In fact.......Glomung & calvin should be sought out for their knowledge and wisdom!!!!
Questions On The Book Of Revelations
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In fact.......Glomung & calvin should be sought out for their knowledge and wisdom!!!!
Yes they have! I gave you several situations in which proved that 70 AD could not possibly have been the return of Christ.
#1......Where is Jesus and you ignored all those points.
May I say to you that IMO you are not seeking knowledge or answers to the Revelation.
There can be no answers to the Revelation without first having a knowledge of the book of Daniel.
The Revelation is the opening of Daniel and without Daniel there is no ability to understand it.
Has is occured to you that you have received some excellant knowledge and wisdom from some of God's brightest people right here in the open for the world to see........yet every time you "question" their ability to inform you of God's Word.
Now, has the thought come to you that just maybe, THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD IS TRYING TO TEACH YOU THE TRUTH YOU SEEK, BUT YOU KEEP REJECTING HIM?????
Listen FOC...........YOU did not find the Preterism theology in the Scriptures!!!! IT IS NOT THERE!!!!
You however listened to a Preterism website which tries to alter the Word of God AFTER they have rejected the Word of God.
The only thing this proves is the ability to copy and paste.
How am I rejecting the Holy Spirit? By having my eyes in the word, seeking and trying to understand the stories and how history is unfolded. I do it so I won't be led astray. That's all.
Major, don't assume I am going to Preterism websites, when in fact I am not. I SAID I am believing that Revelations has already happened, all has been fulfilled, not the whole theology of the Preterism. Please don't take this wrong or as a ignorant statement, just trying to make a point.
In Luke 4:16-21 says:
Jesus Rejected at Nazareth
16So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:18“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,Because He has anointed MeTo preach the gospel to the poor;He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,jTo proclaim liberty to the captivesAnd recovery of sight to the blind,To set at liberty those who are oppressed;19To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”k20Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
So why wouldn't Jesus filfill all the scripture. He just picks and chooses what He wants to fulfill in certain times in History? It doesn't seem that way when I read the Bible.
Also I found something interesting about names last night... The name Jesus is also Joshua. "Yahweh saves". This is why I am researching. The name Joshua is used in Zechariah. Zechariah 3:6-10 The Coming Branch...
The Coming Branch
6Then the Angel of the Lord admonished Joshua, saying, 7“Thus says the Lord of hosts:‘If you will walk in My ways,And if you will keep My command,Then you shall also judge My house,And likewise have charge of My courts;I will give you places to walkAmong these who stand here.8‘Hear, O Joshua, the high priest,You and your companions who sit before you,For they are a wondrous sign;For behold, I am bringing forth My Servant the BRANCH.9For behold, the stoneThat I have laid before Joshua:Upon the stone are seven eyes.Behold, I will engrave its inscription,’Says the Lord of hosts,‘And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.10In that day,’ says the Lord of hosts,‘Everyone will invite his neighborUnder his vine and under his fig tree.’ ”
Major, Have you researches all about Preterism theology? If you did and don't believe it is not there, how did you get to that point? Did you research it and looked for answers yourself? If you did look for answers yourself then why would you try to discourage me? That is like teaching a child don't learn to walk because you have already learned. Let me see it for myself and grow in strength and build my foundation on solid ground...
I am in agreement with you Rusty. I agree that if I knew someone was going down the misunderstood or mixed with clear error, I would say something. The thing is many people have sooooo many interpretations of prophecy, hench the many denominations in this world. There is only one way.
Matthew 7:13-14 says:13“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14Becausea narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
The problem I am having is that everywhere I look is a lie. I have a hard time trusting denominations made by a man's interpretations. There are so many denominations out there and they all claim to be the right one. I don't want to be the one with itching ears, following twisted truth, made up by man. Thinking I can buy G_d's blessing buy giving the ministry money, or buying a book from a man behind the pulpit on his theology.
This is going to take a lot of my time to decipher each book of the Bible. After that I will start fitting the pieces together again. I know the whole Bible is written about Jesus and what has been fulfilled.
