Prophecy about DNA: Good and Evil Seed

[Ph8th]

With all due respect to you my brother, I have to say that the quote....."Jesus is the same yesterday, to day and tomorrow"(Heb 13:8)
may very well be one of the most miss-understood verses in the Scriptures.

We see it used all the time by those who want to believe what God allowed yesterday He will allow today.
Does that mean Jesus will then be crucified yet once again? .........NO!
Does that mean God will tell someone to build another Ark?.........NO!
Does that mean salvation now means we have to keep the law?.....NO!

We tend to pick out something and hang our hats on it because it seems to validate what we want to believe. But if we do that in this case, what do we then do with Hebrews 1:1-2.......
"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world."

You see, that verse tells us that God does change!!!! What once God's mode of operation changed and now we listen to the Lord Jesus Christ and what He said.

Christ the incarnate Word was with the Father in the beginning before the world was. As God's eternal Son HE was the same in the beginning as He is today and He will be the same tomorrow. His love, His holiness, compassion never change and it is HIM who satisfies and apart from Him there is no abiding peace and joy. HOWEVER, that does not mean that because something was done YESTERDAY it must be accepted as normal today.

Because tongues were spoken by the apostles 2000 years ago in the transition from Law to Grace and from form to Christ, does not mean that is accepted as normal for the believer today. The same thought would apply to healings by "men". Because the apostles healed men then does not mean that a man can heal people today by knocking them to the ground in Jesus name.

Heb 13:8 then is all about RELATIONSHIPS. Jesus is unchangeable in relationship and He abides the same as always. The love that brought Him to man continues now as it did 2000 years ago and in fact that alone tells us He has CHANGED.

2000 years ago He walked among men....TODAY He sits at the right hand of the Father.

2000 years ago He was the dying Saviour, beaten and killed. TODAY He is our advocate glorified and filled with honor power and glory.
He has CHANGED!

2000 years ago He died on the cross but soon and very soon He is returning as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords to put an end to sin, and the curse and then He will be the JUDGE.

Brother, I would address your whole post but I do not have time nor would it be fruitful. The attributes of God are never changing they are not things He does they are things He is.

( The same thought would apply to healings by "men". Because the apostles healed men then does not mean that a man can heal people today by knocking them to the ground in Jesus name.)

I do not believe that that men ever healed anyone apostle or other wise.

It was Christ who healed they were just the vessel He worked through

To not hold on to the promises of God and believe that He is as He was and the gifts of Holy Spirit are just something that took place then is to say God was............. That is

 

[Major]

I was simply presenting questions for clarification as to what is the perfect that has come.
It clearly was not the Lord for reasons I had already stated .
The Bride then for she too must be perfected .
You suggested the Bible or the scriptures.
I believe you would need to prove that and can only do so by more than you presented .

I would suggest it is more than likely to be the Bride of Christ .
For the gifts are for the churches edification and the ministers of God for its perfection .
For both the gifts and the ministers are in that context the church or the Bride .

When the church or Bride of Christ is perfected there will be no need for the gifts for they shall pass or prophecy .
But those ministers of God are not hirelings in it for the money but are called of God made by God and enabled by God and do minister in and for the Love of God .

You do not or have not answered why ;given the list in Ephesians, Paul counts Prophets and Apostles as part of that body of ministers who are called to minister to the Church are all PRESENT but the first two .
Is it perchance that the churches present ministers of pastors and teachers and evangelists do not wish to see or have some one in higher authority than they? (For the record I am NOT talking about prelates who call themselves apostles in direct link to Peter )Im talking about spiritual authority.
But whether they do or do not and for whatever reason they do not recognise any as such . I believe they do exist. They are simply not the premadonnas parading on the church stage today or carried about on mens shoulders dressed in white and full of double talk .

As to the number 12 . I would agree that if the Lord needed only 12 to change the world .Then he does not need more than 12 today.
was not Paul the Apostle to the gentiles?
Yet he was called of the Lord "out of time" . He also spoke of things that the Lord said the others did not . "it is far better to give than to receive"(?)

Yet his gospel was not of men . and the other Apostles "added nothing to him" or needed to correct him. For he spoke the truth.

His knowledge of scripture as Saul of Tarsus was probably greater than them all . But not with any understanding despite Hebrew being his mother tongue . and despite the fact that the Old Testament "was able to make you wise unto salvation" He clearly despite his great knowledge of scripture was not saved until the illumination of the Holy Spirit gavc him a knowledge of Christ that made all his 'qualifications ' worth nothing and he counted "as dung".
I would argue that those three years" in the Arabian desert " was where he was transformed by the renewal of his mind and all that scripture which he knew by intellect was; by the Holy Spirit, put in its proper order and place and context in the light and illumination of Gods perspective of scripture .
Thus he was an Apostle called and made by God and not elected or made by men.

