TalkJesus
Inactive
You can argue that water baptism is void if you wish; many do.
Well, brother. Scripture does not support water baptism as a necessity for salvation.
My stance is the same-if you feel the desire to show your obedience to Christ through water baptism-then I don't think there is anything 'un' Biblical about it.
If by obedience to Christ is by not believing in Jesus as being able to save you that you need water baptism, then that is not being obedient to Christ.
1 Peter 3:21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Water is used for putting away the filth of the flesh and so Peter was denouncing water baptism here as it is the answer of a good conscience toward God which is by believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Concerning John 4:2, are you 100% sure about the translation of "but"? Does this mean that Jesus' disciples baptized people, or does it mean Jesus baptized the disciples?
John 4:1When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, 2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
Since John the Baptist have been getting disciples by his water baptism as there are disciples of John the Baptist's, clarity was needed here that His disciples were growing by water baptism in Jesus' name, but Jesus wasn't the One that was actually baptizing others, but His disciples were doing it.
This is not the 'Holy Spirit' baptism since they did not receive that baptism until after the resurrection.
Umm.. not quite. They had received the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost at Pentecost which was after Jesus had ascended to the right hand of God the Father. The one that He had given in John 20th chapter was still a temporary one because He was still present with them.
Either way-water baptism was going in Jesus' presence AND after the resurrection. I don't think that can be disputed. So why would Jesus condone water baptism if it became void in the future?
Jesus never validated water baptism as a significant point in any believer's life in being born again. In fact, He had spoken against such outward limitation as to when a person was saved.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?....14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
If water baptism was the event when a perosn was born again then what Jesus said in verse 8 would be null & void. Nicodemus had asked another question for how this born again can come about then and Jesus answered by any one believing in Him is how one is born again as in saved.
Acts 10:43-48 testifies to believers receiving the Holy Ghost before they got water baptized, even though afterwards, they were commanded to do so.
So it is not a necessity for salvation, but IF as a commandment to do it for salvation, then faith is being voided.
If you read John 14:15-17, you would think that there are commandments to do in order to receive the promise of the Holy Ghost, as if it meant all that Jesus had taught, but not so. The commandments He was referring to is what He has repeated over and over again leading up to that verse 15 and that is to believe Him from verse 1.
Ephesians 1:12-15 is proof of what is being plainly taught to the churches as to when a believer receives the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ.