New Birth, Not Religion

LS, wait before you answer, in my exuberance I forgot my manners.

Major, this is your thread and my question could/can be viewed as a hijack, so, in respect to you I'm asking our brother to refrain until you give an answer, in the affirmative or negative.

Gene
 
Well Gene, I don’t think my testimony into the Catholic faith is a very heartfelt or incredible one, but here it is.

As far back as I can remember, I had always considered myself to be a Christian, and I always will. I give credit especially to my family and to the Navigators Youth Bible Study for helping me hang onto it in high school.

As I got older and toward the end of college, I held onto my faith, but I could tell it was slipping and I became apathetic. I began to struggle with doubts as my environment seemed to become more increasingly atheist and anti-religious. I would ask my pastors and friends theological questions and they just didn’t seem to answer be able to really answer them—it often lead to “Pray and read your Bible.”

After I had been dating this girl I met in English class (who I eventually fell in love with and seven years later married), her brother Fito and I became great friends and roommates. He was and still is one of the smartest guys I have ever known. But while I was struggling with doubts, I was blown away by his interaction with Atheists. I never knew anyone like him growing up. My Christian friends had so much compassion and Biblical knowledge, but Fito had something many of them didn’t seem to offer, which was when emotions fluctuate, intellectual truth will always stand still, even among the most skeptical, hard-headed, and convincing arguments against theology. I’d see Atheists try to corner him about his faith, and within 5 minutes, he had them cornered.

Fito was big into Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, C.S. Lewis, Augustine, and Dominic. In college, I was so discouraged with all of the anti-religious rhetoric that Christians are stupid, gullible, crazy, bigoted, naïve, and lack reason. Fito and I would stay up for hours and he would go into depth about why it’s actually atheism itself that lacks reason. We’d talk about cosmology, Dawkins and Hitchens, how something can’t come from nothing, etc. It rejuvenated my faith in God and it brought back a great sense of credibility to the scriptures I read.

But how did I get from Protestantism to Catholicism? When I reached my point of knowing God was absolutely true, it was time I approach my faith like a man instead of like the kid I once was. I wanted to learn about the earliest days of Christianity, the reformation, Martin Luther, and the Papacy. I wanted to learn about from where and when the different denominations came.

As a protestant, I was always under the impression that the reformers were actually the traditionalists and that the Roman Catholics had perverted the Church Christ founded. As I read, I came to find that the Christian teaching I was brought up with was considered to be heresy even by the earliest Protestants, not just Catholics. John Calvin considered Helvitius to be a heretic on the basis of things that fellow Protestants and I overwhelmingly believed in, like that Mary wasn’t always a virgin. I was concerned that the scriptures were becoming more about our own personal interpretations and not about the truth. Martin Luther said, “There are as many theologies as there are heads.” It was a matter of who was the final authority of the interpretation of the scriptures. In Protestantism, everyone was. But how? I had met so many Protestants who had total disagreements on interpretation—both can’t be right.

Now that I had a solid foundation for the existence of God, I didn’t want to do Him wrong and offend Him. I researched and prayed, and everything seemed to direct me more and more to Catholicism. It bothered me because I wanted Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura to be the right thing because they were comfortable, but the right thing trumps comfort. But when I got close to that, I had to ask the questions that I was especially concerned about; "Do Catholics worship Mary and the saints?" "Why confess your sins to a priest when God is always listening?" "What's with the Eucharist?" "What’s with Purgatory?" "Do Catholics believe you have to work your way into heaven?" The answers I found brought so much clarity to the scriptures, but luckily for me, continued to provide Christ His dignity and role as the only one worthy of worship (I don’t think I’d ever be a Catholic if it meant giving anyone beyond Him worship). I read more about the early Church fathers, their roles after Christ ascended into Heaven, and the some of the people who studied under them like St. Ignatius of Antioch--legend is that the child Jesus called to in Matthew 18:2 was Ignatius. (I highly recommend checking out his letters. Incredible stuff).

So I after much prayer, scripture reading, and research, I became a Catholic. My faith has never been stronger and my relationship with God has never been closer.


There’s probably a lot I left out, but I don’t want to make this testimony a novel. :p
 
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Thanks LS, I appreciate that and I understand where you are coming from, ...I was saved in a "denomination" church and as I read my Bible I came to see the pulpit was being used to take shots at the people that criticized the pastor, after two years there I prayed for the Lord to place me where He wanted me to be and He moved me about 10 hours driving time from my first church to a tiny church of about 35 people, it was there I learned about grace and experienced first hand the love of Christ manifested through his kids.