ALL men of God are made by God . But Ministers of God if it can be said expecially so .
For even as Moses was challenged as to his calling and ministry. He did not defend himself being the meekest of all men . Not like these popenjays who demand blind obedience to their supposed authority .
I would suggest the church still needs such men . Who do not and will not "lord it over the church " as after the "Nicolaitans "

In Christ
gerald

I do not think that the "perfect One " in 1 Corth. 13 can be the Bride of Christ. BUT it really does not matter what I think. As I said............
"the perfect is referring to the word of God because in the Greek its in the neutered term meaning not male or female its referring to an object not a person and that OBJECT is God's word and for bills answer the cross reference is James 1:25.

I understand your thinking but the fact is that the grammatical Greek language can not be explained away to allow the Perfect One to be a Person or Persons (Bride of Christ).

 

[GBzone]

With all due respect to you my brother, I have to say that the quote....."Jesus is the same yesterday, to day and tomorrow"(Heb 13:8)
may very well be one of the most miss-understood verses in the Scriptures.

We see it used all the time by those who want to believe what God allowed yesterday He will allow today.
Does that mean Jesus will then be crucified yet once again? .........NO!
Does that mean God will tell someone to build another Ark?.........NO!
Does that mean salvation now means we have to keep the law?.....NO!

We tend to pick out something and hang our hats on it because it seems to validate what we want to believe. But if we do that in this case, what do we then do with Hebrews 1:1-2.......
"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world."

You see, that verse tells us that God does change!!!! What once God's mode of operation changed and now we listen to the Lord Jesus Christ and what He said.

Christ the incarnate Word was with the Father in the beginning before the world was. As God's eternal Son HE was the same in the beginning as He is today and He will be the same tomorrow. His love, His holiness, compassion never change and it is HIM who satisfies and apart from Him there is no abiding peace and joy. HOWEVER, that does not mean that because something was done YESTERDAY it must be accepted as normal today.

Because tongues were spoken by the apostles 2000 years ago in the transition from Law to Grace and from form to Christ, does not mean that is accepted as normal for the believer today. The same thought would apply to healings by "men". Because the apostles healed men then does not mean that a man can heal people today by knocking them to the ground in Jesus name.

Heb 13:8 then is all about RELATIONSHIPS. Jesus is unchangeable in relationship and He abides the same as always. The love that brought Him to man continues now as it did 2000 years ago and in fact that alone tells us He has CHANGED.

2000 years ago He walked among men....TODAY He sits at the right hand of the Father.

2000 years ago He was the dying Saviour, beaten and killed. TODAY He is our advocate glorified and filled with honor power and glory.
He has CHANGED!

2000 years ago He died on the cross but soon and very soon He is returning as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords to put an end to sin, and the curse and then He will be the JUDGE.

As to His nature ,character and disposition He Has not changed.

Who do you think it was who was walking in the cool of the evening in the garden "as was his custom"?

Is it not written "the voice of the Lord walked in the cool of the evening "
have you ever considered how a VOICE can walk?
I did and could not find an answer to it .So I stepped back one space and considered ...
what is a voice?
That I did find an answer to.
A voice is a WORD without a body.

Is it not written " a body hast thou prepared for me"
It was the Lord who walked in the cool of the evening who came seeking those who were lost .

It was the Lord they rejected who gave them first a covering of animal sacrifice to give them the covering of an animal skins .It was the Lord who at the same time after gave them a promise .
It was the Lord who by His word cursed the serpent

I do not think that the "perfect One " in 1 Corth. 13 can be the Bride of Christ. BUT it really does not matter what I think. As I said............
"the perfect is referring to the word of God because in the Greek its in the neutered term meaning not male or female its referring to an object not a person and that OBJECT is God's word and for bills answer the cross reference is James 1:25.

I understand your thinking but the fact is that the grammatical Greek language can not be explained away to allow the Perfect One to be a Person or Persons (Bride of Christ).

"Is there no male or female in Christ"?

In Christ
gerald

 

[Silk]

If you look, listen, and hear with faith...you will see the signs and wonders meant for the Bride, as long ago prophesized in scripture and are happening today. We were told long ago so that we would not mistake God's glory with the lies and wonders of the Adversary. Those who understand that will overcome.

 

[Major]

As to His nature ,character and disposition He Has not changed.

Who do you think it was who was walking in the cool of the evening in the garden "as was his custom"?

