FoC, would you please explain how you see that the events accompanying the opening of the sixth seal have occurred please?
Just one question is all I ask of you.
Can you do that?
Questions On The Book Of Revelations
- Thread starter followerofchrist72
- Start date
Just one question is all I ask of you.
Can you do that?
[7]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
So do partial preterists believe we are in the times when Satan is let loose to "deceive the nations"? I'm confused.
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
So do partial preterists believe we are in the times when Satan is let loose to "deceive the nations"? I'm confused.
Because it wouldn't make sense if you beleived ALL of revelations has already been completed FOC. That would mean we are living in a world of pure peace or heaven, should I say, and that these verses are correct now:
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
However, they are not! I still cry. I still have pain. I still hate my life and life in sin from time to time. I am still tempted by Satan.
I might completely be misinterpreting what you are saying FOC but if revelations has occurred then the basis of the WHOLE BIBLE IS BOGUS, then what on earth are we doing here? That or are we currently living in hell?? Moreover, if you believe what the bible says, then you know this can't be hell because that is not how it was described.
Something just isn't adding up with partial or full preterism.
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
However, they are not! I still cry. I still have pain. I still hate my life and life in sin from time to time. I am still tempted by Satan.
I might completely be misinterpreting what you are saying FOC but if revelations has occurred then the basis of the WHOLE BIBLE IS BOGUS, then what on earth are we doing here? That or are we currently living in hell?? Moreover, if you believe what the bible says, then you know this can't be hell because that is not how it was described.
Something just isn't adding up with partial or full preterism.
Told ya so!!!!!! Told ya so!!!!
"I STILL BELIEVE REVELATION HAS BEEN FULFILLED.
But in your 1st post you said you were seeking. So you were never wanting to know the real teaching of the Revelation, you simply wanted to expand your agenda of Preterism.
I for one think you would have been better served to be up front from the beginning instead of all the pretense.
You said...............
"Have we received any more prophets throughout the 2000 years since the time of Jesus."
NO! That is because there are NO prophets today because we have the Word of God. Why do you think we need a prophet when the Word of God is available to you.
You asked...........
"A mouth piece bringing new divine inspirations and a interpreter of the truth?"
Again, why do you want a man to tell you what God said. READ what God said.
That is what the BIBLE is for.
Then you said.................
"I believe it is fulfilled. All He promised. Finished."
I feel like I need to say this to you but actually more to those who read these posts but do not respond.
Over the years that the Lord has allowed to to live, I have studied just about every theology that has come along. May I say to all of you that none of those theologies have more insidious implications than does PRETERISM. It is the teaching that Jesus has already come back and we missed it completely. It is actually rooted in what is called REPLACEMENT Theology and that is the teaching that the Church has replaced the nation of Israel.
Preterists, hold that all Bible prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem. THey view that event as the Second Coming of Christ and reject any future return of Christ.
That means they that they have to reject the bodily resurrection of believers. This would also mean that they believe we are NOW in the "NEW HEAVENS and the NEW EARTH".
This view is not only ludicrous but it is also heretical. Please consider what must be accepted if one believes in the Preterism view:
1. The Rapture of the church must be rejected.
2. A literal 7 year Tribulation Peroid, told to us by Jeremiah, Daniel, John and Jesus must be rejected.
3. THe Biblical fact told by Daniel, John, Jesus and Paul of a literal Anti Christ must be rejected.
4. The conversion of the Nation of Israel must be rejected.
5. The Battle of Armageddon must be rejected.
6. The Millennium must be rejected.
7. The binding of Satan for 1000 years must be rejected.
8. The Four horsemen of the Revelation must be rejected.
9. The witness of the 144,000 Jewish virgins must be rejected.
10. The preaching of the two witnesses from the Temple must be rejected.
Now each one of the above things are Biblical facts not my personal opinon. I did not list the Scripture because of the length of this post, but all one has to do is enter the phrase, and goggle it for yourself.
So then, what is the point????? Glad you asked! Preterists insist that they are defending the Bible by making its prophecies fulfilled in the past. That way, they can not be accused of making false assumptions about the future. In other words their interpretive methodology can be called.........."back up and punt"!
By confining predictive prophecy to a past fulfillment they eliminate any real need for escatology study. But, their fallacious reasoning and flimsy logic leaves them supporting a series of ridiculous conclusions that fly in the face of history and Bible interpretation.
