Poison - 'end of life choice'

#1
This topic has come up in church esp in nz because there is a proposed bill being put forward in parliament called the 'end of life choice' bill which is basically wanting to legalise euthanasia or 'assisted suicide' by making available lethal drugs to administer to anyone who wants to die.

Please your thoughts and prayers on this.
If this gets made legal in nz everything will change, for me it means peoole could be coerced into ending their lige if doctors decide your life is. It worth living and you dont even have to be dying or terminally ill to want this. It js not he same as sayjng you dont eant to be resuscitated if on life support machine, basically its getting someone else to poison you if you dont want to live anymore.
 
#2
I remember actually two men I used to work with that ended their life by suicide, one gassed himself in a car, the other I think was by hanging. Last year I went to a funeral of a suicide, the boy was only 24 years old. It was a hanging.

Poison is just as bad I reckon even if you get someone else to do it. The case came about because one lady called Lucretia .... (sorry dont know her last name) who was diagnosed from a brain tumor just wanted to end her life and she was trying to convince someone else to poison her. But the doctors said no they wanted to care for her you cant do that i. NZ and she kicked up a fuss. As she was well off she could get her lawyer friends to try and make it legal in nz so everyone could have a 'choice' to end their life. She died a natural peaceful death anyway but obviously when she was facing a brian tumor probably thought it was the only way out and she wanted to die sooner rather than later.

So anyway this bill, which had been thrown out before, got put through to parliament after her death.

This is a bit of background to the topic and why I am bringing it up. The politics of it is messy but what does God say?
 
#3
Lord its very hard to type on this ipad without making mistakes...!

Brain tumour not brian...!
Coerced into ending their life.

I was thinking that when given the option, Jesus when he was suffering on the cross, chose to rely on God rather than drugs to poison him and take the suffering away. If Jesus had taken the drugs, or alcohol or whatever it was, it would have not been Gods will. Hebrews says its appointed once for man to die, but who is it that makes that appointment, God or man?

Can christians schedule their own deaths? You may know when your number is up but only the Father knows the day or hour. How is it trusting God to ask someone else to kill you?
 

Pastor Gary

Senior Moderator and Staff Trainer
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Staff Trainer
#4
#5
In this country, it was Dr. Kevorkian. He was a pathologist and proponent of a patients 'right' to die via assisted suicide. Dr K passed a few years ago, but from time to time, the issue returns.

End of life issues, particularly if complicated by terminal disease is always challenging, both to the patient, and do those around him. I am active in an ostomy support group. Many, like myself, have had their surgeries due to cancer or other life-threatening conditions. A wonderful member of our group is currently battling the return of his cancer. Too often, I attend the funeral of someone that has had their cancer return (or it was never successfully eliminated). I am consistently amazed at the outlook many of these people have. From what I have seen, those whose outlook is 'how can I make the time I have to count the most for the people around me' fair much better as they are challenged than those who are consumed by the very real experiences they have.

I have thought many times about how I would react to my cancer returning (no sign of it yet, praise the Lord). I do know the potential for uncomfortable death, and I would much prefer that I pass quickly and peacefully, but I would not artificially cut my time short. I may not choose to undergo chemo again nor surgery, but it is not for fear of those nor an attempt to avoid an uncomfortable end, but a decision that if the Lord is calling me, I do not choose to get into a tug-of-war with God. For me, more is not necessarily better. I am content with what God has allotted me (but if He allows me another 65 years, I will still rejoice).

Others choose to fight to keep the precious gift of life as long as the Lord enables. I am in awe of their courage.
 
#6
Lanolin - would one of the soft tip stylus pens work better for you while typing? I use one with my ASUS tablet and it is more precise with less typo's.

Just one example (below) of many styles available... (CFS staff does not endorse or recommend any particular brand or source. The link below is just an example.)

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...1519229117&sr=8-11&keywords=tablet+stylus+pen
I changed the settings on the ipad got a bigger keyboard now. Hooray!
 
#7
In this country, it was Dr. Kevorkian. He was a pathologist and proponent of a patients 'right' to die via assisted suicide. Dr K passed a few years ago, but from time to time, the issue returns.

End of life issues, particularly if complicated by terminal disease is always challenging, both to the patient, and do those around him. I am active in an ostomy support group. Many, like myself, have had their surgeries due to cancer or other life-threatening conditions. A wonderful member of our group is currently battling the return of his cancer. Too often, I attend the funeral of someone that has had their cancer return (or it was never successfully eliminated). I am consistently amazed at the outlook many of these people have. From what I have seen, those whose outlook is 'how can I make the time I have to count the most for the people around me' fair much better as they are challenged than those who are consumed by the very real experiences they have.

