Plants and Alcohol

[Ravindran]

Paul writes this in 1 Corinthians 12 “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything.

The context of the verse is about sexual immorality. And how our body belongs to the Lord. But I think it is applicable in this case as well. Drinking is an abuse of our body. Alcohol nothing other than abuse our body. However, it does have benefits when taken in very limited amounts. Being drunken (excessive drinking) is clearly admonished in Bible. I think those verses are quoted already. The question is on limited usage of alcohol for its benefits. If it would provide benefits and not it would not dominate us (or abuse), then I see no issues. Does not mean casual drinking is fine. I am against it. Because it does not provide any benefit. Does no good to body. And while it may not immediately cause damage to our body, when casual drinking becomes a habit and regular it would eventually cause damage

 

[Major]

Just wanted to add a touch of levity to the thread from my weather analysis background:

Q: Where did the TV meteorologist stop for a drink on the way home from a long day in the studio?
A: At the nearest ISOBAR.

Yeah - I know ... I'll stop, now.

Way out there Gary...…..! What ever you do, don't give up your day job my brother.

 

[Lanolin]

Paul writes this in 1 Corinthians 12 “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything.

The context of the verse is about sexual immorality. And how our body belongs to the Lord. But I think it is applicable in this case as well. Drinking is an abuse of our body. Alcohol nothing other than abuse our body. However, it does have benefits when taken in very limited amounts. Being drunken (excessive drinking) is clearly admonished in Bible. I think those verses are quoted already. The question is on limited usage of alcohol for its benefits. If it would provide benefits and not it would not dominate us (or abuse), then I see no issues. Does not mean casual drinking is fine. I am against it. Because it does not provide any benefit. Does no good to body. And while it may not immediately cause damage to our body, when casual drinking becomes a habit and regular it would eventually cause damage

What exactly are the benefits again? I think people often drink to forget things, but I have noticed that people actually remember an awful lot when they are drunk.
They say people drink to give them courage, but its kind of false bravado. People think they can do things when drunk that they actually cant do in reality.
Anyone who can only drink to have a good time, obviously has never known how to have a really had a good time without alcohol.

I had a workmate who said his flatmate would get drunk and pass out, and then neglect her two year old son. One time she got drunk and smashed up her exes tv. Her friends got so worried they tried to stage an intervention whereby her son would get taken off her by CYFS. Because she couldnt look after her own son when she was drunk and passed out obviously. I dont know how this workmate could live with his drunk flatmate, maybe because of the cheap rent...but I thought she was kinda using him to justify her drinking habit. She was fine when she was sober, but just horrible and nasty when drunk.

Apparently she got that way because her mum died and she was trying to cope by drinking.

 

[Ravindran]

What exactly are the benefits again? I think people often drink to forget things, but I have noticed that people actually remember an awful lot when they are drunk.
They say people drink to give them courage, but its kind of false bravado. People think they can do things when drunk that they actually cant do in reality.
Anyone who can only drink to have a good time, obviously has never known how to have a really had a good time without alcohol.

I had a workmate who said his flatmate would get drunk and pass out, and then neglect her two year old son. One time she got drunk and smashed up her exes tv. Her friends got so worried they tried to stage an intervention whereby her son would get taken off her by CYFS. Because she couldnt look after her own son when she was drunk and passed out obviously. I dont know how this workmate could live with his drunk flatmate, maybe because of the cheap rent...but I thought she was kinda using him to justify her drinking habit. She was fine when she was sober, but just horrible and nasty when drunk.

Apparently she got that way because her mum died and she was trying to cope by drinking.

I think I clarified this in my post already. I am not talking about being drunken. I am talking about taking in limited quantities (or diulated) for health or medicinal benefits. I am NOT talking about drinking for forgetting sadness, recreation and so on.

 

[Lanolin]

I think I clarified this in my post already. I am not talking about being drunken. I am talking about taking in limited quantities (or diulated) for health or medicinal benefits. I am NOT talking about drinking for forgetting sadness, recreation and so on.

Well it does kill stuff, so it can be used as extenally as an anti microbial or anti-bacterial. It can act as a presevative. I wouldnt take it internally though. There are better things you can use for medicine with fewer or no side effects.