Here are several events which the Preterists hold to be factually true:
1. Nero was the Antichrist.
2. The 7 year Tribulation is over. It happened between 63-70 AD when Rome besieged Jerusalem.
3. Christ returned in the clouds to witness the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
4. God has replaced Israel with the Church.
5. Armageddon took place in 70 AD and the fall of Babylon refers to the destruction of Jerusalem.
6. Satan is bound now in the abyss and can not stop the spread of the gospel.
7. Revelation 20 has already taken place.
8. We are now in the Millennium but it is not literal.
9. The 1000 years are not literal but firurative.
I do not really think this will help my friend FOC, since his mind is made up, but I dop hope this will open the eyes of anyone who is considering such a teaching as this one. RUN FROM IT!!!!!
NO my friend. You are CALLED a Preterist because that is what you said you were!!!!
FOC......wow. You did come to this forum using the words seeking and swaying and yet now it appears you have had a set opinion right from the start. Why the deception? If you claim to seek and/or have the truth then why deceive? You cannot claim one then practice the other. Truth begets truth. Deception will only beget more deception. Follow where you started to where you wound up. It is obvious you were disingenuous from the start. Can't you see what you believe is a lie? Why else would it take a lie to present your case? If you were telling the truth then you would've started your thread in truth. Seek truth FOC and practice it.
In the beginning of this post I was swaying because we are taught things in church to believe them as facts concerning the book of revelation. It was a renewing of the mind that showed me that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled in the scriptures. To doubt it happened is doubting Jesus did what He came to do.
I understand all of your concerns. I say what I say in love, and contempt to share the things I have seen in the scriptures. We all will find out the truth one day when our bodies give up it's spirit. All I can do is pray.
I understand all of your concerns. I say what I say in love, and contempt to share the things I have seen in the scriptures. We all will find out the truth one day when our bodies give up it's spirit. All I can do is pray.
So please explain How, When, Where and Why the the events concerning the opening of the sixth seal of the scroll have occurred.
All you can do is pray? Is that it? you can't answer a simple question?
Now then here is an interesting observation about your post......................I wonder............
We are all guilty of typos, missing spelling errors and so on, my
you have said "I say what I say in love, and contempt to share the things I have seen in the scriptures." (emphasis added)
I do not make it a point to be critical, or pick up on typos however this one of yours is possibly revealing of a Freudian slip, yes?
Was your mind dwelling on a contemptuous attitude toward those who disagree with you as you typed out your reply?
It has been my experience that when some one says "I'll pray for you" (except in response to a direct request for prayer of course),........that it is said out of utter contempt for the person who is to be the subject of the threatened prayer.(which in all likelihood never actually eventuates anyway)
What one might expect you to have typed would be something like 'I say what I say in love,
OK, English composition lesson over,
please point out that one unique event in history where the events accompanying the opening of the sixth seal occured.Rev 6:12-17. And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
I believe this will happen.
I believe it has not yet happened.
FoC here is your chance to shine.........point out the chronicled historic occurrence of the above cited prophesy from the book of Revelation, or, admit that all has not yet been fulfilled.
I, and most everyone else will take your failure to respond with facts showing the prophesy has been fulfilled to be an admission that you are wrong to say that all prophesy has been fulfilled.
The answer is between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21...
Calvin,
Why do you critisize me? I am not being this way towards you. In my defense I was at work when I sent it I leave a 4 p.m. and typed it up fast and didn't proof read it. What I was trying to say is: I say what I say in love, and I am held in contempt to share the things I have seen in the scriptures.
So let me see if I can share some things I see in scripture.
Matthew 24:1.2 says:
Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
1Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
(Jesus is obviously talking about the Temple of His generation)
Matthew 24:15-22 says:
The Great Tribulation
15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’c spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), (Which happened when the temple was destroyed) 16“then let those who are in Judea (specific area in Isreal, not world wide) flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.(Sabbath was under the Law) 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:29:31 says:
The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars (stars as in reference to Revelation 1:20) will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:32-35 says:
The Parable of the Fig Tree
32“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So you also, when you see all these things, know that itd is near—at the doors! 34Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Revelation 1:1-3 says:
Introduction and Benediction
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
In the first century many people that proclaimed Jesus were killed in many ways. Beheaded, fed to lions, crucified, stoned to death, skinned, and so on. It is historical fact of tribulation.
Why do you critisize me? I am not being this way towards you. In my defense I was at work when I sent it I leave a 4 p.m. and typed it up fast and didn't proof read it. What I was trying to say is: I say what I say in love, and I am held in contempt to share the things I have seen in the scriptures.
So let me see if I can share some things I see in scripture.
