Parable of the Ten Virgins

I guess we all have our opinions on this but I just don't see what you are saying- it is ok to disagree-I would like to ask you this- who do you think the 24 elders around the throne are?
 
Boanerges said:
I guess we all have our opinions on this but I just don't see what you are saying- it is ok to disagree-I would like to ask you this- who do you think the 24 elders around the throne are?
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who was promised crowns.... 1 thes 2:19,2 tim 4:8, james 1:12, 1 peter 5:4, , 1 cor 9:25

the church ... who is left behind... all unbelievers

then God starts saving the elect of jacob's 70 week in the Great Tribulation
 
Truth be known I feel as though we are spiritual children of Abraham and are grafted into the vine of promise- I honestly believe that the old testament saints who have waited for Christs redeeming sacrifice are just as much a part of His inheritance as the new testament church- as far as the twentyfour elders throwing their crowns I have heard many views but the most common being the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles but I am not dogmatic about that- there are many instances of old testament saints being brought to heaven and even coming down and communing with Christ. There is no indication that they have any more restrictions in accessing God than us since the actual aplication of Jesus's blood - but these are my views- blessings- larry
 
Boanerges said:
Truth be known I feel as though we are spiritual children of Abraham and are grafted into the vine of promise- I honestly believe that the old testament saints who have waited for Christs redeeming sacrifice are just as much a part of His inheritance as the new testament church- as far as the twentyfour elders throwing their crowns I have heard many views but the most common being the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles but I am not dogmatic about that- there are many instances of old testament saints being brought to heaven and even coming down and communing with Christ. There is no indication that they have any more restrictions in accessing God than us since the actual aplication of Jesus's blood - but these are my views- blessings- larry
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yet to explain my verses

I too agree we are part of the promise to Abraham
but given different promises as God has ordained

OT saints are looking to the 45days after 2nd coming of Christ to get eternal life dan 12:2,11,13

NT saints are waiting for a twinkling of an eye at any moment we can be raptured 1 cor 15:52 since we already have eternal life 1 john 5:11-14
 
Perhaps I Am Not Seeing It Quite The Same But It Is Still An Interesting Thought- Thanks Brother!
 
Ok- the crowns- I tend to believe the traditonal view- 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles
Abraham, John, many of the prophets ( and how many others) saw and awaited Jesus the Lamb of God


The rapture- i tend to be a post trib man based on :

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
The book of 1 Corinthians declares "at the sound of the last trump we shall be changed" but I am not dogmatic abouht this either as I also subscribe to the pan millenial view- I will see how it all pans out- If God takes me sooner Hallelujah- if He leaves me here to do His work and will Hallelujah!Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
All of this great host of ( all of Hebrews chapter 11) saints were waiting for the fulfillment of God's promised provision which was accomplished in Jesus Chrsit our Lord.

Eph 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
These saints of old awaited thier redemption by looking forward to the cross much the same as we look back at the cross and know God's saving grace- one body, one Spirit, one family and one vine into which we are grafted-
:)
 
Boanerges said:
Ok- the crowns- I tend to believe the traditonal view- 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles
Abraham, John, many of the prophets ( and how many others) saw and awaited Jesus the Lamb of God
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there are OT apostle the 12 that followed Jesus

one who was the devil John 6:70 how could that be?

and NT apostles acts 14:14 barnabas, phil 2:25 epaphroditus, romans 16:7 Andronicus and Junia ... sure there was more?

how do you deal with the verse of the church offered crowns...?

The rapture- i tend to be a post trib man based on :

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
The book of 1 Corinthians declares "at the sound of the last trump we shall be changed" but I am not dogmatic abouht this either as I also subscribe to the pan millenial view- I will see how it all pans out- If God takes me sooner Hallelujah- if He leaves me here to do His work and will Hallelujah!
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Mystery .. defined eph 3:9-10, col 1:26,romans 16:25-26

The Jews new that they would be changed at the second coming.... the mystery was in an instant

why ... Daniel 12:2,11,13 states they had 45 day after the 2nd coming that they would be glorified

thus making the immeniecy of Christ return states in 1 cor 15:51-52 something different

Last trump... in Rev it is always Angels blowing the trumpet so that wrath would begin

1 thes 4:16-17 one trumpet for the dead to arise on earth 2nd trumpet and last for the church to meet are Lord in the air.... in space
Heb 11:39
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And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
All of this great host of ( all of Hebrews chapter 11) saints were waiting for the fulfillment of God's promised provision which was accomplished in Jesus Chrsit our Lord.

