Plants and Alcohol

Dec 19, 2014
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The thing is people with addictive personalities, if thats a thing, have a hole in Their heart they try to fill with things, but it can only be healed by God. I have known many pople addicted or enslaved by drugs, alcohol, etc who got free cos Jesus set them free. And they are not addicted anymore.
 

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Hmm thats a lie because people can actually stop if they want to.
I was reading this memoirs of one of the daughters of the mamas and the papas you know the 60s band. She was addicted to cocaine and other drugs right. She got sober and lived about ten years clean. Then one day she didnt say no and got addicted again. She went to rehab another time and got clean enough to write that memoir.

One of the turning points was because she had to be an example for her son, another was she got arrested and threatened with a life in jail if she did not get clean.

Rehab is for those who are addicted and what happens in them is that the people have NO ACCESS to drugs or alcohol of any kind, they cant go out shopping, and they get taught how to live a normal life. In my city there was an island where drunks would go to get sober, if they wanted a drink, they would have to swim across the harbour to get one. It was run by the Salvation aRmy. Many people came to Christ through their mission, and many still do today.
Actually Lanolin, it is not a lie, but a medical fact. This is why rehabbed alcoholics and drug addicts call themselves "recovering" alcoholics and drug addicts. It is always there and waiting for an opportunity.

"Addiction is a chronic brain disorder, and not merely a behavioral problem or simply the result of taking the wrong choices, according to the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM), which has given addiction a new and long definition. ASAM says that addiction is much, much more than a behavioral problem involving excessive drugs, sex, gambling or alcohol."

 
Dec 19, 2014
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That island, I talked about has still got an alcohol ban today. Its now a wildlife sanctuary. Have been to stay there and seen some rare birds.

The salvation army moved their rehab to the mainland. Its still going, the guy I was going out with went there and got rehabbed. This is not to say people arent ever going to be tempted, but if you put your faith to work you CAn resisit temptation.

Am not going to buy that people 'just cant help it'. We have a helper with the holy spirit who is sent to help us in these situations, everyday!
 
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Actually Lanolin, it is not a lie, but a medical fact. This is why rehabbed alcoholics and drug addicts call themselves "recovering" alcoholics and drug addicts. It is always there and waiting for an opportunity.

"Addiction is a chronic brain disorder, and not merely a behavioral problem or simply the result of taking the wrong choices, according to the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM), which has given addiction a new and long definition. ASAM says that addiction is much, much more than a behavioral problem involving excessive drugs, sex, gambling or alcohol."

Medicine has been shown to be wrong because your brain can actually be rewired. When you get sober, you can make new neural pathways with healing. It take time and inner healing, but its a spiritual issue, and there is nothing God cannot do with people if they truly repent.
 

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That island, I talked about has still got an alcohol ban today. Its now a wildlife sanctuary. Have been to stay there and seen some rare birds.

The salvation army moved their rehab to the mainland. Its still going, the guy I was going out with went there and got rehabbed. This is not to say people arent ever going to be tempted, but if you put your faith to work you CAn resisit temptation.

Am not going to buy that people 'just cant help it'. We have a helper with the holy spirit who is sent to help us in these situations, everyday!
Lanolin, it's ok to have your opinion. Just do so understanding that it is not consistent with the opinion of medical authorities. Yes, the influence of the Holy Spirit can keep you on track, but you first need to seek the Lord out and some people just do not have the mental faculty of doing so.

rtm3039
 
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Doctors were wrong about me, I got healed of a severe mental brain disorder no man can cure. Theough Jesus and today I dont need to take medication the doctors were wanting to prescribe me for the rest of my life until I died.
 
Jan 25, 2019
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Sorry Pastor, but your second post got me confused.

I AGREE on the first post: drunkenness is the one being "measured".
But on the second post: the one being "measured" is "alcohol?

I think that has to be established to make a correct judgement: what is being measured or judge? Is it wine or drunkenness or alcohol?

Those scriptures yourself quoted is very clear as i see it: it is excess, drunkenness, drunk that is being measured. not wine, not alcohol.

Posting those verses mentioned:

1PET 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

GAL 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

EPH 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
What is your stand on alcohol, can we BORN AGAIN enjoy alcohol?
Which Bible is this? which say that not excess.
 