Matthew 24:1.2 says:
Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
1Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
(Jesus is obviously talking about the Temple of His generation)
Matthew 24:15-22 says:
The Great Tribulation
15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’c spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), (Which happened when the temple was destroyed) 16“then let those who are in Judea (specific area in Isreal, not world wide) flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.(Sabbath was under the Law) 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:29:31 says:
The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars (stars as in reference to Revelation 1:20) will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:32-35 says:
The Parable of the Fig Tree
32“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So you also, when you see all these things, know that itd is near—at the doors! 34Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Revelation 1:1-3 says:
Introduction and Benediction
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
In the first century many people that proclaimed Jesus were killed in many ways. Beheaded, fed to lions, crucified, stoned to death, skinned, and so on. It is historical fact of tribulation.
Calvin,
Why do you critisize me? I am not being this way towards you. In my defense I was at work when I sent it I leave a 4 p.m. and typed it up fast and didn't proof read it. What I was trying to say is: I say what I say in love, and I am held in contempt to share the things I have seen in the scriptures.
So let me see if I can share some things I see in scripture.
Matthew 24:1.2 says:
Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
1Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
(Jesus is obviously talking about the Temple of His generation)
Matthew 24:15-22 says:
The Great Tribulation
15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’c spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), (Which happened when the temple was destroyed) 16“then let those who are in Judea (specific area in Isreal, not world wide) flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.(Sabbath was under the Law) 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:29:31 says:
The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars (stars as in reference to Revelation 1:20) will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:32-35 says:
The Parable of the Fig Tree
32“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So you also, when you see all these things, know that itd is near—at the doors! 34Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Revelation 1:1-3 says:
Introduction and Benediction
Why do you critisize me? I am not being this way towards you. In my defense I was at work when I sent it I leave a 4 p.m. and typed it up fast and didn't proof read it. What I was trying to say is: I say what I say in love, and I am held in contempt to share the things I have seen in the scriptures.
So let me see if I can share some things I see in scripture.
Matthew 24:1.2 says:
Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
1Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
(Jesus is obviously talking about the Temple of His generation)
Matthew 24:15-22 says:
The Great Tribulation
15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’c spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), (Which happened when the temple was destroyed) 16“then let those who are in Judea (specific area in Isreal, not world wide) flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.(Sabbath was under the Law) 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:29:31 says:
The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars (stars as in reference to Revelation 1:20) will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:32-35 says:
The Parable of the Fig Tree
32“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So you also, when you see all these things, know that itd is near—at the doors! 34Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Revelation 1:1-3 says:
Introduction and Benediction
It appears to me you are using 'time' to justify your thesis; whereas "time" was created for man's benefit and God is not restricted by it since He created it. (Christ in the Garden of Eden, Christ with many generations of the Hebrews, Christ walking in human form, John viewing the future while in spirit in Heaven seeing Christ) "before Abraham, I am." My point is as stated earlier: if Jesus had come back in the clouds, I think it would have been well documented in history...and oh yeah...we wouldn't be living in a world about to be handed over to Satan for a short reign.
I am sticking with what my Bible says. It seems like there is an attempt to humanize God and box Him into our constraints.
I am sticking with what my Bible says. It seems like there is an attempt to humanize God and box Him into our constraints.
I could have picnic here, but the situation is serious. Let me just say that 1. what you have now posted is not at all similar to your original post. Be fare.... in a similar situation, could you decode your original post and come up with version 2?
2nd....If you can not take the care necessary to convey your true thoughts, why would you not be thought to be contemptuous of your readers. Wait till you get home, kiss your wife, cuddle the harmonics and then compose your posts.
Try holding a Christian Bible Study in Saudi Arabia or Kuate today. If you really want to get skinned alive, invite the ruling classes there to a communion service or an Easter service.
I'm told that will earn you at least 20,000 demerit points over there.
You still have not addressed the issue of Rev 6:12-17. I guess I'm starting to seem like a broken gramophone, but the question has been asked with civility and I look forward to your reply.
Til then I am of the understanding that you acknowledge that you have been wrong in saying that the prophesies of Revelation has been fulfilled.
Actually, probably not exactly His generation. When was that particular Temple built? Was it not long before Jesus (Mary's son) was born?
The destruction of that Temple in AD 70,..... can we be sure that Jesus' contemporaries also born around 4-6 BC would have lived to 70AD? that is to about 75 years of age? It is probably not sound thinking to talk of generation in this way especially with what follows.
There is much speculation about the identification of the abomination that makes desolate.
