Prophecy about DNA: Good and Evil Seed

[Silk]

Not that I want to debate but each man AND woman carry a matrilineal and patrilineal line of all their ancestors. Scripture tells us we all descend from Adam AND Eve. Technically - man carries 1/2 of a seed, woman carries the other 1/2. Without both, there is no multiplying, only unused seed.

 

[GBzone]

*Please note the black type is GBzone*

"I always endeavour to reply or answer any objection to what I have written. My apologies to misquote you ."
And I will try to do the same.

"Adam was CREATED in the image of God .
All that followed were BORN in the image of Adam . and thus we are "shapen in iniquity"
You are saying here that only Adam was created in the image of God and this would be in contradiction to the rest of scripture. And if we all share Adam's genealogy, which scripture says we do then we also are born with that image. All our cells die because of the Fall.

"and why in part the great need and "must be BORNagain"
"not of the corruptible seed which is of the first Adam but of the incoruptable seed which is the Word of God"
My understanding of the need to be born again is to cleanse our soul/spirit of sin so that we may be rejoined with God. These statements of yours sounds suspiciously like you think we can cleanse the flesh which would concur with cleansing DNA. I understand your metaphor of seeds and I have no problem of conforming flesh to the Word. But that has to be done while actually in the corruptible flesh. The born again part is solely part of soul/spirit.

"Thus the DNA if you wish to put it like that of the first Adam is of no good at all and cannot be remedied .
if then you are NOT born again I would argue that a man can be read like a book or God can do so."
Funny, I said the same in post#65 -"It carries information. God created it and I would guess (sarcasm) He can read it." Whether one be born again or not, I'll wager. I'm also guessing that believers get new bodies because the old carry sin genes. One difference - obviously our sin state can be remedied but only in one way - becoming part of the body of Christ. Newsflash: That is why the Gospel was written.

"As I said before when my first born son was born I saw and recognised that he bore my image. He bore my image because he came forth from me and I was his father . If he had not come from me then he would have born the image of his true father .
The image of God was lost or marred when men fell and became subject to sin and death ."
Woe to the son who looks like your wife then or her father. You like this phrase and have used it repeatedly. And you seem to not realize that it is the passing of DNA that causes this. The image of God was imprinted in all man and cannot be "marred" but it can be buried. The "unseen" part of us is His image and everyone of us is gifted with it. And God does not take back His gifts. We can reject it.

"Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost and he being the "express image of the invisible God" came not only to destroy the wolrds of the devil .But to be the second or last Adam .
A second in that he is likened unto the first but that after the first there was no other since or before like the first till Jesus came . The last Adam in that he is likned unto the first but that after Him there are no others ."
Jesus was before Adam and second to none. I agree that Christ came to destroy the Devil but to save the world.

"Thus it is written that "Levi was in the loins of Abraham when he gave tithes to Melchesidech" if then Levi being a Jew was in the loins of Abraham .Then I was in the loins of Adam when he disobeyed God and became subject to sin and death .
if then I was bound by the law IN the first Adam . Then I am free In the last ."
You do realize you are talking about DNA/flesh with Adam? And the body of Christ is spiritual and it is that which sets you free?

"For while by his disobedience I was under the curse IN him.
In Christ I was blessed "IN Him from before the foundations of the world."
If then he who receives Christ " receives Him that sent him " Then I am received by Him for they thyat honour me I will honour.
If then I am born of that incorruptable seed which is the Word of God .Then the image of God is now IN me and thus recognisable by the father as a Son.
For a man is not so much rejected because he has sinned fro have not all sinned?
But God has made it simple and a mans eternal destiny is determined by his acceptance or receiving and honouring of Jesus Christ .
Both as a remedy and remission for sin but also by his resurrection our justification and adoption as sons ."
PLease stop preaching to the choir with rambles

"DNA then has nothing to do with it ."
You did skip the OT. It's all about the breeding of the Patriarchal line to produce Christ. The flesh that was to house God Himself.

"Unless you think that God has DNA? I see nowhere in scripture to suggest such a thing ."
All created beings have DNA. Was God created? No. Does He have cells? I have no idea - do you?
"and while Jesus was BORN of a woman and thus fully man.
He was not of the seed of Adam .
and His blood was not of Mary but of His father . Who is God .
I don't underdstand the hows and wherefores of it .Save that the blood that coursed through his veins was not of Adam and therefore not of the 'life' of Adam But of God .
For "the life is in the blood"
and in that regard eternal life coursed through His veins ."
The scramble of ramble.

