Questions On The Book Of Revelations

Lifeasweknowit said:
Thank you Calvin...unfortunately, I am still confused. It has been quite a while since I have read the book of revelations and since I am actually in the middle of reading the entire bible, I don't want to skip to the end.

My main question is, how exactly do preterists view the end times then? According to my second post after my original question, if revelations were fulfilled that would mean we are living in paradise right? I still think I am missing something and no one seems to be hitting that point from what I am reading.
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Yes. Preterists do say that all has been fulfilled. This would mean that Jesus has returned and that we are living in a renewed Earth. Just read FoC's latest contribution. There is not much else to be said..........he has laid out a framework filled with confusing ideas.
Now, evaluate that... guided by the Apostle Paul's words to Timothy.
2 Tim 2:15,16,17,18,19. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. 19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
Jesus has not yet returned.
Satan is not yet bound.
Even 'Blind Freddie' can see that Godlessness and sin is permeating this entire planet. This is clearly not paradise (which BTW means 'Garden of God').
Ask yourself....If we are living on a new Earth, how come people are digging up relics from the old Earth?

But better yet, consider the faithful inspired word of God given us by Peter.
2 Pet 3:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. My clip board has gone AWOL. so I can't copy paste text just now:(.

As to your last question, You'd best ask a Preterist....but really I sense that you would be better served by just studying the Bible and strengthening your faith. In that way you will be amply equipped to refute error no matter what shoes it wears.
In the end, it doesn't really matter what Preterists say, it is what the Word of God says.

Lifeasweknowit, we are called to be Christians...to be followers of Christ Jesus.

We are not called to be followers of preterists or futurists or pretribulationist or amillenialists, post tribulationists..........just followers of Christ.
 
@Calvin and everyone~I am not try to follow a preterist; I am a follower of Christ. I am attempting to understand things, that's all. I do not share FOCs standpoint whatsoever. I was simply confused because I don't understand how someone can believe something so illogical. It then makes me question my logic and understanding of the subject. Everyone is going back and forth and I think the main point is that we are not living in a kingdom the way it is described in the bible. Therefore, the preterist belief would simply go against what the bible is saying. I think that is pretty much what all of you have been saying, and then some. FOC still has his opinion, which is fine. Can't beat a dead horse.
 
Lifeasweknowit said:
@Calvin and everyone~I am not try to follow a preterist; I am a follower of Christ. I am attempting to understand things, that's all. I do not share FOCs standpoint whatsoever. I was simply confused because I don't understand how someone can believe something so illogical. It then makes me question my logic and understanding of the subject. Everyone is going back and forth and I think the main point is that we are not living in a kingdom the way it is described in the bible. Therefore, the preterist belief would simply go against what the bible is saying. I think that is pretty much what all of you have been saying, and then some. FOC still has his opinion, which is fine. Can't beat a dead horse.
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I'm sorry that you seem to have misunderstood my comments. I would never have suspected that you were leaning that way at all.
My comments to you have only ever been meant as an encouragement...:(Oh well...back to the proverbial drawing board.
One thing that I have noticed....going back to my Christian youth, is that whenever these subjects are discussed the discussion usually degenerates into abusive argument. Not saying that my halo isn't a bit tarnished, just making a general observation. I would do what I can to shield you from and steer you away from a situation that you might take hurt from.
 
@Calvin; thank you~, it did come off a little bit that way initially, but thank you for explaining :) I definitely want the Truth, and I know that I'm a beginner in a lot of ways, but sometimes it's a little time consuming and frustrating to do all of that research on my own when I don't even know where to start, you now? It just became a little bit more frustrating when I saw that everyone was trying to beat a dead horse and I'm just trying to learn. I'm glad you understand :)
 
Lifeasweknowit said:
http://preteristvoice.org/whenwedie.html

This is something I found because I was not getting a direct answer from anyone on here, including FOC.
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That troubles me!!!

With all that has been posted here I would think that you would be able to see that the advice given is Scriptural by those who have posted it.

Let me therefore be clear........PRETERISM is NOT Biblical in any way whatsoever. It stems from "replacement theology" which is also un-Biblical and at its root seeks to teach that the Church has replaced the Nation of Israel in end time events.
 