I was only in, what people call, "organized" churches for the first four years of my walk and then the Lord told me to come here, man that was a mind blower, in my second church there just happened (?) to be two pastors and one of them took me under his wing because I was so messed up with denominational theology and doctrine, ...most of the time, when I asked him questions, he would just tell me to read my Bible, give me a verse and let the Lord speak to my heart, but here, there wasn't anyone to talk to, not only was there a language barrier (that was a trip, when the Lord presented my bride to me we communicated with my English-French dictionary, imagine proposing with a dictionary, bless her heart, but that's a whole 'nother story), but the few English speaking brothers here were in a denominational church and believed like I did at first, so when the question always came up of what brought me here, how did I arrive here, when I told the the story of the Lord giving me three conditions to come here and how He fulfilled each one of them, it was like I was talking gibberish to them.

Before I came here in reading the story of Joesph I felt the Lord telling me I was going to go to prison, I didn't really believe it though, until I read the story of Joesph after I arrived and the Lord told me again I was going to be in prison, that was scary, ..come to find out I was in solitary confinement, but what I came to learn is that my prison wasn't so bad after all, the Lord was with me and from what my pastor-friend had taught me about letting the Lord speak to me, I began to put it to practical use and I found in every situation, trial or temptation there would be a verse that would flow through my mind, if I chose to believe/receive/appropriate and use it I would be an overcomer, if I rejected it for my own reasoning and/or logic I would fail miserably and would not pass GO, but rather go back to Kaddish-Barnea to take the test again.

So from this brief exposition of my walk with the Lord I hope you can see where I'm coming from with my question, I'm still in prison, so I can't change my "belief system/denomination" (for lack of a better word to express/describe what you have done), but I'm no longer in solitary confinement, the Lord is bringing His children into my cell and we are worshiping Him together in Spirit and Truth and growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. PTL

Again, thanks for you response, ...if you're interested I have a couple of miraculous stories concerning a Catholic couple that were in my second church who the Lord used to minister to me here, but I don't know where the appropriate place would be to post them.

Blessings,

Gene
 
Ok, here is the next installment in my contribution to the discussion of James on this thread. It may be a few days after this before I can continue.

In addition to being addressed to the nation of Israel, the Epistle of James also contains a number of references to the Great Tribulation which can be easily passed over if the student of scripture doesn't read James very carefully and compare scripture with scripture. The first of these is found James 1:12:
"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."
When we compare scripture with scripture, it is revealed that scripture terms the Tribulation as an hour of temptation. John writes
in Revelation 3:10:
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Both James and John use the Greek word "peirasmos", which the KJV translates as "temptation".
Moving into James chapter 2, we find much troubling material if we do not understand the Dispensational character of the book. In chapter 2, James equates poverty with salvation, while identifying the rich as the persecutors of the saints, and therefore as being lost. Divorced from it's Dispensational context, this chapter could be used to promote false teachings of various types. James 2:5:
"Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?"
We should note here that the righteous will receive a kingdom at the end of the Great Tribulation when Jesus has returned. Matthew 25:31,34
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory....
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."
The fact that it is the poor who are the ones to inherit the kingdom of Christ is also indicative of the Tribulational context of the book. Scripture makes it apparent that poverty must of necessity be the lot of those who refuse to serve the Beast in the last days. No matter how much money they may possess, their money will be rendered worthless if they refuse to accept the mark of the Beast. Without the mark, it will be impossible for them to buy or sell anything. Hence, they will be effectively reduced to total, abject poverty. Revelation 13:16,17:
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."
On the other hand, those who serve the Beast faithfully will receive their reward, and will be the persecutors of the poor righteous who are to inherit the kingdom. James 2:6,7:
"But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?"
This is the reason why you read so much in the Psalms of the 'wicked' (a title of the AntiChrist in II Thessalonians 2) persecuting the 'poor'. Much of the Psalms have a eschatological application to the Jewish remnant in those days. The 'rich' in that day will join with "that wicked" in blaspheming Christ. Revelation 13:6:
"And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."
 
Wow--thanks for sharing Gene. Thank God your grew closer to Him.

I'm happy to listen. You can always send me a personal message (start conversation).
 
LS, wait before you answer, in my exuberance I forgot my manners.

Major, this is your thread and my question could/can be viewed as a hijack, so, in respect to you I'm asking our brother to refrain until you give an answer, in the affirmative or negative.

Gene

Not so Gene. This thread belongs to Mr. Darby.

IMO it is a forum and the Holy Spirit moves us to different avenues of conversation BUT that is just me.

See ya!
 
Ok, here is the next installment in my contribution to the discussion of James on this thread. It may be a few days after this before I can continue.