This post has gotten a little out of control, which was never my intension. There is so much more that I have been led to see over the years. That is another hot topic that will ruffle feathers also, which I plan to keep to myself right now. I came to a forum to talk in hopes there is someone out there that sees what I have been shown. It seems I am alone in this. So all I need to do meditate on the word and pray about it....
Absolutely correct!
YOU my brother came here asking or rather I think your comment was ......"I am seeking".
NO one here has discouraged you!
All that we have done is to try and show you that the path down which you are going is full of potholes and error and heresy and it will lead to your inability to distinguish truth from lie.
As Rusty has just said........you really have not as of yet addressed the things posted to you and your responces have generally been to the tune of............"Why are you discouraging me"?
In case I missed it, my apologies: but my Bible says Jesus will be coming back in the clouds and ALL will see Him. To my knowledge this has not happened yet in history. Pardon my ignorance; but I guess we either believe the Word of God or we don't.
Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, Luke 21:27, Revelation 1:7
Also, I am pretty sure that Christ is not reigning on this Earth....
Your Brother in Christ
Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, Luke 21:27, Revelation 1:7
Also, I am pretty sure that Christ is not reigning on this Earth....
Your Brother in Christ
AS I see it FoC, you are yourself following a deadly path. I see it I must speak of it.
The Bible text you quote is undoubtedly in support of your comments above it.
OK, so, what I am understanding you to say is that the narrow gate is the correct interpretation of prophesy. That would mean wrong interpretation = destruction. Problem is that you are going to have to live out your life unsure of your salvation because while ever there is prophesy, you might get it wrong. The narrow Gate is faith in Christ as the Son of the Living God.
and if you know and understand this then please do not quote it out of context because it has nothing to do with prophesy as such.
The alarm bells are aclang with this one! You alone are being enlightened by the Holy Spirit? Is that what you are saying?
You may be alone in this because you have wandered miles and miles of track....think about it.
FOC72, I've been following this thread but declined comment because I have looked at the Preterist view and found it untrue so I saw no point in hitting on points already made. But you did say you were searching and that alone is commendable. The bible says to let each man work out his own salvation and I think you know who Christ is and our relationship to Him. That is where our salvation lies. I personally don't think(for whatever it's worth) that your salvation is determined by your belief in Preterist viewpoints. I do think that it is in error though. I do believe you need to pray for discernment and wisdom. Most of us could use more of that ourselves. There are two other forums that you could look into and they have good threads on Preterist beliefs. You will find though, that both of these forums utterly refute Preterism completely and convincingly.
One of the forums is the Berean Council Forum which is active and the other is the PFRS Forum which still up but inactive. If you seek to study your view to completion, then I would certainly visit those two forums. May God bless your endeavor and grant you wisdom and discernment.
One of the forums is the Berean Council Forum which is active and the other is the PFRS Forum which still up but inactive. If you seek to study your view to completion, then I would certainly visit those two forums. May God bless your endeavor and grant you wisdom and discernment.
Calvin,
Maybe I am taking this out of context, but it seems you are talking down to me. Saying what I quoted was a misinterpretation... When in fact I was using the scripture as a reference, meaning there is only one Path, Narrow gate that leds to the Lord, not many roads(as in many denominations). There is one gospel, one Jesus. One way to believe in Him.
Are all of denominations correct? This is why there is strife, and confusion, with misled ways and beliefs. Which is not of G_d. I am using discernment of what is written in scripture. It is no wonder many get discouraged and turn away from G_d because they are lost sheep with wolves leading them to their destruction.
There is only one foundation. This is what I am searching for. I am listening, reading, praying and searching. Will it take time? Yes! It will take many years to understand it all clearly, even through all my sins. Since His grace will save me. When I talk to my wife about what I find or any fellow Christian I tell them don't take my word for it, research things yourself.
So here is my question for you. If a covenant is Fulfilled, what does that mean to you? Why was there times of tribulation in the time of the disciples. Great earthquakes at Jesus death and in scriptures when Paul was in jail. Earthquakes are G_d's anger, judgment, presence and power. It was deliverence of the enemies into his hands. Jesus is the final temple, so there is need for another temple to be built in order to fulfill the prophecies. If one doesn't believe that all has been fulfilled, then one's faith seems empty.