But I note with interest that you have indicated that this prophesy is specific to an area in Israel. Yet, V22 is clear that the tribulation has the potential to impact on the whole of life (animal) word wide, no thought of localized tribulation here.
Rather than a reference to Rev 1:20. don't you think Revelation Chapter 12 might fit better? When Jesus gave this teaching, the revelation given to John was many years off.....who could have understood that anything as specific as the angels of the seven (yet to come into being) Churches could have been meant?......Think about it. Not saying Rev 12:- is it, just posing an alternative for you to ponder.
Yes.."this generation" What exactly does Jesus mean by "this Generation"?
Is He talking about people in their fifties-sixties with probably only a few years of life left"?
Was he talking of the generation of "newly bornes"? the trouble with not thinking things through fully is that there are too many holes to try to plug up. That is what trips up the heretics and the cult leaders.
Guess what!! The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, Revelation was written about 90 AD a good 20 years later.
That alone means that Prophesy was not fully fulfilled with the destruction of the Temple. Can you see that?
As for the things that must shortly take place, well apart from the fact that the Lord is not bound up in time like we are, since He has had everything planned from before the creation, what's a few thousand years here or there?
OK, now I have addressed your points, howbout answering my question on Rev Ch 6 and the sixth seal? Huh?
Sorry to get in the middle of this but can someone please respond to my posts either by PMing me or on here? I'm confused and want to make sure I'm interpreting everything correctly in case I come across this in the future. Thanks!
Your two posts specifically addressed FoC. That is maybe why they have been ignored.
But I'm happy to 'butt in'........... I'm good at that
.Preterism is basically an attempt to brush aside the truth of Jesus' words when He said that know one not even He knows when the end will occur.Matt 24:36,37,38,39. “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. 37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
As for partial preterism, can you make an omelet without an egg? Either preterism is preterism or it is something else.
This is an introductory from a preterist web site "Is the End of the World near? Are we living in the Last Days? Is Christ's return at hand? For 150 years here in America we have constantly been told we were living on the threshold of the end of the world and Christ's return. Prediction after prediction has failed to materialize, and false hope after false hope has been foisted upon the Christian community. Many Christians have been disillusioned, and are already looking for more reasonable explanations. Some have been so disillusioned they left the faith altogether. And the secular media (who are always looking for an excuse) are further discrediting Christianity because of it. Something is terribly wrong with traditional views of Bible Prophecy. There is a serious need to re-examine the whole issue of Last Things."
from http://www.preterist.org/whatispreterism.asp
Thus is laid out the foundations for a cult practice.
I tried early in this thread to point FoC in the right direction in studying the Book of Revelation, I'll repeat it now.
The key to understanding the Book of Revelation is found in the very opening verses Rev 1:1,2. That is it!
It is a revealing of Jesus Christ! It contains many things....instructions, warnings, apocalyptic imagery.
The purpose of the Book is not prophesy......the purpose is clearly stated in those two opening verses. 'BUT' some will say 'it talks of the things which must shortly occur..that makes it prophesy'. And as a side issue that is true, but it is firstly and lastly a revealing of Jesus Christ.
It discloses to us that He is inseparably involved it the future of this world, and for us.....more importantly....our eternal future.
Revelation is not and never was a revealing of the end of the world. If it was, we would know with more certainty how our future is to unfold, who the antiChrist is and so on.
We know that the beast is coming, but not when nor what colour ribbons it will wear.
We know that there will be a resurrection of the saints, separated by an interval and then there will be a last and final resurrection where any stragglers will be taken in and the rest will go to destruction.
One very important thing we are told is that even in the face of catastrophe mankind will not repent of sin and turn to Jesus for salvation.
That is a theme that comes through several times. We can see this happening now...today as we read the news. America has strife enough to spare, but still, secular America continues on the path of unrighteousness.
Australia, (the country lucky enough to host me,
) has/is going through a period of flooding and wild bush fires. But I'm not hearing a national call to repentance..........not likely with an atheist PM
Now take note that I am not trying to tie any of these catastrophes into any kind of timeline of Revelation. I'm merely saying that catastrophic events that should tend to turn people to ask if they are right with God are just passed off as global warming or climate change or something we are causing and can control if we pull together......us against God....what foolishness!
It is this foolhardy approach that is listed in Revelation, the Lord's long suffering patience that is chronicled there, not the individual events that should turn a wayward people back to God we need to understand
If you will comfort yourself with the knowledge that Revelation is not a calendar, but a Revelation of Jesus Christ, you will understand a lot more than those who live in fear of the antiChrist jumping out of their refrigerators and gobbling them up.