Eph 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
These saints of old awaited thier redemption by looking forward to the cross much the same as we look back at the cross and know God's saving grace- one body, one Spirit, one family and one vine into which we are grafted-
:)
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yes but during the law Jews and Gentile where on a different playing field... eph 2:11-12

but now very different ...equal and their is neither Jew or gentile gal 3:28 since we are promise heavenly citizenship .. phil 3:20

I want peace but I want you to grow in love 1 john 4:17-18 God hast cast out judgement for the church so that we can mature unlike OT saints heb 7:19
 
Even thought the apostles picked their own replacemnet for Judas God had other ideas- his name was Paul

I believe we will all have crowns to cast at His feet

There are 7 trumphets and this refers specifically to the last

1 thes 4:16-17 mentions only 1 trump


Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

we are no longer aliens


Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
We are all Abrahams seed- no difference there


Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

As Gal 3:28 -29 has already stated we are the same in Christ and therefore heir to the same promises:D


1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The church of Jesus Christ is first to be judged
 
ABIC could you post your scriptures - I always look them up but it is not that easy for everyone- If you don't have good bible software you can get it at :
http://www.e-sword.net/downloads.html
- I currently have a gig and a half of freeware and can cross compare almost 60 translations at the click of a mouse. E-Sword is mostly freeware but there are some programs you can purchase- still I have amassed a bigger library than most Pastors just off the freeware. ( Yes I do try to send a contribution to brother Rick every year as I use his software daily)- Just a thought- it would certainly make it easier for others here to follow your points- your brother Larry
 
Boanerges said:
Even thought the apostles picked their own replacemnet for Judas God had other ideas- his name was Paul
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John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you...

Jesus speaking to the apostle the night before his death

Paul was a NT aspostle he was chosen by Jesus Acts 9...

Acts 9:26 other apostles afraid of Paul
I believe we will all have crowns to cast at His feet

There are 7 trumphets and this refers specifically to the last

1 thes 4:16-17 one one trump
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1 thes 4:16-17 trumpet to arise from the dead and a trumpet to change bodies
notice that God calls his sheep.... john 10:27 ... they come
Rev the angels blow the trumpet of destruction

1 cor 15:52 states last trump and resurrection will happen
but we know in the second coming there is no resurrection till 75 days after the 2nd coming
Dan 12:2,11,13

1 cor 15:51 what is the mystery?
they knew that they would be resurrected ...

eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is this dispensation mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.
eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God.

col 1:26 Even the mystery[dispensation of grace] which hath been hid from the ages and from the generations, but now is made clear to His saints

romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stand firm you according to my good news, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which was kept secret since the world began
romans 16: 26 But now is made clear, and by the scriptures of the NT prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting decree of God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.



Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

we are no longer aliens
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in our relationship with God

but even the Jews are promised that Gentiles will serve then even though they are saved

but We are neither Jew or Gentile ... why this is an earth description .... we are a heavenly people ....

phil 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
We are all Abrahams seed- no difference there
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we are connected only to the 4th covenant to Abraham ... Gen 22:17, luke 1:68-72 for the seed is singular... which points to Christ by Gal 3:15-16

the other covenants are to Jews only... why the difference rev 2:9, 3:9
Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

As Gal 3:28 -29 has already stated we are the same in Christ and therefore heir to the same promises:D
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promises? or one promise of gen 22:17
cannot add or substact to a covenant

Heb 11:39 And these having obtained a good report through faith, recieved not the [greatest] promise. look at chapter 11 of hebrews to see all there acts of faith yet God gives us the best ..... why?

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made mature.

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding greatest and best promises: that by these ye might be paratakers of the divine nature having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The church of Jesus Christ is first to be judged
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agreed ... penacost to the rapture is judged first.... Bema seat Judgement
then the Sheep and Goat Judgement .. after Great Trib
then the Great white Throne Judgement
 
Boanerges said:
Ok- the crowns- I tend to believe :)
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hello I just Got done with wed night bible study on the crowns >


I want to share...

rev 4:4 Around the throne were twenty four thrones, and on the throne I saw twenty four elders[rev 3:21 promised to the church] sitting [heb 4:9-10], clothed in white robes[promised in rev 3:5], and they had crowns of gold on their heads[promised in 1 tim 2:19, 2 tim 4:8, james 1:12, 1peter 5:4, 1 cor 9:25]

rev 5:2 ...who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?"

before the Great Trib​

rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain And redeemed us to God by your blood [heb 10:19] Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

rev 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God.[1 peter 2:9, 2 tim 2:10-12, rev 1:6] And we shall reign over the earth. [1 cor 6:2-3, rev 2:26-27,eph 1:6-10]

wow ... the grace of God continues ​
 
Hi ABIC, basicaly I guess the area we disagree on boils down to this-

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

The Jewish folks are not excluded from either scripture as the entire eleventh chapter of Hebrews is a discourse on how our jewish brethren were saved by faith- they believed God's promise for salvation just like you and I

A few more things I would like to say:
1. I love you , your heart and your zeal- keep that fire burning
2. I am not in agreement with your eschatology but that is ok
3. I feel my calling here is not to debate doctrine but to edify and encourage my brothers and sisters in Christ
4. I hope you understand and receive this in the spirit in which I am stating it.
Always your brother Larry
 
Heb 11:39 And these having obtained a good report through faith, recieved not the [greatest] promise. look at chapter 11 of hebrews to see all there acts of faith yet God gives us the best ..... why?

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made mature.

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding greatest and best promises: that by these ye might be paratakers of the divine nature having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 
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