Questions On The Book Of Revelations

calvin said:
Lifeasweknowit, what was the purpose in posting a link to Matthewmagee.org?
He interprets revelation as a prophetic calendar BTW, which you already know I don't have any sympathy for.
That is no reason for you not being free to post as you are lead, just sayin.
If I'm coming across a bit testy, I just got in from a seminar thingy at the local Church were I felt obliged to tell the pastor to get down on his knees and repent.....I did say I'm outspoken didn't I?:cautious:
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Yes you did! :p and I for one belive you!
 
Glomung said:
When reading the Revelation it helps to keep in mind what St. John was experiencing.
The Son of God, who he hasn't seen in years appears in a rather dramatic way and form and wishes him to pen a few letters, then off to view a startling array of images, most of which he would have a very difficult time understanding.
Think of being in a movie theatre with 10 screens all going at once, each with a different movie, none of which you know the plot for. Makes for a very confusing scene, and St. John, to his credit, did a wonderful job of trying to make some sense of it all and described things as best he could.
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Excellant observation Glo!

It is in my opinion, the Holy Spirit took John 2000 years intoo the future and allowed him to see what was coming. Then he was told to write down what he saw. He did just that in the language of his day, not the language of our day.

I think we make the mistake of trying to put in things that are not there and then we simply refuse to accept what he did write.

John says that the Ephrates River will dry up and we make that some kind of spiritual event. WHY can it not be just as he said it was...... "He saw the River Euphrates dry up".

Just to put a point on that fact, the nation of Turkey where the Euphretes River begins has in fact built 22 dams on the Euphrates River and the closing of anyone of them would result in the River drying up. Look it for yourself.........
Google it and bingo, there it is!

What is my point???? The point is that at any moment man has the ability to stop the Euphrates River from flowing and that LITERAL event will bring John's to fulfillment. We are that close!!!!!!!!

We believe that God opened the Red Sea for the Jews to escape but when it comes to prophecy we want to make things "spiritual" and look for a lesson to be learned.
 
calvin said:
We all need to be careful of cultural differences I guess. With so much TV content coming in from the USA, the gap is shrinking, but it still exists. I recall having to ask Rumely to explain "'Sup Calvin?", I thought it was a criticism of some kind:(
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"SUP calvin"..........means that SUPPER is ready for you calvin. Dosen't it????
 
In america the rapture happens during tribulation/revelation. That is why I brought it up.
(Satan is bound which means we are accountable for our actions?) The law is written on our hearts and we are to seek the Lord.
John is referring to after death. Jesus conquered death.

These are from Steve (AKA FOC)and now everyone is talking about John. I'm even more confused...clearly there is something I'm missing. I just see Revelations as the end of everything and where we have peace on earth. What more is there? What else am I missing? What's all this John and pre-tribulation and rapture stuff? Please explain…this is what I was talking about earlier.
 
Lifeasweknowit said:
In america the rapture happens during tribulation/revelation. That is why I brought it up.
(Satan is bound which means we are accountable for our actions?) The law is written on our hearts and we are to seek the Lord.
John is referring to after death. Jesus conquered death.

These are from Steve (AKA FOC)and now everyone is talking about John. I'm even more confused...clearly there is something I'm missing. I just see Revelations as the end of everything and where we have peace on earth. What more is there? What else am I missing? What's all this John and pre-tribulation and rapture stuff? Please explain…this is what I was talking about earlier.
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LasweKit. aka (lifasweknowit).

Escatology (Study of last things) is a long process and can not be absorbed quickly.

It requires a lot of study and in depth comprehension not just in the book of the Revelation but other Scriptures as well.

Revelation is the unfolding of the book of Daniel. Daniel was told in chapter 12 of his book to "seal up the book until the time of the end". The apostle John is now given the Revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ on the last days.

Chronologocialy, IMO the Bible tells us thaty there will be an event called the Rapture. It is described and was quoted earlier
by Steve from 1 Corth. 15:51-58 and 1 Thess. 4:13-18.

That event IMO will take place in Revelation 4:1.

The rest of the Revelation is all about the 7 year Tribulation peroid described by Jeremiah, Daniel, Joel and Zecheriah.

The A/C will be revealed according to 2 Thesslonians 4:1-8 right after the Rapture.

The Rapture taking place BEFORE the Tribulation means "Pre-Tribulation". The true believers will be caught away to meet Jesus in the air (Pre-tribulation) then the 7 year Tribulation starts with the A/C signing a 7 year peace treaty according to Daniel 9:21-27.

Jesus comes back literally and physically at the end of the Tribulation and that is called the Battle of Armageddon.

Jesus will then rule for 1000 years from Jerusalem from Davids throne.

At the end of 1000 years there will be another battle of Gog and Magog as found in Revelation 20:6-9.

Then the Lord Jesus will create a New Heaven and a New Earth. No more seas and no more mountains and the glory of Christ willl light the universe.

Well........I hope that helps your understanding.
 
Lifeasweknowit: you also have to understand there are opposing interpretations when it comes to "End Times."(obviously this thread is the perfect example.) I for one see the pre-tribulation "rapture" as bordering on a false doctrine. Therefore, when it comes to such issues I encourage new Christians to stay out of Revelation at the beginning of their walk with the Lord and focus on what Christ requires us to do in the 'here and now.'

Although Major is admittedly grounded much better than I in the scriptures-I do not agree.
 
Rusty said:
Two points:

1.Tink (Lifeasweknowit) comes from a heavily prophecy oriented JW background, so of course she would like this area untangled. Your advise would hold on new Christians without her experience.