If you will comfort yourself with the knowledge that at the appointed time Jesus will come to take you...you personally to be with Him for the rest of eternity, because He knows you are worth it, and nothing, but nothing can spoil His plans, you will be understanding the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
End of rant.
I really do not think that anything put forward here to FOC is going to permitt him to accept it. He has already made up his mind to believe the Preterist view.
Every single thing he has questioned has been answered and he really has not answered anything placed before him.
I am still here... I have been putting everything I posted on here to Word. I would say 13 pages is a lot to write about. I don't have all the answers. I am still seeking them. I do know that dates in history are NOT accurate. Today we believe that our calendar has always been when in fact it wasn't.
Here is what I mean...
The history of calendars spans several thousand years. In many early civilizations, calendar systems were developed. For example, in Sumer, the birthplace of the modern sexagesimal system, there were 12 months of 29 or 30 days apiece, much like the modern Gregorian calendar. Mesoamerican cultures also developed their own intricate calendars; the ancient Maya had two separate years—the 260-day Sacred Round, and the 365-day Vague Year. Classical Greek and Roman cultures also developed calendars; the ancient Athenians, for one, had a lunisolar calendar that lasted 364 days, with an intercalarymonth added every other year. The Romans used two different year lengths; the older one had 304 days divided into 10 months; the newer 365 days divided into 12 months; very much like the modern calendar. They counted years from the founding of Rome, or, sometimes, from the reign of the current consul.
If this is a fact then the Book of Revelation and the dates are inaccurate, it could easliy put John's writing much earlier. Same goes for people in history. Things weren't documented daily like they are today.
That is why I question things so much and run from organized religion theologies and doctines. What I am doing is for my own gain into knowledge and understanding. It has nothing to do with my salvation. I believe Jesus died for our sins. All I am trying to do is put the puzzle pieces together. Am I claiming I am right in what I see? No... Do I believe in what I see. Yes. As we learn we grow in knowledge and understanding. Could my views change? Yes.
So why do I get beatin down for doing what I do. I am a deep thinker and that is my job daily. Figuring out how things work.
I have the fruits of the spirit. You only know me by little things I said in this post and judge me, mock me, and sound like a kid saying I told you so...
So with all respect towards everyone who posted. If I didn't answer is because I dont know, lack of time because I have a life to attend too also, I work, cook dinner and clean.
We are adults here and can agree to disagree, right. We are to seek always the Lord. I keep him first in my life above anyone or anyhing. I fearvHim like I do mybown Dad who is 77. Why because I respect my dad and look up to Him. Same goes for G_d the Father and Jesus His only begotten Son.
In closing I would say. Treat me like you would want to be treated.
Here is what I mean...
The history of calendars spans several thousand years. In many early civilizations, calendar systems were developed. For example, in Sumer, the birthplace of the modern sexagesimal system, there were 12 months of 29 or 30 days apiece, much like the modern Gregorian calendar. Mesoamerican cultures also developed their own intricate calendars; the ancient Maya had two separate years—the 260-day Sacred Round, and the 365-day Vague Year. Classical Greek and Roman cultures also developed calendars; the ancient Athenians, for one, had a lunisolar calendar that lasted 364 days, with an intercalarymonth added every other year. The Romans used two different year lengths; the older one had 304 days divided into 10 months; the newer 365 days divided into 12 months; very much like the modern calendar. They counted years from the founding of Rome, or, sometimes, from the reign of the current consul.
If this is a fact then the Book of Revelation and the dates are inaccurate, it could easliy put John's writing much earlier. Same goes for people in history. Things weren't documented daily like they are today.
That is why I question things so much and run from organized religion theologies and doctines. What I am doing is for my own gain into knowledge and understanding. It has nothing to do with my salvation. I believe Jesus died for our sins. All I am trying to do is put the puzzle pieces together. Am I claiming I am right in what I see? No... Do I believe in what I see. Yes. As we learn we grow in knowledge and understanding. Could my views change? Yes.
So why do I get beatin down for doing what I do. I am a deep thinker and that is my job daily. Figuring out how things work.
I have the fruits of the spirit. You only know me by little things I said in this post and judge me, mock me, and sound like a kid saying I told you so...
So with all respect towards everyone who posted. If I didn't answer is because I dont know, lack of time because I have a life to attend too also, I work, cook dinner and clean.