 

[Major]

Well it does kill stuff, so it can be used as extenally as an anti microbial or anti-bacterial. It can act as a presevative. I wouldnt take it internally though. There are better things you can use for medicine with fewer or no side effects.

In 1st Tim. 5:23 Paul tells Timothy to............….
"Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses."

 

[Lanolin]

In 1st Tim. 5:23 Paul tells Timothy to............….
"Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses."

I wonder why he said that because wine isnt known to help your stomach. Does it act as a tonic or something. But then wine doesnt always mean an alcoholic drink. He also wrote just to use a little, not drink heaps.

Tea is often drunk as a cure-all and is very healthy for you, especially green tea. It has relaxing and calming properties. But is not a sedative, unlike alcohol, which can make someone drowsy.

 

[AtomicSnowflake]

@Pastor Mayende

neighbour used alcohol as first aid instead of spirit

is it bad to use alcohol as spirit?

If I understand what you mean, then you are saying that he used the alcohol to clean her cut. And when you say "instead of spirit", I am thinking you mean the Holy Spirit.

If that is what you mean, then I see nothing wrong with using the alcohol for first aid. There is a difference between using it for good, or abusing it for evil.

I hope she recovered and healed from the injury quickly.

-------

I wonder why he said that because wine isnt known to help your stomach. Does it act as a tonic or something. But then wine doesnt always mean an alcoholic drink. He also wrote just to use a little, not drink heaps.

If I am not mistaken, it is claimed to benefit in digestion.....
Wine can also mean vinegar...

 

[Lanolin]

@Pastor Mayende




If I understand what you mean, then you are saying that he used the alcohol to clean her cut. And when you say "instead of spirit", I am thinking you mean the Holy Spirit.

If that is what you mean, then I see nothing wrong with using the alcohol for first aid. There is a difference between using it for good, or abusing it for evil.

I hope she recovered and healed from the injury quickly.

-------




If I am not mistaken, it is claimed to benefit in digestion.....
Wine can also mean vinegar...

Yea thats what I thought because vinegar can be used as a gargle for sore throats. I've not heard of wine being used for sore stomachs though thats kinda weird. You would use peppermint oil for that or maybe soda.
I would think the good properties of wine is not any alcohol content but the component found in the grapes skins themselves. I think its called reservatrol.
Grapeseed oil is used as a blending oil.

 

[aha]

The bible says no to drunkenness,

Romans 14:15-18 the bible allowed us to eat and drink everything, Yes but it has said no to alcohol. ( 1 peter 4:3, Gal. 5:16-21, Eph. 5:18)

Sorry Pastor, but your second post got me confused.

I AGREE on the first post: drunkenness is the one being "measured".
But on the second post: the one being "measured" is "alcohol?

I think that has to be established to make a correct judgement: what is being measured or judge? Is it wine or drunkenness or alcohol?

Those scriptures yourself quoted is very clear as i see it: it is excess, drunkenness, drunk that is being measured. not wine, not alcohol.

Posting those verses mentioned:

1PET 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

GAL 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

EPH 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

 

[aha]

just an additional thought:

In this high technology now: Policemen can stop a car driver and be measured for drunkenness by measuring the alcohol in one’s blood or urine or breath.

I hope that is not confusing.

The alcohol is being measured not because it having alcohol in one's blood is the violation being watched our for: it is used to measure how one or detect if one is drunk.

ie: we judge the substance (it is drunk driving we want to avoid, to avoid accidents) and not the form (one's urine or blood have alcohol content in it)

 

[Lanolin]

just an additional thought:

In this high technology now: Policemen can stop a car driver and be measured for drunkenness by measuring the alcohol in one’s blood or urine or breath.

I hope that is not confusing.

The alcohol is being measured not because it having alcohol in one's blood is the violation being watched our for: it is used to measure how one or detect if one is drunk.

ie: we judge the substance (it is drunk driving we want to avoid, to avoid accidents) and not the form (one's urine or blood have alcohol content in it)

Its actually confusing...dont you understand the correlation between the amount of alcohol consumed to the effect on peoples behaviour. This is why we have laws and guidlines about alcohol consumption, limits on the number of drinks people can have, and why alcohol is labelled in all the bottles its put in by volume percentage.