I will endeavour to answer each of your objections.

Yet I will and must point out that you have not answered mine as to prophecy or resolved your own understanding of Greek in the light of the scriptures presented to you on the matter . For the record I am of the opinion that your understanding of Greek while in the limited sense of what you have stated I cannot disagree with . But in the light of the scripture I have presented to you then you have severely limited the Greek meaning of the word or your understanding of it is wrong.

"let us make Man in our image " Adam was created out of the dust of the earth and Eve out of the body of the man .
Let us make Man in our image then carries more to it than just Adam for "male and female made he them.
But Adam was the father or head of this generation of which we part. and as I pointed out " If Levi was in the loins of Abraham " being a Jew .Then I was in the loins of Adam.
I draw your attention to the fact two things .
Gen 5:3 " and Adam lived 130 years and begat a son in his own likeness after his image and called his name Seth."
There is a difference between being CREATED in the image of God and being BORN in the image of Adam.
if we are born in sin that is to say as we are of Adams seed then we are of a corruptible seed and subject to sin and death .
What then "shapen in iniquity " if not after the image of Adam?
Rather than of God.
For by nature we are BORN as" children of disobedience " and" children of wrath" That is in Ephesians for while we may now be children of God by reason of our faith in Jesus Christ . Paul says that we were once as all men "children of disobedience" by nature .

You say "I contradict the rest of scripture " but do not even give two examples which ones I contradict .
Where then do I contradict scripture ? For I do not deny that we bare ADAMS nature .and so as we are of Adams seed we are also made subject to sin and death even as he was by reason of his disobedience .
But if then we bare Adams nature and are BORN with it .How then do you say we are BORN with Gods image ?
For in that regard we are born of our father Adam and so bare his image .

To be BORN again is more radical then than cleansing the soul/. I must confess I am confused by your post,
For on the one hand you speak of " your understanding of being born again as the need of cleansing the soul/spirit " and then reproof me for your perception of me that I am saying we can cleanse the flesh which is like cleansing the DNA .
I am saying no such thing .
To be BORN again is to have the OLD MAN DIE .
and that to be BORN again is to be born from HEAVEN not of EARTH .
To be BORN AGAIN is to have this body DEAD because of sin.
but REDEEMED ready to be revealed in a time to come .But in the mean time though it be DEAD is now quickened by the same Spirit that raised up Jesus from the dead which now dwells in us if so be He does .
To be BORN again is to be born not of Adams seed but of the incorruoptable seed which is the Word of God .
to be BORN again is to " be made conformable to the image of Christ daily "
To be BORN again is to translated not only from the kingdom of darkness unto the kingdom of Gods dear Son .But also to be translated from a predestination of one seed to the predestination of another seed.

It is not then " a metaphor of a seed" It is the actual teaching of the scriptures .Firstly in the Genesis and Later by the Lord himself he was teaching about the kingdom of God. In Mathew .

You suppose that the DNA causes the image of your father in you? Even as you suppose that my son looks like me or a new born child can look like his father .neither is true and while I am certain of the former .I cannot yet explain or prove the latter .Save Adam did not look like God . For as you pointed out God has no DNA.

to be cont

 

[GBzone]

Not that I want to debate but each man AND woman carry a matrilineal and patrilineal line of all their ancestors. Scripture tells us we all descend from Adam AND Eve. Technically - man carries 1/2 of a seed, woman carries the other 1/2. Without both, there is no multiplying, only unused seed.

In biblical terms and indeed biological. It is man that has the seed not the woman who has an egg .Which is why we are MAN KIND not another .For every seed brings forth fruit after its own kind.

It is the world that would have it otherwise .

in Christ
gerald

 

[GBzone]

I don't like long wordy posts. They are so very hard to treat with justice unless they are structured very proficiently (which mostly they are not).
Gerald, if you have a problem with Major and you do seem to, why not take the time to address your concerns in a post directed at him?
However, on the matter of prophesy and Greek, let me observe that for the most part, Greek is New Testament and Prophesy in the New Testament is mostly not telling the future, but forth telling scripture.
Prophesy in the Old Testament which is usually Hebrew, is still forth telling of God's word, though often it has an element of future revelation.
I am wondering if you and Major are talking about different things?