I have thought many times about how I would react to my cancer returning (no sign of it yet, praise the Lord). I do know the potential for uncomfortable death, and I would much prefer that I pass quickly and peacefully, but I would not artificially cut my time short. I may not choose to undergo chemo again nor surgery, but it is not for fear of those nor an attempt to avoid an uncomfortable end, but a decision that if the Lord is calling me, I do not choose to get into a tug-of-war with God. For me, more is not necessarily better. I am content with what God has allotted me (but if He allows me another 65 years, I will still rejoice).

Others choose to fight to keep the precious gift of life as long as the Lord enables. I am in awe of their courage.
How did Dr K die?
 
#9
I think with cancer patients often it is the case if they know they have time left yes they will make each moment count. And be thankful for that. With other kinds of death its like here one day, gone the next.

I dont know about hiv or aids patients it seems now the palliative care is very high for them. Dementia patients often just dont know one way or the other and are happy just being cared for. We have free hospice services in this country for anyone facing terminal illness to be cared for, so its not a burden...nobody is allowed to kill these people. Or assist poisoning them.
 
#10
Was reading Job and very interesting how he suffered and thought he might be better off not even being born, and his wife told him to 'curse God and die'. I wonder if she meant she wanted her husband to die?! Or something else. Why did Mrs Job say that?
 
#11
Was reading Job and very interesting how he suffered and thought he might be better off not even being born, and his wife told him to 'curse God and die'. I wonder if she meant she wanted her husband to die?! Or something else. Why did Mrs Job say that?
I believe Jobs wife wanted God to take him away from his misery and thought he should anger God to provoke that action. Not really rational, but I do know that when one is watching their loved one in distress that they will want the end. When the patient does pass on, their grief surfaces. They are often overcome by grief, but many times they also come to peace. The grief is real and powerful, but so is the relief, particularly when they know that their loved one is with the Lord.

I have talked with people whos loved ones were in the process of dying. They are most concerned with their loved one not suffering. They do not really want their loved one to die, just that their loved one not be in pain or other distress. Death was not the preferred outcome, it becomes the least distressing of what was likely to happen.

I have noticed that many that profess belief in Christ, there is a peace about death itself, even if there is concern about the process.
 
#14
I dont think anyone wants to see anyone else suffer, but Jesus did so on the cross in public and he suffered so much, yet refused any poison that would make him die quicker.
I havent been on anyones death bed except for my cat, I held her paw as she died, she suffered a little and cried out but just sat with her to the very end. I was very adamant that she not go to the vet to be'put down'. We buried her in the backyard. She lived to be 18 years old, the last few years were difficult as she was aging and sad to see her not able to do the things she could when she was young. But I would never at any point think its so bad and shes a nusiance so lets just do away with her. My dad threatened to do so once, but the thing is when creatures get old they know but the least we can do is look after them. God teaches us we are precious even when we are weak!

I know in america they euthanise people on death row in prison with a lethal injection. I dont know if thats a merciful thing or a necessary thing, whether people repent when faced with death or not. But it seems like they dont suffer, or perhaps the suffering bit is just being imprisoned. JEsus was never actually imprisoned after this trial he was beaten and taken straight away to the cross pretty much.
 

Fish Catcher Jim

<>< Radically Saved ><>
Staff member
Senior Moderator
#15
Was reading Job and very interesting how he suffered and thought he might be better off not even being born, and his wife told him to 'curse God and die'. I wonder if she meant she wanted her husband to die?! Or something else. Why did Mrs Job say that?
Because satan put that thought on her.
THE Entire Point Of the devils attack was to get job to curse God.
 
#17
Well people that advocating euthanisia are often talking about it as the end of life.

Are you meaning we should look at it as the start of a new life, eternal life. Only if they are saved. I guess that is why in hosptials we have chaplains talking with people that are dying. So they can make the right choice for eternal life which is to believe in Jesus.
 

Fish Catcher Jim

<>< Radically Saved ><>
Staff member
Senior Moderator
#18
Well people that advocating euthanisia are often talking about it as the end of life.

Are you meaning we should look at it as the start of a new life, eternal life. Only if they are saved. I guess that is why in hosptials we have chaplains talking with people that are dying. So they can make the right choice for eternal life which is to believe in Jesus.
I don't see where this really fits into a Christian Forum where we should be teaching and building people up.

What can be gained?
 
#19
I work around many retirement villages and 'care units' so its something thats in the back of my mind most days especially when we go in to water the plants. Sometimes an ambulance comes and you know someone has been taken away. If the euthanisia bill comes in, there will be more deathmobiles. In. Some countries you can pretty much dial a death. Its that easy.
 
#20
Because this is what people are dealing with and its important to be aware of it especially for their loved ones in families that are presented with this issue. GOd knows we make the choice for Him. If you dont want to personalky talk about it, then dont respond.

We all face the end of our time on earth, the importsnt thing is will our death glorify Him or not. Its not going to go away just because you choose to ignore it.