The more alcohol a person consumes, the more intoxicated they becom, and the more dysfunctional they get. When cops measure alcohol on your breath when they stop you for drivng, they are right to do this, rahter than get you out of the car and make you walk in a straight line. Why because they are looking for the cause of that behaviour.

 

[aha]

Its actually confusing...

When cops measure alcohol on your breath when they stop you for drivng, they are right to do this, rahter than get you out of the car and make you walk in a straight line. Why because they are looking for the cause of that behaviour.

Yes, it can be confusing: what is really being measured.

You mentioned : "rather than get you out of the car?
Am not sure what you meant by "rather than"

One may passed the law (the letter/form of the law) on alcohol limit but may still be found drunk (the intent/substance of the law) when asked to walk.

Thus, it will be a good safety measure that aside from measuring one alcohol in the body, one has still to walk a straight line.

There can be who passed the law on alcohol limit in one’s body, but may have low tolerance on alcohol that they can be still be found drunk when asked to walk.

That is: the substance or intention of the law is detect drunkenness and stop drunk drivers from causing harm to themselves and to others.

if my explanation still confusing, apology as i am not sure if can make it more clear...

 

[Major]

I wonder why he said that because wine isnt known to help your stomach. Does it act as a tonic or something. But then wine doesnt always mean an alcoholic drink. He also wrote just to use a little, not drink heaps.

Tea is often drunk as a cure-all and is very healthy for you, especially green tea. It has relaxing and calming properties. But is not a sedative, unlike alcohol, which can make someone drowsy.

Most Bible scholars say that the reason was because there was not a lot of good water to drink in that area in that day.
While we don't really know, some people think that what was called "wine" in the Bible was actually unfermented grape juice...

 

[rtm3039]

Yes, it can be confusing: what is really being measured.

You mentioned : "rather than get you out of the car?
Am not sure what you meant by "rather than"

One may passed the law (the letter/form of the law) on alcohol limit but may still be found drunk (the intent/substance of the law) when asked to walk.

Thus, it will be a good safety measure that aside from measuring one alcohol in the body, one has still to walk a straight line.

There can be who passed the law on alcohol limit in one’s body, but may have low tolerance on alcohol that they can be still be found drunk when asked to walk.

That is: the substance or intention of the law is detect drunkenness and stop drunk drivers from causing harm to themselves and to others.

if my explanation still confusing, apology as i am not sure if can make it more clear...

What causes a person to become intoxicated is the ethanol in the beverage. It works as a depressant to the central nervous system and causes your brain to respond slower to stimuli. How fast this happens depends on a variety of other factors, to include alcohol content and the size of the person consuming it.

The law has established the level of alcohol in your blood. In the US, the level is .08; meaning that if your blood/alcohol ratio is above .08, you are legally considered incapable of operating a vehicle. If you get to around 0.35%, you will probably not survive and die of alcohol poisoning.

Police officers usually look for erratic driving (too slow, weaving in and out of your lane, etc). When you make contact with the person, you are looking for the odor of alcohol, slurred speech, etc. Having someone do a sobriety field test is just to establish probable cause to support a BAT (breath). In the event that the person refuses the BAT, you can legally extract blood to determine the blood/alcohol level. In the US, we waive this 4th Amendment protection for the privilege of being issued a driver’s license.

As for the health benefits, the issue is not just red wine, but ethanol itself. Studies have shown that a moderate consumption of “alcohol” does (1) raise HDLs (good cholesterol), (2) reduce formation of blood clots, (3) lower LDL (bad cholesterol), and (4) improve the lining of blood vessels.

(see: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/red-wine/art-20048281

I have found no biblical passage that considers the drinking of alcohol (i.e. wine) a sin. However, the abuse of it (drunkenness leading to debauchery). As already highlighted by aha, 1 Peter 4:3, Galatians. 5:16-21, and Ephesians. 5:18 do not actually “say no” to alcohol, but to its abuse. Personally, I believe the latter says it best: “Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.”

rtm3039

 

[rtm3039]

Most Bible scholars say that the reason was because there was not a lot of good water to drink in that area in that day.
While we don't really know, some people think that what was called "wine" in the Bible was actually unfermented grape juice...