Hebrews 12:25-29
Hear the Heavenly Voice
25See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, 26whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shakeh not only the earth, but also heaven.”i 27Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we mayj serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29For our God is a consuming fire.
Steve, I am not intending to talk down to you. I am concerned by what I read in your posts. As I said, the narrow gate is not having the correct interpretation of prophesy. You are now saying something different. Ok, but now you are saying...suggesting that the many denominations are the wide road implying that there is only one church which is right...if you can ever find it! Steve it is the "i'm right and every one else is wrong" thinking that gives birth to every cult out there.
Mary Baker Eddie, Charles Taze Russel, Joseph Smith, Bob Jones, Ron L Hubbard to name just a few, each of which were alone in being 'right' in the midst of a world full of multidenominational fools all waltzing down that wide road to perdition.
Now I ask you....isn't that saying that Jesus is an inept bungler, who can not even shepherd a decent church?
Yet what does the scriptures tell us? Rev 7:9 tells that there will be a vast number saved...an uncountable number of saved ones. That tells me that when someone speaks of the failure of the Church, they are strangers to the Lord. Jesus told Peter that He was building His Church...a Church that would not fall before the onslaught of hell.
Earthquakes can be as a result of God's wrath, but remember that we live in a fallen world and catastrophe happens.
As for tribulation.. yes there was is and will be tribulation The Bible does not teach that there is only going to ever be one tribulation. It does speak of a particularly intense tribulation to be sure, but there is tribulation all the time...somewhere.
As I said, I'm not intending to talk down to you.
Ask yourself how your world view proclaims the Lordship of Christ... Does it? or does it say that as Lord, He is a rank amateur needing guidance? Sorry Steve, but if you are right and everyone else is wrong, then Jesus has messed up badly.
Pray the Lord will guide you into His truth...even at the possible expense of your truth.
Mary Baker Eddie, Charles Taze Russel, Joseph Smith, Bob Jones, Ron L Hubbard to name just a few, each of which were alone in being 'right' in the midst of a world full of multidenominational fools all waltzing down that wide road to perdition.
Now I ask you....isn't that saying that Jesus is an inept bungler, who can not even shepherd a decent church?
Yet what does the scriptures tell us? Rev 7:9 tells that there will be a vast number saved...an uncountable number of saved ones. That tells me that when someone speaks of the failure of the Church, they are strangers to the Lord. Jesus told Peter that He was building His Church...a Church that would not fall before the onslaught of hell.
Those things...events that you have mentioned do not constitute a covenant. Broadly speaking a covenant is an agreement struck between a King and his subjects. "You pay me taxes and I wont chop your head off" or "If you obey my commands I will Bless you." and so on.
Earthquakes can be as a result of God's wrath, but remember that we live in a fallen world and catastrophe happens.
As for tribulation.. yes there was is and will be tribulation The Bible does not teach that there is only going to ever be one tribulation. It does speak of a particularly intense tribulation to be sure, but there is tribulation all the time...somewhere.
As I said, I'm not intending to talk down to you.
Ask yourself how your world view proclaims the Lordship of Christ... Does it? or does it say that as Lord, He is a rank amateur needing guidance? Sorry Steve, but if you are right and everyone else is wrong, then Jesus has messed up badly.
Pray the Lord will guide you into His truth...even at the possible expense of your truth.
FOC................Listen to what calvin has just said my brother!!! He is correct!!!!
As for different denominations being established because of their interpretation of prophecy, that my friend is simply not correct.
The rise of denominations within the Christian faith can be traced back to the Protestant Reformation, the movement to “reform” the Roman Catholic Church during the 16th century, out of which four major divisions or traditions of Protestantism would emerge: Lutheran, Reformed, Anabaptist, and Anglican. From these four, other denominations grew over the centuries.