2. Opposing interpretations...yes..I don't see prophesy centred on apostates (Muslims, Jews and all the others) nor St.John jumbling up the Divine Record. I see prophesy is for the living saints of all ages, as it is about Christ's return, His love for the faithful, His care for His purchased ones, and His protection of the redeemed when Satan will let loose all his hatred against them in the Last Days.

I don't see it about nations, races, tanks and guns, OPEC, Turkish dams, soldiers from China called "kings" or any other form of secular geo-politics on the nightly news.
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Getting people to see the simple truth is like being a voice crying out in the wilderness.............nobody is listening.
 
There are many interpretations, this I do agree with. What I am doing is reading Revelation for what is says in the tense and time frame when it was written, and keeping all the events that happened in scripture and documented by historians... Many try to make it a modern day interpretation. Taken the Jewish ways out and making it Christian, twisting them to make them a today prophecy. We have to understand the disciples were Jewish and keepers of the Law of Moses. The breakers of the covenant suffer Judgment after Jesus death (This was fulfilled in Revelation in the that generation Jesus walked the earth). The keepers of the Law are blessed. This is why the Temple was destroyed because of the breakers of the covenant and the Law were judged. Jesus is our last sacrifice. He came to fulfill the Law.

John wrote Revelation when he was exiled from Jerusalem during the time of tribulation and everything that was revealed to John was to shortly take place. Revelation centers around visions and symbols of the resurrected Jesus, who alone has authority to judge the earth, to remake it, and rule it in righteousness. All has been fulfilled. Jesus talked to Nicodemus about this. One has to be born again or he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jesus says unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Jesus also says in Revelation that He is the fountain of living water. The water is Jesus, and being born again is being born immortal after we die. Jesus also says "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already. So that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life...

This is why I left all organized religions and focused on Jesus in the word. All the Jewish Feast and Festivals reveal that God instituted the festivals and new month celebrations to serve as reminders of Him and our obligations to Him. As such they serve as teaching aids for absorbing His truths and promises. They can also serve to communicate God's message to our children and friends.

Lifeasweknowit many will come to confuse the way with the doctrines of men. Pray about it and ask Jesus to guide you to all truth. I believe in you and I know that the Lord is True and Just. Pray for the ones that are lost. I implore everyone in here to step back from creeds and doctrines in religious denominations and seek the Lord. This is why I brought up about renewing my mind. I had to get all the doctrines of what I was taught to be fact, and it wasn't out of my head.

Jesus is the true vine, not the vine of denominations and false teaching they teach. Like I said I am a sinner and no better then anyone on this room, but I do know I will have to stand before the Lord and account for my own actions. I want Him to say welcome my good and faithful servant, and not Him saying "I never knew you!"
 
Rusty said:
Steve: You must not skip the things Paul wrote about the Law of Moses, and ignore the fact that Christ Himself did NOT instruct the born again to be chained to the 600 plus rabbinic law...This statement of yours is inaccurate, to put it mildly:
They were before being born again, but as time passed they saw the uselessness of all the Jewish legalism.

Now if you want to "keep the Jewish festivals", that's your thing, and a highly customized form of Christianity if one links that to your preterism. But if you keep one part of that system, you must keep all. Good luck with that!
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Jesus became the fulfillment of the Law. That is what Paul was talking about. So the statement was not inaccurate.

We don't have to celebrate the Feast and festivals, but to be knowledgeable of them since they are a reflection on How to serve the Lord. The Shabbot is the day of rest, Rosh Hashanah (New Year) blowing of the shofar/trumpet. Yom Kippur (The last Days of Awe, the day for atone for one's sin's), Sukkot (The Jewish Thanksgiving)"Ingathering" or "Fruit-Harvest" festival became a commemoration of the 40 years that the Hebrew wandered in the desert, living in temporary shelters like tents or "booths".

I think you get the idea...
 
In my opinion it should be noted that (as far as we know) Christ intentional chose 12 disciples that were NOT Pharisees, Sadducees, or scribes. Which could be just another reason why the Jewish Establishment wanted Christ dead.
 
Dirtyrottensinner said:
In my opinion it should be noted that (as far as we know) Christ intentional chose 12 disciples that were NOT Pharisees, Sadducees, or scribes. Which could be just another reason why the Jewish Establishment wanted Christ dead.
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Hmmmm never thought about it like that. I know Paul was a very strict Pharisee. Has the most writings of any disciples.
 
Saul was the "cat's meow" in the Temple-and he gave it all away. Paul got his Pharisee heart right with God-fulfilling the law...


The MEGA Commandment: Matthew 22:37-38

Great= Megas # 3173
 
Dirtyrottensinner said:
Lifeasweknowit: you also have to understand there are opposing interpretations when it comes to "End Times."(obviously this thread is the perfect example.) I for one see the pre-tribulation "rapture" as bordering on a false doctrine. Therefore, when it comes to such issues I encourage new Christians to stay out of Revelation at the beginning of their walk with the Lord and focus on what Christ requires us to do in the 'here and now.'

Although Major is admittedly grounded much better than I in the scriptures-I do not agree.
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Yes, sound advice but as someone else pointed out, she Tink, has come from a JW background and so it is quite understandable that she is looking for and needs to find answers.

I see that nobody is prepared to throw out the prophecy timelines and just look for Christ within the book.

Y'See as I see it, even if someone could conclusively prove that the beast will drag itself up onto the beach and shake the water off at 2:15pm June 10 2554AD, People would close the book and go off worrying about something else.....who would stay and study the revealing of Christ Jesus?
 
Thank you so much everyone...I'm going to have to take some time and really delve into this with the Word. I think I got a little ahead of myself; I appreciate you all explaining and trying to keep me on track.:love:
 
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