We are adults here and can agree to disagree, right. We are to seek always the Lord. I keep him first in my life above anyone or anyhing. I fearvHim like I do mybown Dad who is 77. Why because I respect my dad and look up to Him. Same goes for G_d the Father and Jesus His only begotten Son.
In closing I would say. Treat me like you would want to be treated.
I am still here... I have been putting everything I posted on here to Word. I would say 13 pages is a lot to write about. I don't have all the answers. I am still seeking them. I do know that dates in history are NOT accurate. Today we believe that our calendar has always been when in fact it wasn't.
Here is what I mean...
The history of calendars spans several thousand years. In many early civilizations, calendar systems were developed. For example, in Sumer, the birthplace of the modern sexagesimal system, there were 12 months of 29 or 30 days apiece, much like the modern Gregorian calendar. Mesoamerican cultures also developed their own intricate calendars; the ancient Maya had two separate years—the 260-day Sacred Round, and the 365-day Vague Year. Classical Greek and Roman cultures also developed calendars; the ancient Athenians, for one, had a lunisolar calendar that lasted 364 days, with an intercalarymonth added every other year. The Romans used two different year lengths; the older one had 304 days divided into 10 months; the newer 365 days divided into 12 months; very much like the modern calendar. They counted years from the founding of Rome, or, sometimes, from the reign of the current consul.
If this is a fact then the Book of Revelation and the dates are inaccurate, it could easliy put John's writing much earlier. Same goes for people in history. Things weren't documented daily like they are today.
That is why I question things so much and run from organized religion theologies and doctines. What I am doing is for my own gain into knowledge and understanding. It has nothing to do with my salvation. I believe Jesus died for our sins. All I am trying to do is put the puzzle pieces together. Am I claiming I am right in what I see? No... Do I believe in what I see. Yes. As we learn we grow in knowledge and understanding. Could my views change? Yes.
So why do I get beatin down for doing what I do. I am a deep thinker and that is my job daily. Figuring out how things work.
I have the fruits of the spirit. You only know me by little things I said in this post and judge me, mock me, and sound like a kid saying I told you so...
So with all respect towards everyone who posted. If I didn't answer is because I dont know, lack of time because I have a life to attend too also, I work, cook dinner and clean.
We are adults here and can agree to disagree, right. We are to seek always the Lord. I keep him first in my life above anyone or anyhing. I fearvHim like I do mybown Dad who is 77. Why because I respect my dad and look up to Him. Same goes for G_d the Father and Jesus His only begotten Son.
In closing I would say. Treat me like you would want to be treated.
Here is what I mean...
The history of calendars spans several thousand years. In many early civilizations, calendar systems were developed. For example, in Sumer, the birthplace of the modern sexagesimal system, there were 12 months of 29 or 30 days apiece, much like the modern Gregorian calendar. Mesoamerican cultures also developed their own intricate calendars; the ancient Maya had two separate years—the 260-day Sacred Round, and the 365-day Vague Year. Classical Greek and Roman cultures also developed calendars; the ancient Athenians, for one, had a lunisolar calendar that lasted 364 days, with an intercalarymonth added every other year. The Romans used two different year lengths; the older one had 304 days divided into 10 months; the newer 365 days divided into 12 months; very much like the modern calendar. They counted years from the founding of Rome, or, sometimes, from the reign of the current consul.
If this is a fact then the Book of Revelation and the dates are inaccurate, it could easliy put John's writing much earlier. Same goes for people in history. Things weren't documented daily like they are today.
That is why I question things so much and run from organized religion theologies and doctines. What I am doing is for my own gain into knowledge and understanding. It has nothing to do with my salvation. I believe Jesus died for our sins. All I am trying to do is put the puzzle pieces together. Am I claiming I am right in what I see? No... Do I believe in what I see. Yes. As we learn we grow in knowledge and understanding. Could my views change? Yes.
So why do I get beatin down for doing what I do. I am a deep thinker and that is my job daily. Figuring out how things work.
I have the fruits of the spirit. You only know me by little things I said in this post and judge me, mock me, and sound like a kid saying I told you so...
So with all respect towards everyone who posted. If I didn't answer is because I dont know, lack of time because I have a life to attend too also, I work, cook dinner and clean.
We are adults here and can agree to disagree, right. We are to seek always the Lord. I keep him first in my life above anyone or anyhing. I fearvHim like I do mybown Dad who is 77. Why because I respect my dad and look up to Him. Same goes for G_d the Father and Jesus His only begotten Son.
In closing I would say. Treat me like you would want to be treated.