I have a problem with the idea that peoples perceived understanding of Greek or Hebrew is supposed to be the end of the matter even if their Greek or Hebrew contradicts Scripture .
My problem then is not with Major but with the false teaching that prevails in a lot of minds .

in Christ
gerald

 

[Silk]

Gen_3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Fancy that! A woman has a seed. And we are also known as humankind. And long before we knew about dna, precisely - we knew that a child could take after in likeness either mother or father. Or the mother's bloodline or father's. If Adam came from dust and Eve came out of his rib, she also came from dust. Adam and Eve became one flesh to produce Cain, Abel, and Seth.

Regarding false teaching, consider the mote in your own eyes.

 

[Silk]

Trifle off topic but female snakes don't need a male snake to have little snakes. http://animals.pawnation.com/snakes-need-mates-lay-egg-10867.html. What I really like about snakes is that they used to have legs. This next link is mankind's theories of how they lost them. They don't use evolution so much because it's kinda like how humans lost their fur -no real evolution benefit there. We who know scripture know better (grin). http://news.discovery.com/animals/zoo-animals/snakes-lost-legs-evolution-110207.htm

 

[calvin]

I have a problem with the idea that peoples perceived understanding of Greek or Hebrew is supposed to be the end of the matter even if their Greek or Hebrew contradicts Scripture .
My problem then is not with Major but with the false teaching that prevails in a lot of minds .

in Christ
gerald

I think most people would see Scripture as the end of the matter. For some/many people, they rely on the Hebrew or Greek to more accurately illuminate Scripture.

 

[GBzone]

Gen_3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Fancy that! A woman has a seed. And we are also known as humankind. And long before we knew about dna, precisely - we knew that a child could take after in likeness either mother or father. Or the mother's bloodline or father's. If Adam came from dust and Eve came out of his rib, she also came from dust. Adam and Eve became one flesh to produce Cain, Abel, and Seth.

Regarding false teaching, consider the mote in your own eyes.

Tell me .Why was Jesus born of a virgin?

Was it not Mary who said "how can these things be seeing that I know not a man "?

Man; that is you and I are born of men and are of Adams seed . Hence we are born in sin and shapen in iniquity . This is so basic I am amazed that you still need to be taught it yet say I am in error .

Why was Jesus born of a virgin ? Because he was NOT born of Adams seed .
That you think that because God spoke of a womans seed must mean that the woman has the seed is or should be self evidently false .
It simply means that God wishing to show that this male child though BORN of a woman would NOT be of Adams seed .
By CREATION women were created from the body of the man .
By birth men are BORN of women .

No we are not of "human kind" That is a recent development of the world that denies God who created MANkind and thus the order and creation of God and pampers to the womens so called lib brigade so as not to offend them.
As to the blood line.
From whence do you get your knowledge and understanding from? God and the Word of God or "so called science"? and the world?

The blood of the child is not determined by the mother but by the father . and the blood of the foetus is not supplied or of the same circulation of the mother .
Unless of course you wish to go down the road of the errors of Rome and think Mary was born by immaculate conception and was therefore born sinless?
But as she offered a sin offering and acknowledged her need of a saviour as well as the need to be filled with the Holy Spirit .As well as by her own geneology as recorded shows she was nothing of the kind and was born in sin and shapen in iniquity as all other men are . Then if her blood mixed with the lords blood in the womb then he too would be tainted with sin.
But as the blood of the child is NOT of the mother but determined by the father then seeing she knew not a man . The blood that coursed through the veins of Jesus was not of Adam but of God .
and seeing that "the life is in the blood " then the life that coursed through his blood was eternal life.
and not of Maries which was mortal .
and albeit she was COUNTED righteous and so could bare the Holy child Jesus she was not the mother of God as ro0me so falsely claims . But the mother of the body of his FLESH .

people need to get more ion line as to what the scriptures teach than what the world teaches.

in Christ
gerald

 

[GBzone]

I think most people would see Scripture as the end of the matter. For some/many people, they rely on the Hebrew or Greek to more accurately illuminate Scripture.