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In 1st Tim. 5:23 Paul tells Timothy to............….
"Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses."
Thank you Major,
Let us share something,
Why did Paul wrote this letter to Timothy? we want to know this first and it will help us.
After that, are you Timothy? did you have stomach and frequent illness?
God Bless You.
 
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Does anyone know about the famous singer songwriter Amy Winehouse. She died aged 27 of alcohol poisoning. Anyway at a christian conference I went to one of the speakers said God had told him to go speak to Ms Winehouse, but for some reason or other he was unable to reach her.

It must have been many people were praying for her and she really needed her saviour. The speaker said he feels awful that he couldnt get to her he was a minister and I think he knew her through others. Anyway the point is God does care about the people we pray about who could be on the wrong road and if He asks you to speak to somebody you obey.

I dont know if anyone else reached her before she died. But all is not lost cos after her death her parents, who had previously split up, got together and created a charity in her name for vulnerable young creatives like her that helps support those and lead them away from a life of drugs and alcohol, which is rife in the music industry. It is incredibly easy and tempting to access drugs and alcohol when you have lots of money and too much fame.

One of the factors in her drinking addiction and one which I noticed a lot amongst alcoholics is that her parents had divorced or were estranged at a time when she was young and needed them both together. In fact in almost all cases ive known of alcoholism that happened, relationship breakdown, or death of a parent or grandparent who was close to them.suddenly they are gone and you feel abandoned, what is there to numb the pain? . Alcohol.
 

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Does anyone know about the famous singer songwriter Amy Winehouse. She died aged 27 of alcohol poisoning. Anyway at a christian conference I went to one of the speakers said God had told him to go speak to Ms Winehouse, but for some reason or other he was unable to reach her.

It must have been many people were praying for her and she really needed her saviour. The speaker said he feels awful that he couldnt get to her he was a minister and I think he knew her through others. Anyway the point is God does care about the people we pray about who could be on the wrong road and if He asks you to speak to somebody you obey.

I dont know if anyone else reached her before she died. But all is not lost cos after her death her parents, who had previously split up, got together and created a charity in her name for vulnerable young creatives like her that helps support those and lead them away from a life of drugs and alcohol, which is rife in the music industry. It is incredibly easy and tempting to access drugs and alcohol when you have lots of money and too much fame.

One of the factors in her drinking addiction and one which I noticed a lot amongst alcoholics is that her parents had divorced or were estranged at a time when she was young and needed them both together. In fact in almost all cases ive known of alcoholism that happened, relationship breakdown, or death of a parent or grandparent who was close to them.suddenly they are gone and you feel abandoned, what is there to numb the pain? . Alcohol.
“He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for people to cultivate—bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladdens human hearts, oil to make their faces shine, and bread that sustains their hearts.” (Psalm 104: 14 – 15, NIV)

I think our problem here is that we are mixing two ideas. One is wine itself and the other is the abuse of wine. Many things are good in moderation, but bad in its abuse. Work is good, unless it is done one the sabbath or allowed to consume us. Loving your wife is good, but not loving the wife of your neighbor.

The examples you have provide are a strong testament to the dangers of alcohol abuse, not of alcohol itself. God can do wonders; however, let’s not forget the whole idea of free will (assuming you are unwilling to except alcoholism as a disease and addictive personality disorder as a real condition).

You never know. Maybe, if he had been able to talk to Ms. Winehouse, it might have changed things, or maybe not; wasn’t she Jewish? My understanding is that she was once hospitalized for an overdose of heroin, ecstasy, cocaine, ketamine and alcohol, so her problem went way beyond alcohol.

But what is to be said for those that consume moderate amounts of alcohol that never result in debauchery?

rtm3039
 
Dec 19, 2014
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“He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for people to cultivate—bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladdens human hearts, oil to make their faces shine, and bread that sustains their hearts.” (Psalm 104: 14 – 15, NIV)

I think our problem here is that we are mixing two ideas. One is wine itself and the other is the abuse of wine. Many things are good in moderation, but bad in its abuse. Work is good, unless it is done one the sabbath or allowed to consume us. Loving your wife is good, but not loving the wife of your neighbor.

The examples you have provide are a strong testament to the dangers of alcohol abuse, not of alcohol itself. God can do wonders; however, let’s not forget the whole idea of free will (assuming you are unwilling to except alcoholism as a disease and addictive personality disorder as a real condition).

You never know. Maybe, if he had been able to talk to Ms. Winehouse, it might have changed things, or maybe not; wasn’t she Jewish? My understanding is that she was once hospitalized for an overdose of heroin, ecstasy, cocaine, ketamine and alcohol, so her problem went way beyond alcohol.