Is it not written "the voice of the Lord walked in the cool of the evening "
have you ever considered how a VOICE can walk?
I did and could not find an answer to it .So I stepped back one space and considered ...
what is a voice?
That I did find an answer to.
A voice is a WORD without a body.

Is it not written " a body hast thou prepared for me"
It was the Lord who walked in the cool of the evening who came seeking those who were lost .

It was the Lord they rejected who gave them first a covering of animal sacrifice to give them the covering of an animal skins .It was the Lord who at the same time after gave them a promise .
It was the Lord who by His word cursed the serpent


"Is there no male or female in Christ"?

In Christ
gerald

I wish knew what in the world you are trying to say. I think you are in agreement but I am not positive.

What you have posted here is of course Biblically true.

Christ has not changed and can not change in His ATTRIBUTES........His nature, character and person.

But the focus on my comments from the book of Hebrews 13:8 where this verse is found, does not mean that because Christ does not change in those areas we as Christians should still be able to speak in tongues, heal sick, raise the dead and drink poison etc.

That is NOT what the meaning and understanding is from Hebrews 13:8. A lot of people have mis-interpreted that verse so as to allow them to practice and or believe those things are valid today.

Would you care to speak to that comment without all the extra stuff added????? I would be interested to know your position as you do seem to have a considerable amount of Bible understanding.

 

[GBzone]

I wish knew what in the world you are trying to say. I think you are in agreement but I am not positive.

What you have posted here is of course Biblically true.

Christ has not changed and can not change in His ATTRIBUTES........His nature, character and person.

But the focus on my comments from the book of Hebrews 13:8 where this verse is found, does not mean that because Christ does not change in those areas we as Christians should still be able to speak in tongues, heal sick, raise the dead and drink poison etc.

That is NOT what the meaning and understanding is from Hebrews 13:8. A lot of people have mis-interpreted that verse so as to allow them to practice and or believe those things are valid today.

Would you care to speak to that comment without all the extra stuff added????? I would be interested to know your position as you do seem to have a considerable amount of Bible understanding.

I was simply showing that the Lords plan of salvation was laid out by God in the garden of Eden that when a person does get saved or rather BORNagain he does but enter that eternal will of God preordained for man from before the foundation of the world In THAT regard also God has not changed .
I do not agree with the idea that the gifts and indeed the ministries of God and the holy Spirit have stopped nor no longer needed.

As to miracles did not the Lord Himself say "ye shall do greater works........? " Now there is no greater work than raising the dead .No man can save another which is a rising form the dead. But a man can be healed and delivered and some raised form the dead as it was in the Lords time.
But in what way greater? He was called" to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" and beign in the flesh was limited in His ministry to the Jews FIRST . as is the order of God.
But to all who are to walk ".,....as he walked" They are to go out into all the world and therefore greater . field of work. Nor could it be said that those gifts are no longer needed.
In the West which covers a comparatively small area .We have come to rely on medical services. But \I think if you lived in amny other places in the world you would be very grateful that God can still heal and deliver.
and the way things are going in the UK expecialy God is still needed ,.

But having witnessed the healing of people both instantaneous ,overnight and in tiem in answer to prayer .I would have to disagree with you not only by scripture not only by the need but also by experience. Notwithstanding the false apostles and self proclaimed prophets" making merchandise of Gods people" I do not hold to the idea that I should reject truth that is demonstrably so by the errors of others.
Why should you assume that tounges have ceased?
When Paul says "I wish that ye all spoke in tounges?
Notwithstanding the false manifestations and excesses of the flesh by some .
How is is that we will listen to Paul about most things(?) but not also in this?
The gifts are for the edification of the body .Does not the body not still neede edifying.
The use of that verse Jesus is the same ........ Can also and does apply to the Holy Spirit also.
God is not dead .Nor do I think you think He is. But He who, was is the eternal I am and is he not |He who has come "to abide in us forever?"
I don't know about you . But in prayer often "I know not what to pray for" and in the praise and worship of God words often fail me yet needs must express what is in my heart.

You can be saved or rather BORNagain and not speak in tounges . Speaking in tounges is NOT proof that you are filled with the |Holy Spirit .For it is not the GIFTS that is proof but the FRUIT of the Spirit that is proof .For" by their fruits ye shall know them"

Do you know how long it took the children of Israel to get from Egypt to the banks of the river Jordan and the promised land?
Nearly everyone says 40 YEARS .The reason? Because over years and years and years the church has justified its unbelief by thinking that wandering in the wilderness of this world is the NORM of a Christian life .
If you search the scriptures you will find that God led them to the promised land in 40 DAYS ,
Paul warns me ,us; the church; not to be like them "who entered not in because of unbelief " For a long time I used to think that unbelief was simply not believing God .Its not . It also involves believing the wrong message .
The vast majority believed the message of the ten spies who saw things only after the flesh and by sight . As if the last 40 DAYS had enver happened and all that God had already done was as a morning mist .(Go and see what they had forgotten)
The two faithfull witnesses saw the very same things but in the true light of what God had done ,who it was who was with them and what he ahd promised for the future and in that light said we can go in.
Eve believed the message of the serpent and in doing so believed not the message of God.