You would think so wouldn't you. But the intellect in, of and by itself is a false light and it si the mind that needs the illumination of the Holy Spirit to accurately understand the scriptures.
For what good did Hebrew do to Saul of Tarsus ? and what illumination and accurate understanding did it give him? and Hebrew was his mother tounge!
Did he understand the scriptures by the illumination of Hebrew? No,not at all.
He so did not understand the scriptures he persecuted the church and agreed with Stephens stoning and thought ti was Gods will!
if then the Hebrew so then the Greek.
For the record .I am NOT saying it is unprofitable to learn Greek and Hebrew .But it is not essential nor does it guarentee a true understanding .
Nor for that matter does an accurate English translation give you an automatic understanding of scripture.
For the same reasons ; if you rely or lean upon your own understanding more than you do upon Him who is promised to lead us into all truth .
For spiritual truths are spiritualy discerned and received .But the carnal mind cannot .

The scriptures are the end of the matter IF a person is being led by the Spirit of truth who then bares witness to the body of truth .
If you take "scripture as the end of the matter" ALONE ;then did not the devil quote scripture to the Lord in the wilderness? Should not then have been the end of the matter?
But clearly it was not . For it was taken out of context with some and in others scripture omitted.
I do not know either the whole Bible or understand it all . But the Holy Spirit does and He knows how it is supposed to be read and understood which is not according to my mind but the mind of God for that was how it was written.
If then scripture is presented out of context ,twisted or not in accordance with the SPIRIT of truth .Then He who bore witness with my spirit that I am a child of of God will and does and can bare witness to the truth as it is spoken or written or otherwise . Though at first I might not know what is wrong He who leads us into all truth does and can if we wait upon Him will come to understand why it si wrong and respond accordingly .
For "we are to walk even as he walked"

in Christ
gerald

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Tell me .Why was Jesus born of a virgin?

Was it not Mary who said "how can these things be seeing that I know not a man "?

Man; that is you and I are born of men and are of Adams seed . Hence we are born in sin and shapen in iniquity . This is so basic I am amazed that you still need to be taught it yet say I am in error .

Why was Jesus born of a virgin ? Because he was NOT born of Adams seed .
That you think that because God spoke of a womans seed must mean that the woman has the seed is or should be self evidently false .
It simply means that God wishing to show that this male child though BORN of a woman would NOT be of Adams seed .
By CREATION women were created from the body of the man .
By birth men are BORN of women .

No we are not of "human kind" That is a recent development of the world that denies God who created MANkind and thus the order and creation of God and pampers to the womens so called lib brigade so as not to offend them.
As to the blood line.
From whence do you get your knowledge and understanding from? God and the Word of God or "so called science"? and the world?

The blood of the child is not determined by the mother but by the father . and the blood of the foetus is not supplied or of the same circulation of the mother .
Unless of course you wish to go down the road of the errors of Rome and think Mary was born by immaculate conception and was therefore born sinless?
But as she offered a sin offering and acknowledged her need of a saviour as well as the need to be filled with the Holy Spirit .As well as by her own geneology as recorded shows she was nothing of the kind and was born in sin and shapen in iniquity as all other men are . Then if her blood mixed with the lords blood in the womb then he too would be tainted with sin.
But as the blood of the child is NOT of the mother but determined by the father then seeing she knew not a man . The blood that coursed through the veins of Jesus was not of Adam but of God .
and seeing that "the life is in the blood " then the life that coursed through his blood was eternal life.
and not of Maries which was mortal .
and albeit she was COUNTED righteous and so could bare the Holy child Jesus she was not the mother of God as ro0me so falsely claims . But the mother of the body of his FLESH .

people need to get more ion line as to what the scriptures teach than what the world teaches.

in Christ
gerald

Gerald, those of us who do hold to the so-called "errors of Rome" believe that Mary was immaculately conceived (meaning free of original sin) still also believed that Christ was still her savior as she was the barer of the savior.

 

[Silk]

Someone says scripture is complete and yet feels prophecy in the form of new revelations continues. Some people say we all bear the sin nature of Adam, men and women, and yet Christ did not have Adam's seed. Basic biology has proven beyond refutation that we all receive genetic material from both our mothers and fathers - this is not refuted by scripture. Asking why Mary was a virgin has nothing to do with this. It was prophesized that she would be. If she hadn't been the prophecy of God would be wrong. And He knew what He was doing - the How & Why of it -Ahead of time. The prophecy that the Messiah would come from the bloodline of David -who's bloodline starts WITH Adam - would also be wrong - according to some. If I were some people, I would check whether it is the Holy Spirit leading them to contradict scripture and be blind to it or their own minds imagining.
Just a woman's point of view who was liberated when she accepted Christ as her Savior.

 

[GBzone]

Gerald, those of us who do hold to the so-called "errors of Rome" believe that Mary was immaculately conceived (meaning free of original sin) still also believed that Christ was still her savior as she was the barer of the savior.