Please calm down and stop assuming I am following his beliefs. I asked what preterists believe happened when we die and when I didn't get a clear cut answer from anyone, including FOC, I went to look it up myself and posted it in here to get a confirmation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with me doing research about different theologies and believe systems. I believe what I believe; I do not follow the preterist belief. It is an insult to me that you would insinuate that or to tell me that by me doing research worries you. I can't grow closer to the Lord if I don't do my research. I come on this site to gain knowledge from other people, not to be reprimanded because I'm seeking knowledge. I am hurt by your comment. My apologies if I misinterpreting what you are saying. I am getting tired of all the yelling that is going on this site. This is supposed to be a friendly Christian website can't we all just haveca warm heart towards each other?
 
"With all that has been posted here I would think that you would be able to see that the advice given is Scriptural by those who have posted it."

One last thing, Major. I already mentioned that it was very confusing for me, and therefore I need a direct answers. I never said that you all were not providing scriptual evidence. If you read my post my previous post you will see that. I feel that you're being very judgemental and incorrectly so. Again, this isn't anger, but hurt and confusion due to you misinterpreting my questions and comments.
 
Hello everybody. Lifeasweknowit I find your search for God most wonderful. You will find him. Keep being tough, yet don't be tough without love (following one of Jesus' most important commands, to love one another and be known by this love). I think that I have written many posts that could help you, but where they are and what they are is hard for me to say (which forum or their suitable content relating to your interests?). Why not just examine my recent posts here at this forum which I recently join? I hope that I have not already been too-long winded in this forum like I have in others. I am here for fellowship and lifting each other up, in finding our way to our Father through Jesus Christ.

A portion of my relatives (my youngest sister's entire immediate family and relatives & children there of) are JWs. So, it is easy for me to understand some of the things that you may have to deal with. I don't know of any of them that have left the Jehovah Witnesses or will, though I had conversed with them about my faith for awhile, several years back. I have matured since then as a Christian. I can be a great friend of yours and anyone else here in this forum. I am your brother in Christ. Please do read my few posts here, for they may help you in some of your searching, yet I will be try my best to clarify anything that you want me to. I hope that your search will be as successful as mine has been. Mine started when my ex. left me for another guy back in 2001. I have found that I love fellowship with other Christians, especially those truly seeking their Father in Heaven and obeying & following Jesus Christ, his son. We need each other in our walk towards Him. I am here for you and for everyone.

By the way, I don't mind writing, even long post for others in just having fellowship or trying to answer questions or just being friends. I want to be a writer in the near future during my coming retirement years. To practice writing is important for this career change and for my faith. Have a most wonderful day. I must say that I admire your striving and thirst for God. I find much quenching of my thirst through the New Testament and asking God those impossible questions that don't seem to have an answer. I now tell everyone to knock for I have found that he does answer.

PS: For everyone here, I will try my best to not step-on other Christians' toes. Fellowship is warm and friendly, uplifting and encouraging, inspiring and helping, thinking more for others than for yourself. Needless to say, it has no room for attacks or condescension.

must go, family is calling. love to all
 
Lifeasweknowit said:
Ok. FOC, what is your belief on what happens when we die? Straight forward answer please.
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What happens when we die. If we have a pure heart and walk according to Jesus teachings we go to heaven and are transformed. The corrupt body dies and we will be transformed into a incorruptable one in heaven. I never claimed to be perfect, neither did Paul. Peter denied Jesus three times and He still went to be with the Lord and do His work. Doubting Thomas didn't believe until he saw Jesus after His death. Will we ever be perfect on earth? No. He knows we strive and struggle against flesh and blood, just as the disciples and apostles did. Look at Mary Magdelene who was a prostitute. She was forgiven because He knew her heart.

Love the Lord and believe in Him always, even through your temptations and failures. Pray for guideance and understanding and wisdom.

See I rejoice when I am picked apart like I am in here, or anywhere else I talk about what I believe. I am not discouraged by the threats or accusations agianst me. My foundation is in the Lord, so no matter what comes against me I will not move. For the truth set me free...
 
I'm sorry for lashing out the way I did and becoming defensive. I responded to Major immediately without allowing myself to calm down and that was my mistake. I hope I didn't offend anyone...A lot of that hurt came from when I was a JW. Towards the end of my times as a JW, I had a lady that would go off on me for minor things (including my mother). This was one of the reasons I turned away from religion entirely for several years. I've always felt that Christians judge and that I was being judged. Obviously as I've gotten older, I see that either it doesn't matter if one judges (all that matters is your relationship with Him), or it's my deep-rooted issues that make it a bigger deal than it is. Anyhow, I hope you all understand.