So I do believe that God has given the gifts and the ministry to the church for the same reason he gave them in the beginning .
For the above reasons and more.

in Christ
gerald

 

[Heart_for_Christ]

I don't understand why anyone doesn't believe in modern day miracles.
Mk 16:17 "And these signs shall follow them that believe ; In my name shall they cast out devils ; they shall speak with new tongues ;" 18 "They shall take up serpents ; and if they drink any deadly thing , it shall not hurt them ; they shall lay hands on the sick , and they shall recover ."

I believe God still wants us to perform these miracles so unbelievers can see that He is real.
Secondly, I don't understand why we can't have modern day apostles
Ac 1:23 And they appointed two , Joseph called Barsabas , who was surnamed Justus , and Matthias . 24 And they prayed , and said , Thou , Lord , which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen , 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship , from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place . 26 And they gave forth their lots ; and the lot fell upon Matthias ; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles .
And wasn't Paul an apostle? Yet Jesus had already risen. Paul was actually killing Christians when Jesus appeared to him.

Therefore by disbelieving in modern day apostles and miracles are we not disbelieving scripture?

 

[Silk]

Ever notice? The demoniac (demon possessed person) follows scripture and speaks languages that while unlearned by the host, IS a known language. Well... in between the barking, growling, and screeching. Paul wrote to the Corinthians because they were misusing tongues. This is a perennial no one wins argument. Why would God give a gift like modern tongues that a) can be faked so easily b) sounds like nonsense even to the speaker and edifies no one c) as a prayer language - why would God talking to Himself need to be thru a human? Who does this edify? And why would God need to talk to Himself, anyway??? d) Tongues was used in scripture to reach the unbeliever in his/her own language. Modern tongues makes no sense to anybody and makes Christ's message of salvation a mockery to the unbeliever.

Is this to say that God doesn't continue miracles, healing, talking to us?? NO. It says no one can boast because the power and glory belongs to God. IF I lay my hands on you and you are healed - I AM NOT THE ONE WHO DID THE HEALING. If I take credit for my "healing hands" than I am lying to you. If you prophesize and aren't 100% accurate then you are 100% wrong. That test is biblical/scriptural. If you are looking for new revelations, other than scripture illumination, than what you are looking for is not of God or from Him. This kind of thinking implies God needs man and this is simply not true. That we need Him does not reverse it to He needs anyone. He loves us with a love that "passeth understanding" - don't mistake that for He needs us.

 

[Major]

I was simply showing that the Lords plan of salvation was laid out by God in the garden of Eden that when a person does get saved or rather BORNagain he does but enter that eternal will of God preordained for man from before the foundation of the world In THAT regard also God has not changed .
I do not agree with the idea that the gifts and indeed the ministries of God and the holy Spirit have stopped nor no longer needed.

As to miracles did not the Lord Himself say "ye shall do greater works........? " Now there is no greater work than raising the dead .No man can save another which is a rising form the dead. But a man can be healed and delivered and some raised form the dead as it was in the Lords time.
But in what way greater? He was called" to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" and beign in the flesh was limited in His ministry to the Jews FIRST . as is the order of God.
But to all who are to walk ".,....as he walked" They are to go out into all the world and therefore greater . field of work. Nor could it be said that those gifts are no longer needed.
In the West which covers a comparatively small area .We have come to rely on medical services. But \I think if you lived in amny other places in the world you would be very grateful that God can still heal and deliver.
and the way things are going in the UK expecialy God is still needed ,.

But having witnessed the healing of people both instantaneous ,overnight and in tiem in answer to prayer .I would have to disagree with you not only by scripture not only by the need but also by experience. Notwithstanding the false apostles and self proclaimed prophets" making merchandise of Gods people" I do not hold to the idea that I should reject truth that is demonstrably so by the errors of others.
Why should you assume that tounges have ceased?
When Paul says "I wish that ye all spoke in tounges?
Notwithstanding the false manifestations and excesses of the flesh by some .
How is is that we will listen to Paul about most things(?) but not also in this?
The gifts are for the edification of the body .Does not the body not still neede edifying.
The use of that verse Jesus is the same ........ Can also and does apply to the Holy Spirit also.
God is not dead .Nor do I think you think He is. But He who, was is the eternal I am and is he not |He who has come "to abide in us forever?"
I don't know about you . But in prayer often "I know not what to pray for" and in the praise and worship of God words often fail me yet needs must express what is in my heart.