There is no biblical or theological let alone any spiritual evidence for such a claim.

Unless of course you wish to assert that God is a liar when he says "ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God "?

and as only Christ was born with no original sin being NOT of Adams seed .Then you make Mary co equal with Jesus .
and seeing that Jesus was God manifested in the flesh the Word of God made flesh . You then make her co equal with God . and part of the Trinity of God? This is so absurd that one can only subscribe to that' immaculate conception' as a concept that dazzles the imagination but blinds the mind to the truth.

But then Rome counts that she died a virgin as well despite the fact that she had children by Joseph.

But don't worry . As you do not count scripture inspired by God and is good for correction reproof and instruction in righteousness and hold to the claims and assertions of men to be above the Word of God . This will not effect correct or reproof either your false assumptions or Romes teachings.
it is a good and wonderful thing that a man who is reconciled to God through Jesus Christ is not defined by their opposition to error but by their relationship with God .

in Christ
gerald

 

[GBzone]

Someone says scripture is complete and yet feels prophecy in the form of new revelations continues. Some people say we all bear the sin nature of Adam, men and women, and yet Christ did not have Adam's seed. Basic biology has proven beyond refutation that we all receive genetic material from both our mothers and fathers - this is not refuted by scripture. Asking why Mary was a virgin has nothing to do with this. It was prophesized that she would be. If she hadn't been the prophecy of God would be wrong. And He knew what He was doing - the How & Why of it -Ahead of time. The prophecy that the Messiah would come from the bloodline of David -who's bloodline starts WITH Adam - would also be wrong - according to some. If I were some people, I would check whether it is the Holy Spirit leading them to contradict scripture and be blind to it or their own minds imagining.
Just a woman's point of view who was liberated when she accepted Christ as her Savior.

Then I suggest you go back to the teachings of Jesus as to what the kingdom of God is likened to. In Mathew .
and then consider the words he spoke about Himself "as being a seed that falleth into the ground and dies"
Then go back to the very beginning as to the law of the seed that each seed bringeth forth fruit after its own kind .
Then consider that it is by their FRUITS shall ye know them.
Then consider that the serpent has a seed also.

Then having weighed all that up go to the book of Romans and consider whether a Jew after the seed of Abraham or a Gentile after the seed if you will of Adam or one with the law and one without the law is free from sin? and are not both sold unto sin?
Then consider if you are BORN of that corruptible seed which is of the first Adam?
or BORN again of that incorruptible seed which is of the" last Adam." Which is the Word of God.

and then consider what sort of fruit will be manifested by the seed of the serpent and what sort of fruit will be manifested by the Word of God?

It is not some people say we bare the nature of Adam it is the scriptures. Again I suggest you go and read Ephesians where it states by NATURE were all once children of disobedience .Then go to Romans and se e that by "one mans disobedience" there were consequences to ALL as also there are long term consequences "by one mans obedience "
that you do not wish to see the implication of one born of a virgin who KNEW NOT A MAN that Jesus while putting on" the LIKENESS of sinful flesh" did not and was not BORN of sinful flesh or of the seed of MAN .
He was a man and fully man because he was born of a woman and by COUNTED as Joseph's son was then of the of the lineage of David .

Even as we are COUNTED righteous through faith in Him are counted then as sons of God.
The transaction of the one forshadows the transaction of the other .
For though I am not a Jew by seed .I am still through faith in Jesus Christ counted as son of Abraham.

You should get your biology where it is needed from scripture .

For your biology in the light of scripture is wrong . Not by an assertion that you are but because in the end as He is and was in the beginning so now is always right .
and Jesus was NOT born of Adams seed for that would make him born in sin and shapen in iniquity and thus incapable of being the lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world .
By denying that simple fact you have reduced and will if you do not correct your thinking will deny the fact that all are born in sin and shapen in iniquity .For you have already stated or confessed that that truth " is what some PEOPLE say" rather than what scriptures teach.

"some genetic material " is rather vague don't you think?

In Christ
gerald

 

[GBzone]

Gerald, those of us who do hold to the so-called "errors of Rome" believe that Mary was immaculately conceived (meaning free of original sin) still also believed that Christ was still her savior as she was the barer of the savior.[/QUO

"If we say we have no sin , we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" I john 1:8

How then can you say Mary was the barer of Jesus Christ the Saviour who is the truth and therefore was IN Mary yet you claim she had no sin?