Good morning Brother Major,

I recall you have made this comment before. Last time, I did some reading and came across an interesting article that indicated that, back in those days, the heat alone caused grapes to ferment naturally and that the reason the Romans started t mix the grape with water was to lessen it's alcohol content resulting from the fermentation.

I think I posted the article before, but can't recall.

Hope you have a blessed and otherwise fantastic 4th...

rtm3039

 

[Lanolin]

What causes a person to become intoxicated is the ethanol in the beverage. It works as a depressant to the central nervous system and causes your brain to respond slower to stimuli. How fast this happens depends on a variety of other factors, to include alcohol content and the size of the person consuming it.

The law has established the level of alcohol in your blood. In the US, the level is .08; meaning that if your blood/alcohol ratio is above .08, you are legally considered incapable of operating a vehicle. If you get to around 0.35%, you will probably not survive and die of alcohol poisoning.

Police officers usually look for erratic driving (too slow, weaving in and out of your lane, etc). When you make contact with the person, you are looking for the odor of alcohol, slurred speech, etc. Having someone do a sobriety field test is just to establish probable cause to support a BAT (breath). In the event that the person refuses the BAT, you can legally extract blood to determine the blood/alcohol level. In the US, we waive this 4th Amendment protection for the privilege of being issued a driver’s license.

As for the health benefits, the issue is not just red wine, but ethanol itself. Studies have shown that a moderate consumption of “alcohol” does (1) raise HDLs (good cholesterol), (2) reduce formation of blood clots, (3) lower LDL (bad cholesterol), and (4) improve the lining of blood vessels.

(see: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/red-wine/art-20048281

I have found no biblical passage that considers the drinking of alcohol (i.e. wine) a sin. However, the abuse of it (drunkenness leading to debauchery). As already highlighted by aha, 1 Peter 4:3, Galatians. 5:16-21, and Ephesians. 5:18 do not actually “say no” to alcohol, but to its abuse. Personally, I believe the latter says it best: “Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.”

rtm3039

Welll what part of DO NOT GET DRUNK, do people not understand...?

 

[Lanolin]

If Noah had not got drunk, the world might be different. Ham wouldnt have seen him naked, and Canaan wouldnt have been cursed.
Also, if Lot had not got drunk or plied with drink, he wouldnt have slept with his daughters.

When the Bible says these men got drunk, I would think they got so drunk they passed out and were incapable of being aware of what was happening.

The Bible also says be sober, and vigilant, for the devil roams about like a lion, seeking whom he might devour.

When people arent sober, the devil can easily influence them. You try reasoning with a drunk person. Cant be done.

 

[rtm3039]

Welll what part of DO NOT GET DRUNK, do people not understand...?

Lanolin,

In some cases (probably more than not), they cannot help it. This is why alcoholism is considered a decease. People with addictive personalities will fall victim to one form of vice or another. My friend that I occasionally speak of was addicted to alcohol, cigarettes, pornography, and gambling. When he was in business, he was addicted to money. His life was truly "hell on earth" and is cost him everything.

rtm3039

 

[Lanolin]

Lanolin,

In some cases (probably more than not), they cannot help it. This is why alcoholism is considered a decease. People with addictive personalities will fall victim to one form of vice or another. My friend that I occasionally speak of was addicted to alcohol, cigarettes, pornography, and gambling. When he was in business, he was addicted to money. His life was truly "hell on earth" and is cost him everything.

rtm3039

Hmm thats a lie because people can actually stop if they want to.
I was reading this memoirs of one of the daughters of the mamas and the papas you know the 60s band. She was addicted to cocaine and other drugs right. She got sober and lived about ten years clean. Then one day she didnt say no and got addicted again. She went to rehab another time and got clean enough to write that memoir.

One of the turning points was because she had to be an example for her son, another was she got arrested and threatened with a life in jail if she did not get clean.

Rehab is for those who are addicted and what happens in them is that the people have NO ACCESS to drugs or alcohol of any kind, they cant go out shopping, and they get taught how to live a normal life. In my city there was an island where drunks would go to get sober, if they wanted a drink, they would have to swim across the harbour to get one. It was run by the Salvation aRmy. Many people came to Christ through their mission, and many still do today.