You can be saved or rather BORNagain and not speak in tounges . Speaking in tounges is NOT proof that you are filled with the |Holy Spirit .For it is not the GIFTS that is proof but the FRUIT of the Spirit that is proof .For" by their fruits ye shall know them"

Do you know how long it took the children of Israel to get from Egypt to the banks of the river Jordan and the promised land?
Nearly everyone says 40 YEARS .The reason? Because over years and years and years the church has justified its unbelief by thinking that wandering in the wilderness of this world is the NORM of a Christian life .
If you search the scriptures you will find that God led them to the promised land in 40 DAYS ,
Paul warns me ,us; the church; not to be like them "who entered not in because of unbelief " For a long time I used to think that unbelief was simply not believing God .Its not . It also involves believing the wrong message .
The vast majority believed the message of the ten spies who saw things only after the flesh and by sight . As if the last 40 DAYS had enver happened and all that God had already done was as a morning mist .(Go and see what they had forgotten)
The two faithfull witnesses saw the very same things but in the true light of what God had done ,who it was who was with them and what he ahd promised for the future and in that light said we can go in.
Eve believed the message of the serpent and in doing so believed not the message of God.

So I do believe that God has given the gifts and the ministry to the church for the same reason he gave them in the beginning .
For the above reasons and more.

in Christ
gerald

Then I can assume that you reject 1 Corinthians 13:8-10
"Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away."

 

[GBzone]

I don't understand why anyone doesn't believe in modern day miracles.
Mk 16:17 "And these signs shall follow them that believe ; In my name shall they cast out devils ; they shall speak with new tongues ;" 18 "They shall take up serpents ; and if they drink any deadly thing , it shall not hurt them ; they shall lay hands on the sick , and they shall recover ."

I believe God still wants us to perform these miracles so unbelievers can see that He is real.
Secondly, I don't understand why we can't have modern day apostles
Ac 1:23 And they appointed two , Joseph called Barsabas , who was surnamed Justus , and Matthias . 24 And they prayed , and said , Thou , Lord , which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen , 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship , from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place . 26 And they gave forth their lots ; and the lot fell upon Matthias ; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles .
And wasn't Paul an apostle? Yet Jesus had already risen. Paul was actually killing Christians when Jesus appeared to him.

Therefore by disbelieving in modern day apostles and miracles are we not disbelieving scripture?

"I believe God wants us to perform these miracles so unbelievers can see that he is real"

Two things wrong with this statement . If Jesus said " The words that I speak are not my words but the father who is in me HE DOETH THE WORK" How can we then can we say that it is we or us who performs the miracles?
Expecialy in the light of "without Me you can do nothing".
When Peter and John went to the Temple via the beautiful gate and said to the lame man look on us and when he did thinking he was going n to receive some alms . Then Peter said the words in the name of Jesus Christ rise up and walk. The man went leaping and jumping and praising God all the way to the temple and when the people saw it they rushed towards Peter and John and looked upon them in such a manner that peter replied "why look on us ?" it is not by our power and holiness that we have done this thing but through faith in the name of Jesus Christ" The glory he gave to God even as it was .
The other thing is that the reality of God is beyond dispute and manifest in all of creation even as Paul so argued in Romans . we are not debtors to the flesh that we should gives signs as proof even as Jesus did not .
The healings and the deliverances was for the peoples sake who needed them because God is a good God.
It was and is also the will of God and a manifestation of the kingdom of God . But we should understand that despite all the miracles that Jesus did .He was still rejected and crucified by the vast majority of the people . Who were happy with the miracles and the loaves and the fishes .But not so happy with the message that came with it and in as much as the message came to the fore the more the people left him. Till it came to the point where he turned to his disciples and said will you also leave me?
and don't forget when Jesus raised Lazerus from the dead some believed but others were "filled with madness and sought ways to kill him"

So while I agree with scripture as to the ministries of God and that God still works miracles .
We should remember also how we are warned about the false apostles and prophets and the great deceptions and to not believe every spirit .

in Christ
gerald

 

[GBzone]

Then I can assume that you reject 1 Corinthians 13:8-10
"Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away."

How can I reject it ? But I answered that in my first reply . as to what then is the perfect has come?