"If we say we have not sinned we make him a liar and His Word is not in us" I john 10.

How then do you say Mary was not a sinner or had not sinned yet also claim that your ' Mary ' had the Word of God In her ?

Indeed did not Jesus deny his the mother of his flesh and say in effect that his true mother "............... were they who did the will of God"?

well all those who sat before Him on that day and all those who stand before him today were all conceived in sin and shapen iniquity .
Mary the wife of Joseph and the mother of the flesh of the Lord and the mother of his half brothers and sisters by Joseph is not the 'mary' you speak of .That is one conceived at best in the imagination of the hearts of wicked men .

in Christ
gerald

 

[LysanderShapiro]

There is no biblical or theological let alone any spiritual evidence for such a claim.

Unless of course you wish to assert that God is a liar when he says "ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God "?

and as only Christ was born with no original sin being NOT of Adams seed .Then you make Mary co equal with Jesus .
and seeing that Jesus was God manifested in the flesh the Word of God made flesh . You then make her co equal with God . and part of the Trinity of God? This is so absurd that one can only subscribe to that' immaculate conception' as a concept that dazzles the imagination but blinds the mind to the truth.

But then Rome counts that she died a virgin as well despite the fact that she had children by Joseph.

But don't worry . As you do not count scripture inspired by God and is good for correction reproof and instruction in righteousness and hold to the claims and assertions of men to be above the Word of God . This will not effect correct or reproof either your false assumptions or Romes teachings.
it is a good and wonderful thing that a man who is reconciled to God through Jesus Christ is not defined by their opposition to error but by their relationship with God .

in Christ
gerald

Gerald, with all due respect, you miss so much.

You are more than welcome to discuss in a private conversation, but when I responded, I was only making a short statement, not starting a new, separate debate. In the mean time, smearing others with statements like "Unless of course you wish to assert that God is a liar" is prohibited. Another remark like that is grounds for suspension.

Disagreements are welcomed. Smearing and besmirching others, not at all.

 

[Silk]

There are lights from the sun, stars, and light bulbs. When your carry-on is light, it means it's not heavy. You can have a light shirt on or a dark t-shirt. You can light a fire. An acorn is a seed and in the earth it becomes a tree. From an embryo (seed) a child grows. You can have a seed of an idea. From a mustard seed grows an immense bush. My biology understanding does not contradict scripture. Follow the patriarch line - no child is born without a father and mother. We don't know the process God used in Christ's conception. Speculation is just that. Mary is said to also be of the bloodline of David. Mary as the biological mother, while carrying Christ would have had a placenta that does share with any child she carried. Scripture tells us that Mary's seed (not son) will bruise the serpent's seed. If you want to make the Adversary's seed as metaphorical, I have no problem with that but then that makes Mary's seed metaphorical when we know that her seed was reality.You keep switching the word seed to suit your theory and that's not how scripture works. It doesn't contradict other scripture which your overall statements do. I'm not Catholic but I can more easily buy Mary's sinless state even tho it is not backed by specific scripture - better than I can yours which contradicts. I know stubborn and I know pride because I have been guilty of it myself. It blocks us from learning/understanding.

Peace

 

[Silk]

Mary had flesh and she eventually left this mortal coil. She and Joseph were the result of some amazing breeding program that was exactly what God wanted. Christ has a dual nature else His flesh would not have died on that cross. To be a bridge He had to be not only Son of God but Son of Man. You lose a lot if you deny that.

 

[GBzone]

Gerald, with all due respect, you miss so much.

You are more than welcome to discuss in a private conversation, but when I responded, I was only making a short statement, not starting a new, separate debate. In the mean time, smearing others with statements like "Unless of course you wish to assert that God is a liar" is prohibited. Another remark like that is grounds for suspension.

Disagreements are welcomed. Smearing and besmirching others, not at all.

Presenting an error in public and then seek a private conversation about it is not the way to go about things .
It was no personal attack as you might think but rather the logical conclusion of an argument . The "you" is meant as to the/any reader who is following the argument .
But if the cap fits as to principle then the conclusion would be correct.

For if you claim Mary was born a sinless then as I have pointed out in another post later you deceive yourself . Your or anybody else problem with that is not then with me but with John the beloved and God .
Thus it would be better to have a private conversation with God about it and resolve the issue with the Lord.

in Christ
gerald

 

[GBzone]

Mary had flesh and she eventually left this mortal coil. She and Joseph were the result of some amazing breeding program that was exactly what God wanted. Christ has a dual nature else His flesh would not have died on that cross. To be a bridge He had to be not only Son of God but Son of Man. You lose a lot if you deny that.

