Pope's New Tweet

LysanderShapiro said:
You're right for saying our only mediator is Jesus -- this is true. Only one has been a mediator between man and God, and that's Christ -- this is the position of the Catholic Church as well, so the Church and you are in total agreement.

Mary isn't a secondary mediator between man and God, but we do intercede for one another when we pray for each other. Let's say Joe Schmoe is having problems with his spiritual life. He could go to his room and pray, one on one, to God, and I'd say that's not a bad thing at all--actually, it's a good thing. However, it would be even better if Joe went to his prayer group or to his church pastor and asked everyone to pray for him. The intercession of fellow Christians--especially ones close to God--is so much more powerful.

This is the role of Mary. We understand that no one has ever been so close to our Lord than she was because she is His mother. We also honor her (not worship her) because Jesus honored her since we are all commanded to honor our parents. When we honor her, we only mean to imitate Jesus.

So to briefly put it:
-Jesus is the only mediator between man and God.
-We have a duty, as Christians, to pray for each other and help direct each other to Christ.
-Mary, being the mother, was the closest person to Christ.
-Mary helps direct us to her son.
-We honor Mary as a mother because that's what Jesus did, and we want to be like Jesus.

That's the simplest way I could put it. I think without explanation, it does lead to a lot of misunderstanding.
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What do you think about this passage? Didn't Jesus simply refute the same logic you are proposing here?

The True Family of Jesus
46 As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. 47 Someone told Jesus, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, and they want to speak to you.”

48 Jesus asked, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?” 49 Then he pointed to his disciples and said, “Look, these are my mother and brothers. 50 Anyone who does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother!”
 
LanceA said:
http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2014/September10/104.html

So what does everyone think of this? Let's not make this a bashing the Catholic thread, just discuss what the Pope tweeted.
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The Roman Pontiff has been nothing but gratuitous to the world community and is by far the best ambassador of Christendom in our world today. For one, this tweet was not even about a theological matter, it was purely a familiar connection with the Christian sainthood. I think of Mary as a mother figure often. I think the objection to this is really a very extreme form of "Christ Alone" I don't think that doctrine was ever intended to literally mean to block out everyone and everything except Jesus.

Now, this website seems to be a bit anti-Catholic, but I also wanted to point out, the Pope's comments about homosexuality were completely in line with Catholic theology and Christian theology in general.
 
Ravindran said:
What do you think about this passage? Didn't Jesus simply refute the same logic you are proposing here?

The True Family of Jesus
46 As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. 47 Someone told Jesus, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, and they want to speak to you.”

48 Jesus asked, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?” 49 Then he pointed to his disciples and said, “Look, these are my mother and brothers. 50 Anyone who does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother!”
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This passage speaks in regards to the spiritual family. This, like so many other passages, is Christ speaking in hyperbole. For example, Luke 14:26 -- Christ doesn't want us to hate our parents, but we can't honor them above Christ.

Christ never disowned His family, though he did offer His mother to the apostle John before His death.

So the answer is no, this passage has absolutely no contradiction. Though I appreciate the question :)
 
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Godspell said:
The Roman Pontiff has been nothing but gratuitous to the world community and is by far the best ambassador of Christendom in our world today. For one, this tweet was not even about a theological matter, it was purely a familiar connection with the Christian sainthood. I think of Mary as a mother figure often. I think the objection to this is really a very extreme form of "Christ Alone" I don't think that doctrine was ever intended to literally mean to block out everyone and everything except Jesus.

Now, this website seems to be a bit anti-Catholic, but I also wanted to point out, the Pope's comments about homosexuality were completely in line with Catholic theology and Christian theology in general.
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And many would say that Dr. Billy Graham is by far the best ambassador of Christendom in our world today.

You said......."Now, this website seems to be a bit anti-Catholic,".

I have no desire to argue with as you have the right to your opinion just as do the rest of us.....so please do not take this as a confrontational remark. I am simply pointing out what you just did. But do you not see how your comments can inflame those who do not agree with your opinion???
Do you think you might want to re-think your comments.

The problem will come when someone responds to you, you will then have the ability to say that they are anti-Catholic when it was actually YOU who instigated such an action by your opinion.

