Poison - 'end of life choice'

This is something I've given a great deal of thought to. First of all, I don't think anyone can die unless God allows it. That doesn't mean He wants it to happen, but He has to allow it. I've heard of many cases of botched suicide where very often the person winds up worse than they were before they attempted the suicide. So I don't think attempting suicide is a good idea.

As for medical euthanasia I'm in favor of it only when a person has a terminal disease and is in pain that cannot be stopped. This happens with cancer too often. I do not favor euthanasia for any and all reasons and I think that's what Lanolin is worried about. Very often a depressed person might want to die because when he/she's in the deepest parts of the depression he/she just can't see any reason to stay alive. This is why depression is a true illness. But God has a reason He's keeping that person here and once the person comes out of the deep parts of the depression eventually the reason becomes known, even if it takes several years. I know this because I've seen it happen.
 
There's a referendum on now about it in nz called end of life choice bill.
I'm still not sure what would happen if voting yes, but it will stay as it is if voting no.

I know with life support you can turn the machine off, but thats not the same as euthanasia, which is deliberately poisoning someone who's said they want to die. And I've heard they don't even need to be suffering (physically or mentally) or terminally ill, because in Holland people just say I want to die on this date, arrange it, and they don't need much clearance to do it. Of course they pay someone to do it.

Maybe all the other methods of coping with pain, with drugs, alcohol, morphine etc will cease? But then theres also on at the very same time, a referendum on cannabis reform. Whatever it is, people just don't like to be in pain. But it's the human condition to suffer isn't it? Who goes through life without suffering or sorrow?
 
I do not know what to say about this issue. Imagine having paralysis in the entire body and being only able to open the mouth. Imagine being severely physically ill. I do not know what to say, i suppose i would use my faith. Even then with faith there are no guarantees because God can let bad things happen to good people. God has his own will and all we can do is try and work around it, and be very humble about things. I would explore all the options before deciding to take these lethal drugs. It really depends.
 
Jesus had paralysis in his entire body and was only able to open his mouth on the cross.
And he still refused drugs...I mean the executioners were ready to poison him to get his death over and done with.

In France people used the guilltoine, meant to be a quicker and easier method of death.
 
I was stunned when a friend (a mature Christian) asked if I thought suicide was OK with God if a person was facing torture for their faith and afraid of denying Christ because of the pain. I do believe a believer who committed suicide because their mind was so messed up they couldn't think straight, might not have that counted against them. But to make a rational decision out of such a fear... it seems like it would be choosing to be one's own God. It wouldn't be any worse than caving in and denying our God. To me the only choice in such a case would be to cry out to Jesus to keep me faithful. Just to scream his name in the midst of the suffering. I've suffered severe pain at times and am not strong in myself so it would only be his strength that sustained me.

I do, however, believe God doesn't require us to accept life prolonging measures under certain circumstances mentioned in "Living Wills" - at least the ones I've seen.
 
I've heard of Jews at Masada all committed mass suicide instead of giving into the Romans and being captured.
I'm not sure what to think of that.

I know people don't want to have to suffer...but again Jesus never refused the cross. He carried it. It wasn't easy for him but he prayed and went through it.

I know many women don't want to have children and so they have abortions, which is kinda similar. They don't want to have to suffer being a mother or their child not to have a secure life. This is why we need to value parenthood all the more. It does take a village to raise a child, so why aren't we all rallying around children and helping out parents.

As for suffering illness, this is why we need to care even more for those who are ill even when we know they won't make it. Joseph of Arimithea did a good thing when he begged the body of Jesus. Nobody else could afford to, but he did, and Mary and others took the time to care for his body.

If care homes were better staffed and people in general were more caring, it would be easier. Caregiving isn't easy which is why caring needs to be valued more. If there was a caring index rather than a GPA or GDP and we could rank people and countries on how much they cared, we would all want to go where people cared and value this instead of grades and productivity.
 
The votes are in and the End of Life choice bill is passed.

The cannabis bill was not.

The deal seems to be that if you have a terminal illness that's going to be six months left to live, you are allowed to go early. It has to be physical pain, not mental, or disability.
I think with the way many people get cancer now, and all the treatments for it, operations, chemo, radiations, drugs etc people just can't face it.
I don't know, I don't think dying is ever easy whether it's from cancer or from massive amounts of poison, or a surprise heart attack or a stroke. The way people treat dying people though, needs to be addressed.