Then what you say is that Joseph was the Lords father?
Every man born of a woman HAS to have a father .
If Mary was a virgin how then do you claim Joseph was his father in a breeding programme?
But if you say and agree with scripture she was a virgin who then was the father of our Lord Jesus Christ?

The first Adam would never have died had he not eaten of that tree that was evil to eat and contrary to Gods will.
"Sin entered the world and death through sin" BECAUSE he did so .

The last Adam though also a man and the Son of man could not die. For he was born without sin and did no sin in thought word and deed .
Therefore he was neither subject to sin nor could death overcome him.
In the garden of Eden he told his disciples" to pray lest ye fall into temptation, for the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak"
ALL temptations are designed to get people living in the flesh or acting in the flesh or letting the flesh rule instead of the Spirit .

The pressures of the world the flesh and the devil let alone the weight of the "sin of the world " was bearing upon his flesh . What sayeth the scriptures? "The arm of flesh will fail you" he was therefore dying in the garden for the flesh could not take the pressure of it all .So he prayed that the cup of death would pass from Him .For He knew the scriptures that he was the Lamb of God the Passover lamb that needs must according to the scriptures die on the morrow . Now with "strong cries and tears " says Peter he prayed and in that he was heard he was delivered from death ."so that the scriptures may be fulfilled.
That he might die on the cross according to Gods will and not die in the garden according to the devils will .

Now as he had not sinned he could not die and even as the first Adam would be walking this earth if he had not sinned today . So the last Adam would still be walking around this earth today in the flesh as he was then.
Unless he laid down His life .
Did not the Lord say "no man taketh my life form me ,For I have power to lay it down and power to raise it up"
Thus he died because he laid down his life for a sacrifice for sin because of His great love for the Father and for men and was willing to be rejected both by heaven and by men for our sakes that we through Him might be made acceptable to God .
"For He who knew no sin became sin that we through Him might become the righteousness of God "
"He who was rich became poor that we through Him might become rich through His poverty"
He in whom was life ;died ,that we who were dead in trespasses and sin might have life and life more abundantly .
He who lived in the eternal past came into time that we who lived in time might be with Him in the eternal future.
So while He prayed .The disciples slept. The result was that he conquered and they fled .
"He trod the wine press alone "

Thus because he came under the law to deliver those subject to it and for sin died .
and because " the sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the law " The gates of death and hell could not keep him out .
For while I do not understand the whys and wherefores of it all .It says the devil has "the power of death"
Now there is no power that any has that was not given by God and death is the lawful and just consequence of sin.
Thus gates of death and hell could not prevail against the lord ."Open up ye gates ................" for the King of glory must come in.
But seeing that Jesus had committed no sin and was innocent of any mans blood .Death and hell could not keep Him in.
God being just, could therefore justifiably raise him from the dead. Taking" the keys of death and hell "with Him.
Thus stripping the devil of all power over men who believe the truth.
Death then is no refuge for the wicked . For "if I make my bed in hell you are there"
and there is NO PLACE where the devil can call his own and no pit that God cannot deliver a man from .

Jesus was and is the Son of man because he was BORN of a woman .
Jesus is the Son of GOD because His father was GOD .

in Christ
gerald

 

[Silk]

I DO NOT KNOW THE Process God used in Christ's conception, nor does anyone. In scripture, we are told God is the Father. Do you doubt that God could have used Joseph's seed and cleansed it? Do you doubt that anything is beyond God? All flesh is affected by the Fall. All flesh is the result of mother and father genetic material with the exception of Christ. If you doubt that God spent considerable time (4,000 yrs.?) and attention to the bloodlines to produce the flesh that He would dwell in than you skipped the OT and also what Matthew had to say on topic. I am not privy to God's reasoning but I'm sure it is above our heads for now. Christ had flesh, sinless - on this we agree. His FLESH died on the cross and He was resurrected. He gave His life for us and did so willingly, tho He did not have to. Mary had only the sin of flesh and her flesh died. She may never have broken any Mosaic law before carrying Christ. We aren't told in scripture. She and Joseph were chosen out of all the people ever born to represent Christ as "parents". Joseph as an earthly parent.