The Lutheran denomination was named after Martin Luther and was based on his teachings. The Methodists got their name because their founder, John Wesley, was famous for coming up with “methods” for spiritual growth. Presbyterians are named for their view on church leadership—the Greek word for elder is presbyteros. Baptists got their name because they have always emphasized the importance of baptism. Each denomination has a slightly different doctrine or emphasis from the others, such as the method of baptism; the availability of the Lord’s Supper to all or just to those whose testimonies can be verified by church leaders; the sovereignty of God vs. free will in the matter of salvation; the future of Israel and the church. The point of these divisions is never Christ as Lord and Savior, but rather honest differences of opinion by godly, albeit flawed, people seeking to honor God and retain doctrinal purity according to their consciences and their understanding of His Word.
Denominations today are many and varied. The original “mainline” denominations mentioned above have spawned numerous offshoots such as Assemblies of God, Christian and Missionary Alliance, Nazarenes, Evangelical Free, independent Bible churches, and others. Some denominations emphasize slight doctrinal differences, but more often they simply offer different styles of worship to fit the differing tastes and preferences of Christians. But make no mistake: as believers, we must be of one mind on the essentials of the faith, but beyond that there is great deal of latitude in how Christians should worship in a corporate setting. This latitude is what causes so many different “flavors” of Christianity
Calvin and Major,
Major you listed five people that are cult leader. I think you mean Jim Jones of the Jonestown massacre. All of these leaders where in a secret societies known as freemasonry. This is another subject I want to post on. This is the subject that I didn't want to bring up because it will ruffle feathers so to speak.
Another word for occult is secret.
I am not making a cult or my own religion here. Just following scripture even in my sins.
I am going to use this as a example for Major. Let's say the root and trunk of the tree of all the Christian religion we know today is Catholism (which I believe to be true). If we find evil in this root and tree which leads men to spiritual death. Wouldn't the branches off this tree be corrupt also? From Catholism is the Luthern religion, also King Henry the 8th creating the Church of England, and so on. So my root and foundation I am establishing is based on Jesus. What is written in scriptures. Not a creed or oath devised by men at a council of Nicea.
Also satan was a angel in heaven and knew the scriptures. Satan used scriptures and twisting them and trying to tempt and bribe Jesus.
Luke 4:1-13
Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, [2] where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.
[3] The devil said to him, "If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread."
[4] Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone.'"
[5] The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. [6] And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. [7] So if you worship me, it will all be yours."
[8] Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'"
[9] The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down from here. [10] For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you
to guard you carefully;
[11] they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
[12] Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
[13] When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.
Major you listed five people that are cult leader. I think you mean Jim Jones of the Jonestown massacre. All of these leaders where in a secret societies known as freemasonry. This is another subject I want to post on. This is the subject that I didn't want to bring up because it will ruffle feathers so to speak.
Another word for occult is secret.
I am not making a cult or my own religion here. Just following scripture even in my sins.
I am going to use this as a example for Major. Let's say the root and trunk of the tree of all the Christian religion we know today is Catholism (which I believe to be true). If we find evil in this root and tree which leads men to spiritual death. Wouldn't the branches off this tree be corrupt also? From Catholism is the Luthern religion, also King Henry the 8th creating the Church of England, and so on. So my root and foundation I am establishing is based on Jesus. What is written in scriptures. Not a creed or oath devised by men at a council of Nicea.
Also satan was a angel in heaven and knew the scriptures. Satan used scriptures and twisting them and trying to tempt and bribe Jesus.
Luke 4:1-13
Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, [2] where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.
[3] The devil said to him, "If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread."
[4] Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone.'"
[5] The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. [6] And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. [7] So if you worship me, it will all be yours."
[8] Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'"
[9] The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down from here. [10] For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you
to guard you carefully;
[11] they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
[12] Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
[13] When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.
Glomung
Account Closed
FOC, you need to be a bit more careful about your sources.
Mary Baker Eddie, Charles Taze Russel, L Ron Hubbard, and Jim Jones were not Masons.
Let's say the root and trunk of the tree of all the Christian religion we know today is Catholism (which I believe to be true). If we find evil in this root and tree which leads men to spiritual death. Wouldn't the branches off this tree be corrupt also?
The "root" is Jesus. What "evil" do you find in Catholicism? What doctrines do you find despicable?