But what is to be said for those that consume moderate amounts of alcohol that never result in debauchery?

rtm3039
My point was she was drinking to numb the pain. All those other drugs, getting high etc, if you come down to it, people in pain wont need to use substances to get high if they are able to work through that pain, jesus even refused alcohol on the cross.
The thread is about using alcohol as medicine.

What exactly is a moderate amount anyway. I would think that those who drink moderate amounts are probably wasting their money. There are better beverages to drink that are beneficial and no risk of being intoxicated. Like tea.
 
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Also there are two types of wine, new wine, that hasnt got rotten and femented, that Jesus had...and old wine, that had got rotten and fermented.
Its very easy to discern one from the other, the first one doesnt make you sick.
 

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My point was she was drinking to numb the pain. All those other drugs, getting high etc, if you come down to it, people in pain wont need to use substances to get high if they are able to work through that pain, jesus even refused alcohol on the cross.
The thread is about using alcohol as medicine.

What exactly is a moderate amount anyway. I would think that those who drink moderate amounts are probably wasting their money. There are better beverages to drink that are beneficial and no risk of being intoxicated. Like tea.
I drink a glass of wine with dinner, sometimes two. I consider that moderate. Something about eating pasta and a nice glass of tea just doesn't work for me. The wine enhances the taste of the food; well, at least for me.

Yes, Jesus refused the vinegar wine on the cross, but had wine during his last supper.

rtm3039
 
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Being Jewish doesnt preclude anyone from knowing Jesus. After all Jesus was Jewish!

Yes Amy had a strong will or free will to choose what she wanted. But the thing is maybe she wasnt presented with a real choice or option. Many people on the wide road dont actually know how to find the narrow way that leads to life. They are lost.

Have you ever been lost? Not a nice feeling or situation to be in. You go round in circles and try to find your way but you have no guidance or way of knowing where you are.
 
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Wine is just basically grape juice.
I once worked at a bottling plant. I was gardening there, and masses of wine were trucked from all over the country to be bottled at this place. I could smell the wine as I was gardening and hear the clink of bottles going down the line but we never got to drink any. I asked them if we could taste or have any grapes, but you know what, the grapevine they had at the entrance was purely ornamental and didnt even bear fruit.

Maybe years ago they had a vineyard there but as land got more expensive they moved the grapevines elsewhere.

I used to buy grape juice that was 100 percent grapes not from concentrate from the supermarket, it was delicious but was so disappointed when the supermarket stopped selling it. We would also get grape juice from a vineyard up north in cases but even they said they had to stop bottling it for some reason it became uneconomic.

I think its because of export markets make it cheaper to sell old, bad wine to other countries than have fresh wine locally.
 

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Being Jewish doesnt preclude anyone from knowing Jesus. After all Jesus was Jewish!

Yes Amy had a strong will or free will to choose what she wanted. But the thing is maybe she wasnt presented with a real choice or option. Many people on the wide road dont actually know how to find the narrow way that leads to life. They are lost.

Have you ever been lost? Not a nice feeling or situation to be in. You go round in circles and try to find your way but you have no guidance or way of knowing where you are.
Yes Lanolin, I was lost for over 40 years.

rtm3039
 

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Wine is just basically grape juice.
I once worked at a bottling plant. I was gardening there, and masses of wine were trucked from all over the country to be bottled at this place. I could smell the wine as I was gardening and hear the clink of bottles going down the line but we never got to drink any. I asked them if we could taste or have any grapes, but you know what, the grapevine they had at the entrance was purely ornamental and didnt even bear fruit.

Maybe years ago they had a vineyard there but as land got more expensive they moved the grapevines elsewhere.

I used to buy grape juice that was 100 percent grapes not from concentrate from the supermarket, it was delicious but was so disappointed when the supermarket stopped selling it. We would also get grape juice from a vineyard up north in cases but even they said they had to stop bottling it for some reason it became uneconomic.

I think its because of export markets make it cheaper to sell old, bad wine to other countries than have fresh wine locally.
I had a friend, who has since passed. He purchased a 23 acre plot of land in Virginia. On three acres, he built his house. On eight acres, he had a vineyard. They do not make wine, but sell the grapes to those that do. The revenue they make from selling grapes pays the mortgage and household expenses.


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