You see, I would have never made the comment that Dr. Graham was the most.............................. "by far the best ambassador of Christendom in our world today".

Do you know why???? Because I KNOW that you and every other Catholic believer would be hurt, angered, up in arms and would immediately call for something to be done about my insensitivity to others religions.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
This passage speaks in regards to the spiritual family. This, like so many other passages, is Christ speaking in hyperbole. For example, Luke 14:26 -- Christ doesn't want us to hate our parents, but we can't honor them above Christ.

Christ never disowned His family, though he did offer His mother to the apostle John before His death.

So the answer is no, this passage has absolutely no contradiction. Though I appreciate the question :)
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Good answer, I agree with you.
 
lol on "anti-Protestant". Funny how Protestants do not use a phrase such as "your just anti-Protestant" or "Protestant bashing". It speaks well for Protestants and non-Protestants alike.
 
On the lighter side, Mark Lowry has great insights on the relationship between Mary and Jesus in his comedy/testimony time during Gaither singing performances. Such as, "When Jesus was a child, and he left the door hang open, did Mary say, "Were you born in a barn?"" and , "When Mary tells Jesus the wine is gone, during the wedding party in Cana, He said, "Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come." You better be the Son of God if your going to speak to your mother that way."
Just sharing.
 
IMO:
I found it simply a rhetoric when one will label the other as “anti” of differing POV

Critical thinking is objective to its accepted doctrine, teachings, guidelines...

If one is faithful or committed to a doctrine, it is faithful to itself... the differing doctrine is irrelevant to it...

thus, if one will say the first is "anti" to the latter, it is simply rhetoric...

say, Arminianism is different from Calvinism… it simply rhetoric to say Arminianism is anti-Calvinism..
 
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Everyone, I appreciate the two cents, but let's stick the subject. The subject isn't the use of anti-suchandsuch, but what was tweeted and whether he is right or mistaken.
 
LanceA said:
http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2014/September10/104.html

So what does everyone think of this? Let's not make this a bashing the Catholic thread, just discuss what the Pope tweeted.
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In answer to the question "So what does everyone think of this?", I think what was tweeted by the Pope was in line with RCC teaching and as such is fine for the adherents of the RCC. I further believe that it has no relevance or appeal or edification for the rest of Christendom.
 
I am Protestant and recognize that it can seem a hobby by many Protestants to denigrate the RCC. There is much about the RCC I admire, but not yet so much that I would seek to become a member and the points found in this thread is part of the reason. How, from reading Scripture, does one place Mary in a position any greater than that of Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses...? Please understand that this is a sincere question and is no way intended to be an insulting challenge.
 
R-C said:
I am Protestant and recognize that it can seem a hobby by many Protestants to denigrate the RCC. There is much about the RCC I admire, but not yet so much that I would seek to become a member and the points found in this thread is part of the reason. How, from reading Scripture, does one place Mary in a position any greater than that of Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses...? Please understand that this is a sincere question and is no way intended to be an insulting challenge.
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I believe that by any legitimate exegesis there is no Scripture that supports or encourages that practice.
But it must be remembered that adherents to the RCC are not confined in their belief system to what is called Sola Scriptura (I think I got the spelling right) or Scripture alone.
So for them the veneration of Mary is OK, along with several other non Biblical practices.
How they will fair at the time of judgment is not for us to say, as for myself I have no intention of following the practice.
Personally I believe that Mary should be given more mention in the Protestant Churches than she is, but not to the extent the RCC does...but that is me.
Luke 1:41. And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit,
Luke 1:42. and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
Luke 1:43. And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Probably/possibly someone from the RCC will cite the above scripture. And that is OK as long as there is no Eisegesis applied to it to go beyond what is written IMO.
But I do think and I would like to see Mary given a little more recognition (within the confines of sound exegesis) than she has historically been given by the protestant Churches. I, myself am a protestant Christian, definitely not RCC.
Mary was the mother of the man Jesus.
Mary was chosen and blessed above all other women. But there, from a protestant perspective the story should end. IMO.
 