If euthanasia was by guillotine, or gunshot or hanging, would people want it? People in prisons on death sentences die by lethal injections, no longer do they get crucified or hanged or guillotined. What if it was gas?

You need to expect a certain amount of convulsion when you die, thats just the bodies dying process. Some people cry out. I've seen my cat die, I held her paw, she cried out but it was over quickly. Jesus also cried out with his last breath.

If anyone knows what it's like to face a painful death, it was Jesus.
 
Lanolin said:
The votes are in and the End of Life choice bill is passed.

The cannabis bill was not.

The deal seems to be that if you have a terminal illness that's going to be six months left to live, you are allowed to go early. It has to be physical pain, not mental, or disability.
I think with the way many people get cancer now, and all the treatments for it, operations, chemo, radiations, drugs etc people just can't face it.
I don't know, I don't think dying is ever easy whether it's from cancer or from massive amounts of poison, or a surprise heart attack or a stroke. The way people treat dying people though, needs to be addressed.

If euthanasia was by guillotine, or gunshot or hanging, would people want it? People in prisons on death sentences die by lethal injections, no longer do they get crucified or hanged or guillotined. What if it was gas?

You need to expect a certain amount of convulsion when you die, thats just the bodies dying process. Some people cry out. I've seen my cat die, I held her paw, she cried out but it was over quickly. Jesus also cried out with his last breath.

If anyone knows what it's like to face a painful death, it was Jesus
Click to expand...

Some US states still use electrocution as either a primary or secondary method. Three states (Delaware, New Hampshire, and Washington) use hanging as a secondary method. Three states (Mississippi, Oklahoma and Utah) still allow a firing squad as a secondary method of execution.

rtm
 
I don't know too much about lethal injections, but say if you wanted to donate your organs, wouldn't that ruin them?
I suppose if dying from a terminal illness your body may be too diseased to be of much use.

In NZ it seems capital punishment for all crimes was abolished in 1989. Prior to that 85 executions were performed, all by hanging.
 
Lanolin said:
I don't know too much about lethal injections, but say if you wanted to donate your organs, wouldn't that ruin them?
I suppose if dying from a terminal illness your body may be too diseased to be of much use.

In NZ it seems capital punishment for all crimes was abolished in 1989. Prior to that 85 executions were performed, all by hanging.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting question. "Although no law specifically forbids death row inmates from donating organs postmortem, as of 2013 all requests by death row inmates to donate their organs after execution have been denied by states. Autopsies of executed inmates show internal organ damage."

As of September 3, 2020, twelve inmates have been executed in the United States in 2020, eleven by lethal injection and one by electrocution. In addition, a total of four death row inmates are currently scheduled to be executed in the remainder of the year.

In 2019, 22 people were executed. The youngest was 37 and the oldest 70. Two were electrocuted and the rest through lethal injection. The fastest was 7 years after sentencing and the slowest was 38 years after sentencing. Texas did the most with 9.
 
Yeah, get one letter out of place and your entire post is urined.

You can get a keyboard at a thrift store for like five bux. Look for one with a USB connector. Then get an adapter to fit your phone and you can use the keyboard to type into your phone.

An even better trick is to get a keyboard with ps2 connector and then you can get a ps2 splitter so you can use both a mouse and a keyboard.

As for the original question, the problem is there is no way to tell if a suicide was voluntary or imposed.
 
not sure what you mean by 'imposed suicide'.

I think when you die by your own hand, that's suicide, when you are assisted, it's someone else agreeing to help you. A lot of people might leave a note, but if they are successful an autopsy can tell in many instances what happened.

People can kill others and make it look like suicide I guess.

With this law, its people wanting to and apparently there are rules about when and how. I guess with many suicides though they take everyone by surprise as how many say I had no idea they wanted to die, even those closest to them. But they didn't die by accident, thats the thing, suicide is deliberate.

I think they are trying to make it so that people don't profit from it maybe, and the people helping aren't seen as murderers. But you can't help thinking that people WILL profit from it (not just the undertakers, but it costs to get it done, just like people pay an abortionist).
 
mm I don't know if thats true in all cases, but they make it sound like theres a whole legal thing to go through so that it doesn't end up being murder. Legalised murder?
In Holland, they ask to be put in a coma for 3 days before another injection to end it.

I think if people are dying they might just die naturally in their sleep without the euthanasia. I mean surely if you talk it over with God you could have that peace before you go and you won't have to pay anyone who you don't even know to end your life for you?
 
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