The Lord has not come .The Bride is not yet perfected or ready Though it is high time she was .

You suggested it was the scriptures . That I do not agree with and surely it is either or both the above .

In Christ
gerald

 

[Major]

How can I reject it ? But I answered that in my first reply . as to what then is the perfect has come?

The Lord has not come .The Bride is not yet perfected or ready Though it is high time she was .

You suggested it was the scriptures . That I do not agree with and surely it is either or both the above .

In Christ
gerald

We stand in disagreement Gerald as the grammatical Greek language can not be altered to fit our thinking. It just does not work that way brother.

Prophecy does not mean forecasting or telling the future. The gift of prophecy in its true biblical definition means simply “speaking forth,” or “proclaiming publicly”. In its strictest interpretation it would mean "Teaching".

Since the completion of Scripture, prophecy has not been a means of new revelation, but is limited to proclaiming what has already been revealed in the written Word.

 

[calvin]

I do not think that the "perfect One " in 1 Corth. 13 can be the Bride of Christ. BUT it really does not matter what I think. As I said............
"the perfect is referring to the word of God because in the Greek its in the neutered term meaning not male or female its referring to an object not a person and that OBJECT is God's word and for bills answer the cross reference is James 1:25.

I understand your thinking but the fact is that the grammatical Greek language can not be explained away to allow the Perfect One to be a Person or Persons (Bride of Christ).

Actually trying to follow this thread is giving me a real headache!

'When the perfect comes'............. Consider a sheaf of wheat or any other reaped grain. The cord around it ties together what is above and what is below it and what is within..
So it is with 1 Cor 13:10,............it ties or gathers those points before it and those points that follow. EG. Paul ties together the fact that speaking in tongues will pass with the idea that childishness and immaturity will pass. That is not to say that speaking in tongues is a sign of immaturity of those who do it, but rather it is a sign for an immature Church
It is there in black and white for anyone to read. He is not talking about anything external to us.

 

[Silk]

Actually trying to follow this thread is giving me a real headache!

'When the perfect comes'............. Consider a sheaf of wheat or any other reaped grain. The cord around it ties together what is above and what is below it and what is within..
So it is with 1 Cor 13:10,............it ties or gathers those points before it and those points that follow. EG. Paul ties together the fact that speaking in tongues will pass with the idea that childishness and immaturity will pass. That is not to say that speaking in tongues is a sign of immaturity of those who do it, but rather it is a sign for an immature Church
It is there in black and white for anyone to read. He is not talking about anything external to us.

Erm..not to be fussy but does your sheaf of wheat symbolize the church then? Running before Calvin nails me with a snowball...

 

[calvin]

As to His nature ,character and disposition He Has not changed.

Who do you think it was who was walking in the cool of the evening in the garden "as was his custom"?

Is it not written "the voice of the Lord walked in the cool of the evening "
have you ever considered how a VOICE can walk?
I did and could not find an answer to it .So I stepped back one space and considered ...
what is a voice?
That I did find an answer to.
A voice is a WORD without a body.

Is it not written " a body hast thou prepared for me"
It was the Lord who walked in the cool of the evening who came seeking those who were lost .

It was the Lord they rejected who gave them first a covering of animal sacrifice to give them the covering of an animal skins .It was the Lord who at the same time after gave them a promise .
It was the Lord who by His word cursed the serpent


"Is there no male or female in Christ"?

In Christ
gerald

"Is it not written "the voice of the Lord walked in the cool of the evening " " No it is not!
Gen 3:8. And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. Esv

Gen 3:8. And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. Kjv.
Please note that walking has an entirely different meaning than walked within the context of the passage.
You are trying to say that the voice of the Lord walked, whereas the Text says the sound/voice (ie noise) of (ie. made by) the Lord walking....
Please consider what you are doing with Scripture. Though the rest of your post seems fairly right.
As Spike Milligan of the Goons said. "it's all rather confusing really"

 

[calvin]

I find the whole idea of DNA being good or evil completely unsustainable.
If Adam and Eve's DNA was changed through their rebellion, then it follows that DNA would be changed (back) by obedience. And since the act of rebellion took only a second or so, it should follow that an act of obedience need only last a second or so to completely reverse the DNA change.......No such proof, no such evidence, no such truth.
Have a care...good/bad DNA/genes are used by Satan to make homosexuality, rape, murder, theft and any one of countless irregularities in human behavior completely innocent and unaccountable for. That is Satan at his lying best.
When mankind rebelled against the Lord's authority, our DNA did not change, it was our relationship with the Lord that changed.
Through the Grace and Mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ, our relationship with the Lord will be fully restored at the resurrection, it has in part been restored already, but our DNA remains as it is, and will remain so till our bodily decomposition for we are made from dust and we will return to dust..DNA not exempted.