R-C said:
I am Protestant and recognize that it can seem a hobby by many Protestants to denigrate the RCC. There is much about the RCC I admire, but not yet so much that I would seek to become a member and the points found in this thread is part of the reason. How, from reading Scripture, does one place Mary in a position any greater than that of Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses...? Please understand that this is a sincere question and is no way intended to be an insulting challenge.
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That is a wonderful question.
From a Catholic perspective, we honor Mary because Jesus did as His mother. God showed favor in her choosing her to be His mother in flesh, and so we honor her. We recognize her as a help in guiding us to the one we worship--her son, Jesus. We see this role mentioned in John 2, her favor with God in Luke 1, and continuation of this role in Revelation 12.
 
I have, since my last post, read the link. The position taken by the Pope is a strong (which it should be as for any statement of belief). As stated earlier, I have great respect for the RCC, but I am finding mariology to be an ever greater point of disagreement as I learn more. How,if we are to be born of the spirit, is there room for reliance upon Mary? I do believe that to say, "she is inspirational" minimizes all that she represents. But the RCC seems to place her in a position which a Protestant would construe as deification. Would this be accurate? If not, can more explanation be provided?
 
R-C said:
I have, since my last post, read the link. The position taken by the Pope is a strong (which it should be as for any statement of belief). As stated earlier, I have great respect for the RCC, but I am finding mariology to be an ever greater point of disagreement as I learn more. How,if we are to be born of the spirit, is there room for reliance upon Mary? I do believe that to say, "she is inspirational" minimizes all that she represents. But the RCC seems to place her in a position which a Protestant would construe as deification. Would this be accurate? If not, can more explanation be provided?
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What would you like to know?
 
Major said:
And many would say that Dr. Billy Graham is by far the best ambassador of Christendom in our world today.

You said......."Now, this website seems to be a bit anti-Catholic,".

I have no desire to argue with as you have the right to your opinion just as do the rest of us.....so please do not take this as a confrontational remark. I am simply pointing out what you just did. But do you not see how your comments can inflame those who do not agree with your opinion???
Do you think you might want to re-think your comments.

The problem will come when someone responds to you, you will then have the ability to say that they are anti-Catholic when it was actually YOU who instigated such an action by your opinion.

You see, I would have never made the comment that Dr. Graham was the most.............................. "by far the best ambassador of Christendom in our world today".

Do you know why???? Because I KNOW that you and every other Catholic believer would be hurt, angered, up in arms and would immediately call for something to be done about my insensitivity to others religions.
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Billy Graham is a great ambassador also, but he doesn't have as far of a reach throughout the world as Francis.

Also, Francis I've seen has done a great deal of very humble gestures and taken a firm stand against violence and injustice. Now, you might differ in this opinion, which I respect, but I feel that most of the American religious leaders (including Catholic bishops) have taken up their swords in the culture war. I understand it, but I feel that such actions are misplaced because I honestly don't believe that most people who support SSM, abortion, promiscuity, etc. have truly malevolent intention, but many of those suffering from third world trauma come as a result of malice.

So for me, worldwide injustice is a much more pressing matter than the culture war, which is why it is my opinion that Francis is a better worldwide ambassador. That is just my opinion, however. That being said, I haven't heard Francis say anything grossly contradictory to Christian sentiment worldwide, which is why I'm a bit defensive about what I feel is Catholic prejudice, which I sensed from the article.

Sorry if I offended you, I seem to jump onto the wrong foot whenever we share a thread, so I'll try to be more mindful of my posts. For the record I think Billy Graham is a great pastor also.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
What would you like to know?
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Lysander, first let me apologize for bringing any unwarranted confrontation to your thread. I am perhaps to defensive to this particular bishop of Rome because I feel he's been a wonderful icon of a good Christian (helpful, kind and loving). I also did not read from his tweet anything to indicate an adherence to Mariology, I felt he was really just wanting to implore Protestants to give her due honor and respect which in view of her as a mother figure I believe would be a proper honor.

However, I did want to know, in some ways I do think the RCC puts her in a theological role that she does not have. I've heard there is a movement to add into dogmatic mariology the doctrine that she is "mediatrix and co-redemtrix". I do believe that in the role of mediator one can make an intercession for a brother, and I believe saints could do this as well, though I don't believe in prayer to saints. However, why "co-redeemer"? In some aspects I feel that the RCC trends a thin line of adding another hypostasis to the Godhead.
 
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