Be very careful about judging doctrines that you do not understand.
I would suggest you learn from a Catholic, St. Augustine, he said
“In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.”
Mary Baker Eddie, Charles Taze Russel, L Ron Hubbard, and Jim Jones were not Masons.
Let's say the root and trunk of the tree of all the Christian religion we know today is Catholism (which I believe to be true). If we find evil in this root and tree which leads men to spiritual death. Wouldn't the branches off this tree be corrupt also?
The "root" is Jesus. What "evil" do you find in Catholicism? What doctrines do you find despicable?
Be very careful about judging doctrines that you do not understand.
I would suggest you learn from a Catholic, St. Augustine, he said
“In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.”
Aren't we getting off topic here? Maybe you should start another thread on Masonic Lodge.
Really?????
Let me see......Martin Luther, John Wesley.
I have NO information or knowledge of Martin Luther being a Mason and I just did a goggle seach to refresh my memory and there is nothing at all about him.
It is well know that Martin Luther King Jr, was a Mason so you maybe confused on the name.
I do know for a fact that John Wesley WAS NOT a Mason and preached many sermons condeeming the Masonic Lodge as a cult religion as I have them in one of his books.
As for Jim Jones????? I do not know where that came from my friend. It was not from my post but I do think most everyone knows that he was an A/C, false prophet and lead a cult.
FOC.......I would be interested in knowing about you educational background in Biblical Studies and Theology.
You stated..................
"Let's say the root and trunk of the tree of all the Christian religion we know today is Catholism (which I believe to be true). If we find evil in this root and tree which leads men to spiritual death. Wouldn't the branches off this tree be corrupt also? From Catholism is the Luthern religion".
The driving factors in Luther's work was the desire to have clear teaching for the common questions of the people, such as, “What must a man do to be saved?” and “How shall a sinner be justified before God and attain peace for his troubled conscience?” After a series of meetings in which Luther refused to recant his views, Pope Leo X excommunicated Martin Luther in 1521. Many of the common people and German nobility followed Luther's teaching, and the Lutheran Church began to be organized as a separate body in 1525
I say that because you state some of the most outrageouse comments which simply have to be from your own thinking as I can in no way understand them. Have you heard of the Reformation which was lead by Martin Luther??????
I encourage you to find and read a book named "The Ana-Baptists, Trail of Blood". It will give you the information of the history of Christianity right to the Cross.
Sorry I meant Calvin... He listed 5 cult leaders.
I said catholism is the rooted tree of man made religions. I am rooting myselfnin the truth, the branch, the true vine. That is Jesus.
So to recap. I still believe Revelation has been fulfilled. Have we received any more prophets throughout the 2000 years since the time of Jesus? With signs and wonders? A mouth piece bringing new divine inspirations and a interpreter of the truth?
I believe it is fulfilled. All He promised. Finished.
I believe it is fulfilled. All He promised. Finished.
if its finished, who were the two witnesses? How did the world watch them die? When did the whole world come under single rule under by The Anti-christ? When did Jesus return? When was the 1000 years that JEsus ruled over the earth, where there was no evil or sin, the lion laying with the lamb, no war, no crime, no sin nothing, just peace and love?
Sorry, but it is obvious Revelation has not been fulfilled.
Sorry, but it is obvious Revelation has not been fulfilled.
So because I believe all has been fufilled means I am labeled a preterist?
So because nothing is documented means it hasnt happened? I quoted Flavius Josephus and a roman historian saying things that happened to the temple and that their was fighting in the clouds of the sky. I am sure there are many things in the scripture that cant be proven, but we have faith it happened. So five or six things in Revelation that people have yet to read about or see means it hasnt came to pass or been fulfilled. That is silly.
So because nothing is documented means it hasnt happened? I quoted Flavius Josephus and a roman historian saying things that happened to the temple and that their was fighting in the clouds of the sky. I am sure there are many things in the scripture that cant be proven, but we have faith it happened. So five or six things in Revelation that people have yet to read about or see means it hasnt came to pass or been fulfilled. That is silly.