FOC, thank you for answering my question.
 
followerofchrist72 said:
I know churches teach that the book of Revelation has yet to be fulfilled. I seem to be swaying more that parts of it already happened in 70 A.D. I read the accounts of Josephus which point to more of tribulation within Israel and the lands surrounding it fulfill John's writings.

I wanted other input of fellow Christians. Why they believe it is yet to come, or still needs to be finished.
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Hi FOC/Steve, just want to clairfy what some have already said. I think the "upset", so to speak with everyone here, has come from your original post above to you post later on stating: "So to recap. I still believe Revelation has been fulfilled. Have we received any more prophets throughout the 2000 years since the time of Jesus? With signs and wonders? A mouth piece bringing new divine inspirations and a interpreter of the truth?

I believe it is fulfilled. All He promised. Finished."

When Calvin stated "...that you are a preterist advocate interested in promoting preterism, not any sort of seeker any long when it comes to prophecy." you then stated:

"In the beginning of this post I was swaying because we are taught things in church to believe them as facts concerning the book of revelation. It was a renewing of the mind that showed me that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled in the scriptures. To doubt it happened is doubting Jesus did what He came to do.

I understand all of your concerns. I say what I say in love, and contempt to share the things I have seen in the scriptures. We all will find out the truth one day when our bodies give up it's spirit. All I can do is pray."

Can you please explain to me what you mean by "renewing of the mind?" How did you come to this conclusion during the multiple discussions, scriptural evidence and explanations from everyone on here? If anything, I see that it would have opened your eyes to the falseness of preterism, not solidify your belief in it.

If this is how you felt initially, it would have perhaps best to just state that and then ask for other opinion, correct? Just my observation and opinion. This is why people were upset, Steve. Now, without doing this "round about" thing, can you explain very straight forward and honestly that if you felt this way about Revelations to begin with, why you stated your post the way you initially did? People aren't upset with your beliefs, but more the seemingly predication that came along with it.

Again, No hard feelings!
 
Lifeasweknowit said:
"With all that has been posted here I would think that you would be able to see that the advice given is Scriptural by those who have posted it."

One last thing, Major. I already mentioned that it was very confusing for me, and therefore I need a direct answers. I never said that you all were not providing scriptual evidence. If you read my post my previous post you will see that. I feel that you're being very judgemental and incorrectly so. Again, this isn't anger, but hurt and confusion due to you misinterpreting my questions and comments.
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I certainly did not mean to upset you my dear. I had no intention of being judgmental. Personally I thought that there had been direct answers given and all I said was to confirm such.

If that hurt you I am truely sorry because there was no intent to do so.
 
Rusty said:
Sorry Steve: but the Bible teaches that ONLY at Christ's return will this happen:



This is what the Second Advent, a subject you have not been able to answer, is all about. This change only happens at His return, not when you die.
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Agreed Rusty!

I think the original question was what happens to the Christian at death?

May I say that the winds of life may make it a great struggle, and the darkness may make it seem frightening, and you may wonder, “What in the world is happening?” But take courage, what is happening is that Jesus is coming to take you home.

Christ will stand with you!!!

“Here am I, and the children God has given me.” ......(Hebrews 2:13)
You will not stand in the presence of God in alone!!!!..

You will be presented, in the presence of God, by the Lord Jesus Christ. Everything hangs on this relationship in which Christ says, “He’s mine! She’s mine!”

Do you see what a privilege it is to be a Christian? When you are set free from the fear of death, you are able to live life. When you know how to die, you discover how to live.

My friends, please understand what life actually is. LIFE is the preperation for death. What we choose today is what we will live with eternally.

That is why Joshua said......"Choose you this day who you will serve, but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord".
(Joshua 24:15).
 
When reading revelations we need to use logic. If something does not pass a logic acid test, it does not pass a logic acid test.

Major, not to praise you, but you hit the nail on the head in your posts here.

If I was the devil, I would invent as many false doctrines as possible around our end times. What better subject to deceive us on then Christ's return and us getting ready for it?
 
Besides, the devil is going to arrive in 'intergalactic' space ships developed by the US military in area 51, stored in China, Russia, South America and Antartica; proclaim himself god, solve every bodies problems by beheading Christians sometime around the global economic collapse and potentially WWIII......


:D
 
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