In addition to being addressed to the nation of Israel, the Epistle of James also contains a number of references to the Great Tribulation which can be easily passed over if the student of scripture doesn't read James very carefully and compare scripture with scripture. The first of these is found James 1:12:
"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."
When we compare scripture with scripture, it is revealed that scripture terms the Tribulation as an hour of temptation. John writes
in Revelation 3:10:
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Both James and John use the Greek word "peirasmos", which the KJV translates as "temptation".
Moving into James chapter 2, we find much troubling material if we do not understand the Dispensational character of the book. In chapter 2, James equates poverty with salvation, while identifying the rich as the persecutors of the saints, and therefore as being lost. Divorced from it's Dispensational context, this chapter could be used to promote false teachings of various types. James 2:5:
"Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?"
We should note here that the righteous will receive a kingdom at the end of the Great Tribulation when Jesus has returned. Matthew 25:31,34
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory....
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."
The fact that it is the poor who are the ones to inherit the kingdom of Christ is also indicative of the Tribulational context of the book. Scripture makes it apparent that poverty must of necessity be the lot of those who refuse to serve the Beast in the last days. No matter how much money they may possess, their money will be rendered worthless if they refuse to accept the mark of the Beast. Without the mark, it will be impossible for them to buy or sell anything. Hence, they will be effectively reduced to total, abject poverty. Revelation 13:16,17:
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."
On the other hand, those who serve the Beast faithfully will receive their reward, and will be the persecutors of the poor righteous who are to inherit the kingdom. James 2:6,7:
"But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?"
This is the reason why you read so much in the Psalms of the 'wicked' (a title of the AntiChrist in II Thessalonians 2) persecuting the 'poor'. Much of the Psalms have a eschatological application to the Jewish remnant in those days. The 'rich' in that day will join with "that wicked" in blaspheming Christ. Revelation 13:6:
"And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."

I do hope that all of you are reading Mr. Darby's imput here on James. It is concise and excellent!

Thanks Mr. D! You are blessing me.

ps........Just to confirm what you are presenting, when we read the Revelation and consider the Tribulation saints, we see that the gospel changes at that time to faith plus works, IMHO.

Rev. 14:9
"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, if any man worship the beast and his image AND RECEIVE HIS MARK IN HIS FORHEAD OR IN HIS HAND, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God".

Does that say to you that faith is combined with works during the Tribulation because one must believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.....AND they must NOT TAKE THE MARK OF THE A/C.
 
Ohhh Mr D,

I apologize for the mistake, my bad, I read lots of threads and respond to very few and in so doing I forget who started it, must be old age creeping in.

I'll keep my mouth shut, because you are doing an excellent work on your exposition of the book of James.

Blessings,

Gene
 
I do hope that all of you are reading Mr. Darby's imput here on James. It is concise and excellent!

Thanks Mr. D! You are blessing me.

ps........Just to confirm what you are presenting, when we read the Revelation and consider the Tribulation saints, we see that the gospel changes at that time to faith plus works, IMHO.

Rev. 14:9
"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, if any man worship the beast and his image AND RECEIVE HIS MARK IN HIS FORHEAD OR IN HIS HAND, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God".

Does that say to you that faith is combined with works during the Tribulation because one must believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.....AND they must NOT TAKE THE MARK OF THE A/C.

Yes, I agree, and that is what I am heading toward. In the Tribulation, faith is not enough. The attitude one takes toward the 'poor' at that time, and whether or not one takes the mark of the beast will determine whether one enters the Kingdom or not. Without understanding salvation in the Tribulation, men will be apt to misunderstand the book of James. I'm thrilled to find someone else who sees these truths. I have found that very few do. Actually, I have largely come to the conclusion that most everything from Hebrews to Revelation has strong doctrinal application to the Tribulation. When you look at these books closely, two things emerge: 1. They are Jewish oriented, 2. They are aimed at people living at the end of the age.
 
Ohhh Mr D,

I apologize for the mistake, my bad, I read lots of threads and respond to very few and in so doing I forget who started it, must be old age creeping in.

I'll keep my mouth shut, because you are doing an excellent work on your exposition of the book of James.

Blessings,

Gene
No need to apologize, brother! As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter who started it. :) I just hope the discussion on it will bless someone.
 
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Thanks for the encouragement, Major.

I guess there are times where I have to remind myself that if what I'm doing is not done in charity, then there's probably no point in doing it at all. But anyway, JustPassingThru did it with far more class anyway ;)

I liked yur avatar a lot better when you had that pretty lady next to you!!!
 
I think it is very simple. Salvation is by grace and grace alone. Works is the evidence of salvation by faith. Faith is dead if there is no works. Why?, Well, because a christian cannot say he/she has faith if it is not demostrable. Hope I have expressed myself well. Don´t have with me at the moment an english bible, only spanish as I am spanish living in Spain. Sorry brothers.
 
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