I believe the revelation of God is complete for the time up to His return with Power and Glory. Even the two witnesses will have nothing new to reveal, only that those who mock them will be toast.

 

[Silk]

I believe the revelation of God is complete for the time up to His return with Power and Glory. Even the two witnesses will have nothing new to reveal, only that those who mock them will be toast.

No argument from me on that.

 

[Silk]

DNA is more complicated. Scripture tells us that eating the fruit caused a fatal change that no amount of "We'll be good now" could change - thus all living things die. They have looked for dna causes for such as homosexuality and have thus far failed. Which leads to the conclusion that no flesh is born that way. But propensities for certain problems have been theorized - like alcoholism runs in families - or witness Angelina Jolie having extreme surgery to avoid cancer. Last I looked - researchers had found that all human beings(male & female) come from ONE female (oh and she wasn't an ape). I dunno but they were working then on the genetics of the male and haven't looked to see where they have gotten to. There are numerous attempts throughout scripture of Satan trying to mess with the patriarchal bloodlines. Do you have any doubt that your dna is a map extending back to your ancestors? Whether we were aware of dna from the beginning or not - the Creator knew of it. And if you look in scripture - you can see it there. There are 254 matches to seed in the KJV with 57 in Genesis alone. There are 205 matches for child and there are (separately from child) 1822 matches for children.
Just saying

PS. don't accept any dna upgrades - mark of the beast

 

[GBzone]

We stand in disagreement Gerald as the grammatical Greek language can not be altered to fit our thinking. It just does not work that way brother.

Prophecy does not mean forecasting or telling the future. The gift of prophecy in its true biblical definition means simply “speaking forth,” or “proclaiming publicly”. In its strictest interpretation it would mean "Teaching".

Since the completion of Scripture, prophecy has not been a means of new revelation, but is limited to proclaiming what has already been revealed in the written Word.

Who said any prophecy should contradict either the body of truth or the Spirit of truth? I certainly did not.
My objection to the word 'prophecy ' in the OP was on scriptural grounds that the seed in question has nothing to do with the DNA of a person. and I gave my reasons for it .Also from scripture .
I do not agree that the GIFTS of prophecy are no longer and you have not given any sufficient biblical argument t to prove otherwise . Though you have asserted that by your understanding of Greek it cannot be so . That in my view is not enough . Nor convincing.
Your assertion that prophecy has nothing to do with foreseeing or foretelling the future is denied by the scriptures which says of those who prophecy and it comes to pass yet seek to turn people away from the living God; they are to be put to death .Let alone those who when it does not come to pass.
What then of the prophetic passages of scripture that speak both of the Lords first coming and his return? To state that it has nothing to do with future events then is not correct .
That John was given a revelation of things past present and future was also 'prophetic' in that he was given to see those things that was hidden .
Prophecy is in the main. history written in advance and if it is truly of the Holy Spirit it is but a little bit of vision if you will or understanding of that which already knows .
But how much is ever taught on the subject let alone on the Holy Spirit save but the sensational and the extreme and the encouragement to 'prophecy ' without any grounding in the Word or some measure of experience or maturity ?

I too do not believe that there will be any new 'revelation ' that goes beyond the scriptures we have been given.,
But I also know and believe that those very scriptures are more an unexplored continent to most and a lot of assumptions are made and conclusions jumped to rather than the truth arrived at by being LED by Him who was promised to lead us into all truth .
Simply because many are encouraged to subject the scriptures to the wisdom and philosphies of men and basically mans intellect .
Rather than subject the mind the imagination and the intellect to the Spirit of God and the scriptures.
For how else can any man be transformed if not by the renewal of our minds by those very self same scriptures?

Thus there is much more to prophecy and indeed to prophets which IS taught in the scriptures but which most seem to but skim the surface of .
which is why there is so much misunderstanding and misuse both of the word and the gift if so be the Holy Spirit from time to time imparts it when and as it si needed .
For the GIFT is the Holy Spirit and though we can 'boast ' we have the Holy Spirit surely it is more important that He has us and it we who needs must be wholy sanctified in MIND BODY and SPIRIT .

Thus my understanding of scripture such as it is does not rest on my knowledge of Greek or Hebrew .For it cannot nor should not be so.
For what profit did that ALONE serve Saul of Tarsus or any of those who despised them who were indeed "unlearned and ignorant " men?
For I must lean more upon Him who was promised to lead us into all truth than upon my own understanding .

