holy Spirit as an Advocate to the Father. He infills us for strength, power and to remind us of Jesus and His Words. As we grow in jesus, The Holy Spirit also brings into mind God's Word.

Family analogy fits 100%. God is our Father and Jesus our groom.
Not for me my friend. God is our Father and we become joint heirs with Christ when we receive Him. Jesus is the churches groom, which we are collectively. That is a spiritual fact and one reson for the Second Coming. As individuals, we are the sons and daughters of God.
 
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Hi Stan,

In regards to the evidence of the Holy Spirit, it is better to look toward the fruit of the Spirit in a persons life - especially in the outworking of love, which is the greatest gift while tongues is actually the least of the gifts.

In many Charasmatic churches they teach that the evidence of the the Holy Spirit is shown by the gift of tongues. When we compare this teaching to scripture, there is a clear pattern that people in the 1st century church did in fact display this gift right after salvation, there is a genuine pattern in scripture. However Paul, when he was addressing the abuse of the gifts, through pride, in the Corinthian church clearly states that not all people speak in tongues but they recieve other gifts. The Spirit gives as He sees fit, not according to our doctrinal preferences.

Paul states that he wishes all men speak in tongues like he does - this implies clearly that not all spoke in tongues and it does not indicate they did not have the Holy Spirit.

A careful study of 1 Corinthians shows that the Holy Spirit gives gifts according to His purpose and for the common good. i.e. building the church. The gift of tongues is the least of the gifts, simply because it edifies self and not the church, unless it is interpreted. Paul tells us to strive after the better gifts of which love is the greatest.

When churches preach that the evidence of the Holy Spirit is tongues, they are actually putting some people in a place of judgement. I know of plenty Holy Spirit filled people who do not speak in tongues - they have been given the greater gifts. Why? Because the Holy Spirit wills it. As a church we need to put aside our pride (thinking our gifts are better or worse than others) and strive to be a BODY made up of many parts, but each part being vital.

There are people on this forum, who do not speak in tongues, but I can clearly see (after spending much time here and getting to know people) that they have the 'greater gifts' like teaching, discernment and being spiritual fathers to the newer believers.

Receiving the Holy Spirit happens the second we are saved, but recieving the gifts is an ongoing development as the Holy Spirit wills. Today I may speak in tongues, yet tomorrow I may become a teacher and next year I could become a prophet. Only the Spirit knows and only He distributes power into ministry as He sees fit. If we do not show genuine love for one another then He probably wont supply any of the greater gifts until we can show we will use them to His glory and to strenghten the church, not divide it.

Please read the chapter below and pay careful attention to the following verses: 3; 4; 7-11; 25-26; 29-30.

God bless


Thanks Kevin, but I know all this scripture very well.. What I said, was that "tongues" is the 'initial' evidence. NOT the ONLY, and it doesn't end there. The "tongues" received at the time of being infilled by the Holy Spirit is our spirit communicating and praising God. It is NOT the same as in a corporate church setting, which Paul does address in 1Cor 12 & 14.
Paul says LIKE he does, which means he did a LOT. It doesn't mean some did not. I know a lot of Christians who do NOT speak in tongues as much as I do and a lot more who speak in tongues more than I do. This 'tongues' which Paul talks about in 1Cor 14:5 & 18 (which BTW you combined in your statements above), is for the corporate setting. It is not the same as tongues used in private prayer. This is well known to those who do excercise the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. It is meant to be looked at positively, not negatively.

Expositing the Word of God, is NOT casting judgment on people. Would you like a newly saved sorcerer running around saying He was able to bring the Holy Spirit to believers? Acts 8:13-24
How did Simon know this? The same way those in Acts 10:44-45 did, they heard them speaking in tongues. as identified in Acts 10:46

It is evidence, just as Peter and John identified the lack of true repentance in Simon the sorcerer's life, when he asked for the ability to lay hands on people and have them receiv e the Holy Spirit. Simon did NOT show the initial evidence of a changed life, even though he believed.

BTW, 1 Cor 12:31, does say BETTER GIFTS...see the following;

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Cor 12:31&version=NIV;MOUNCE;NASB;HCSB;PHILLIPS

You are right about 1 Cor 13; it is a more excellant or better way to walk in Christ.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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I have to disagree with you Stan.

If we accepted your thinking, which by the way is not Biblical, how would you explain to a dieing persons family that although their mama accepted the Lord on her death bed, the fact that because they died before they spoke in an unknown tongue, they were not saved at all.???

Then there is this thought, WHY do we need EVIDENCE to prove our salvation?

The only two people who know anyone is saved is the person who is saved and God Himself. Personally I have never and will never produce any EVIDENCE of my salvation. I have always allowed the way I live my life to be my evidence of being saved.

The Bible says that "whatsoever is not of faith is sin".

The Bible also says that "tongues" are for non-believers, not believers.( 1 Corth. 14)
Well there's your problem in understanding this issue. The infilling of the Holy Spirit is NOT, I repeat NOT a requirement of salvation. Where did you get that idea? Not from me my friend.

We do need evidence to prove our salvation. Read James. As I just showed above, read Acts 8 and the so-called salvation of Simon the sorcerer. Why do you think people get water baptised? Is it not to confirm one's confession of Christ as Saviour?

Paul says the corporate use of tongues is meant to be for unbelievers and that is a fact. Again people who do not have the Holy Spirit or do not understand the nuances of having Him in our lives, don't get it.

This issue is a matter of reality, NOT scriptural semantics. You either have the Holy Spirit and it is evidenced by the same thing as scripture shows, or you don't. Just like salvation...a very simple fact.
 
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