For if a man is neither heard or understood unless he gives his breath/life/spirit (as it were) to his words .How much loess is God heard of understood unless the Holy Spirit quickens or makes alive the Letter or the body that ALONE is dead? Or has by itself no life in it.

That is not to say that the WORD of God and the Spirit of God are divided for they are not .
But that men relying solely on their intellect at best or worse "are yet carnal " cannot either hear or understand what is written .For He who inspired "all scripture" is as much needed to understand what was written as he was needed to inspire men to write it according to the mind of God for He alone knows it .
"For what knoweth the things of man save the spirit that is in man ? Likewise then, what knoweth the things of God save the Spirit of God ?"

in Christ

gerald

 

[Major]

Who said any prophecy should contradict either the body of truth or the Spirit of truth? I certainly did not.
My objection to the word 'prophecy ' in the OP was on scriptural grounds that the seed in question has nothing to do with the DNA of a person. and I gave my reasons for it .Also from scripture .
I do not agree that the GIFTS of prophecy are no longer and you have not given any sufficient biblical argument t to prove otherwise . Though you have asserted that by your understanding of Greek it cannot be so . That in my view is not enough . Nor convincing.
Your assertion that prophecy has nothing to do with foreseeing or foretelling the future is denied by the scriptures which says of those who prophecy and it comes to pass yet seek to turn people away from the living God; they are to be put to death .Let alone those who when it does not come to pass.
What then of the prophetic passages of scripture that speak both of the Lords first coming and his return? To state that it has nothing to do with future events then is not correct .
That John was given a revelation of things past present and future was also 'prophetic' in that he was given to see those things that was hidden .
Prophecy is in the main. history written in advance and if it is truly of the Holy Spirit it is but a little bit of vision if you will or understanding of that which already knows .
But how much is ever taught on the subject let alone on the Holy Spirit save but the sensational and the extreme and the encouragement to 'prophecy ' without any grounding in the Word or some measure of experience or maturity ?

I too do not believe that there will be any new 'revelation ' that goes beyond the scriptures we have been given.,
But I also know and believe that those very scriptures are more an unexplored continent to most and a lot of assumptions are made and conclusions jumped to rather than the truth arrived at by being LED by Him who was promised to lead us into all truth .
Simply because many are encouraged to subject the scriptures to the wisdom and philosphies of men and basically mans intellect .
Rather than subject the mind the imagination and the intellect to the Spirit of God and the scriptures.
For how else can any man be transformed if not by the renewal of our minds by those very self same scriptures?

Thus there is much more to prophecy and indeed to prophets which IS taught in the scriptures but which most seem to but skim the surface of .
which is why there is so much misunderstanding and misuse both of the word and the gift if so be the Holy Spirit from time to time imparts it when and as it si needed .
For the GIFT is the Holy Spirit and though we can 'boast ' we have the Holy Spirit surely it is more important that He has us and it we who needs must be wholy sanctified in MIND BODY and SPIRIT .

Thus my understanding of scripture such as it is does not rest on my knowledge of Greek or Hebrew .For it cannot nor should not be so.
For what profit did that ALONE serve Saul of Tarsus or any of those who despised them who were indeed "unlearned and ignorant " men?
For I must lean more upon Him who was promised to lead us into all truth than upon my own understanding .

For if a man is neither heard or understood unless he gives his breath/life/spirit (as it were) to his words .How much loess is God heard of understood unless the Holy Spirit quickens or makes alive the Letter or the body that ALONE is dead? Or has by itself no life in it.

That is not to say that the WORD of God and the Spirit of God are divided for they are not .
But that men relying solely on their intellect at best or worse "are yet carnal " cannot either hear or understand what is written .For He who inspired "all scripture" is as much needed to understand what was written as he was needed to inspire men to write it according to the mind of God for He alone knows it .
"For what knoweth the things of man save the spirit that is in man ? Likewise then, what knoweth the things of God save the Spirit of God ?"

in Christ

gerald

Again.....I guess it is just me, but I am unable to process all of your comments.. You seem to be unable to stay focused on the conversation and wind up all over the place.

Your comment of.........
"Though you have asserted that by your understanding of Greek it cannot be so . That in my view is not enough . Nor convincing."

That my friend is an untenable position. You are making yourself "unteachable" and that is dangereous. You seem to be unable to grasp that the fact that every language has "gramatical" stipulations in it and those things are not able to be be ignored or rejected because we do not like them.

In the English language the "gramatics" stiulate that it is I BEFORE E EXCEPT AFTER C.
That can not be rejected because you do not like it. IT is what it is and not what we want it to be.

May the Lord bless you and I am stepping away from the conversation with you as it is not profitable for you.