Raising people from dead

[Major]

You claimed there is no evidence that people are being raised from the dead today. Besides the bible, what evidence do you have that people were raised from the dead in the bible? We all have faith that everything happened in the bible that it said happened, but what evidence do you have? I have faith that God is still raising people from the dead and using man to do this. I have no evidence to provide to you other than what I have read and granted I don't believe everyone but I judge people from scripture and the ones I do believe have given me no reason to doubt that what they say is true.

Lance...if it were possible, and it happened that someone dead 3 days or more was then raised from the dead, you know very well that it would be on every news cast around the world. If you will recall Lazerus, Jesus waited TWO extra day just to prove that He could raise the dead. Lazerus was indeed dead because his body had begun to decay. The body begins to decay at the very moment of death. After a couple of days the smell would be intolerable.

As for evidence, the only evidence I know that we need is the Bible.

2 Tim. 3:16
"ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

John 11:39
"Jesus said, "Take away the stone." Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, "Lord, by this time there will be an odor, for he has been dead four days."

Now that is what I am talking about. I say that so we can be on the same page here. That is the precedent that Jesus sat by raising Lazarus .

Do YOU know of anyone who fits that paradigm? Most of us have heard someone tell us a story but stories are only stories and they always tend to get bigger and bolder the more that they are told.

Now as for near death, or in cases where some one has had their heart stop beating, doctors are now able to resuscitate those people and many do go on to live long lives. MY own father was thought to have been dead back in the 30's when he went into a coma because of Measles, but he was not dead and in a few hours recovered. They thought he died but medicine then was not what it is today.

Here is something else to think about. IF a man had the gift of bringing the dead back to life, why is that person not on staff at the hospital emergency room??????

IF a man has the gift of healing, why is he not going from one hospital room to another healing the sick and raising the dead?????

Again...please do not think I am making light of this because I just like you believe that God still does miracles, and heals the sick. GOD DOES!

James 5:13-16
"Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much".

 

[Major]

You have misunderstood me .
I use the principle of biblical argument as exampled by Paul and in particular the letters to the Romans and Hebrews.
Where by in that argument he uses those scriptures that pertain to that argument .Not twisting them out of meaning. But using the meaning of each verse to uphold his argument .
I do not therefore believe I have taken any of the verses I used out of context and by that their meaning .
In the case of the burning bush .I was simply pointing out that it was not the bush that spoke to Moses but God in the midst of the bush and that part of the argument I had hoped to show what I meant of God doing the work not the man .
You suggest that God only speaks through His word. Primarily yes . But not always . Both by experience and by scripture.
ALL things were created by God and thus potentially everything has something to say or God can use to say it about God or some principle.
Did not Jesus use the natural to convey spiritual truth ?
A burning bush is a common occurance in the heat of the wilderness . But not one that was not consumed . God knows how to catch our attention and it was when Moses turned to see this thing that God spoke to him.
I once saw a snail eating . When did you ever see a snail eating? I never had so my attention was caught by the sight .once I started looking or turned to see it as it were .Then God lifted my eyes to see and understand something that I had not thought of before at all in such a practical way. Another time as I was driving south at 70 mile san hour .I saw a pidgeon flying it seemed just as fast and in a straight line in the opposite direction. It provoked the thought where was it going so fast and purposefully? That led to what I call a very long thought that God used to show me more and understand what perhaps I could not have any other way .
So yes I do believe God can and does speak through any other sort of burning bush if you will.
and why not? All things are upheld by the Word of His power and are not all things made by the Word of God that were made? How is it then you say God cannot speak via a bush or a pidgeon or a snail or whatever way eh chooses to catch your attention?
That does not mean I am a Moses or someone else is. It is simply the same God.
and How did Jesus come to say "the kingdom of God is likened unto a sower that went to sow....?

No problem with misunderstandings .
As it is very easy to do so over the written word and with a gap between the speakers or writers . if that is so with man how much the more with the Word of God? if we are not careful.
But with good will and right attitude any such misunderstandings can be overcome and resolved t5o the profit of both.

As to the matter of faith . That Paul says
faith in God comes by hearing and that by hearing the Word of God .
We should understand it cannot be just by hearing the word preached that men are saved . Though unless it is preached how can anybody be saved is not disputed .

But if all that was needed was to but hear the gospel all would be saved . But they are not .
For the devil has blinded the eyes (of their understanding) that they see not and understand and be saved .
thus it is with ears that hear or understand that generates the faith in God.,
But men have no excuse who condemn faith as they do these days . For ALL men have faith as to what faith IS . "For God has given to all a measure of faith to profit with all"
Thus God is justified in all His ways . For those whos faith is NOT in God and those whos faith is IN God will become manifest .
Thus my argument was indeed still about the subject inquestion about raising the dead .
I was simply answering yours and others objections to the fact that he still can and occasionlay does through the ministrations of men .
But as you said it is not the man who does it . But God who is in the midst of the man working .

in Christ
gerald

Gerald.....you said a lot to just say....................
"Thus my argument was indeed still about the subject inquestion about raising the dead .
I was simply answering yours and others objections to the fact that he still can and occasionlay does through the ministrations of men ."

We will have to be in disagreement on this subject.

It is my opinion that many people who are involved "Signs and Wonders" theology lean over backwards to make that theology fit the teaching of their leaders and thereby ignore the words of the Scriptures and the facts of everyday life we have today.

We can debate this forever I suspect. May I say to you that some cases where people have "died" didn't occur to people who were technically dead. These people simply didn't have heartbeats that approached, or were thought to regain, regular rhythm. All efforts to save them were put aside, doctors were resigned to the inevitable... and a few minutes later their heartbeat simply evened out and gained strength. That's not so dramatic.

That is not being raised from the dead as one would have us to believe.

The idea of a man being dead regaining life even when viewed through the most rosy of lenses, isn't an unqualified miracle. On the cases where this has been recorded by doctors, almost all of those effected did not have a high level of neurological activity. The rest sustain brain damage from either their injuries or a lack of circulation during the time they were "dead."

Anyway....we will as I said have to be in disagreement over this.

 

[LanceA]

Lance...if it were possible, and it happened that someone dead 3 days or more was then raised from the dead, you know very well that it would be on every news cast around the world. If you will recall Lazerus, Jesus waited TWO extra day just to prove that He could raise the dead. Lazerus was indeed dead because his body had begun to decay. The body begins to decay at the very moment of death. After a couple of days the smell would be intolerable.

As for evidence, the only evidence I know that we need is the Bible.

2 Tim. 3:16
"ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

John 11:39
"Jesus said, "Take away the stone." Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, "Lord, by this time there will be an odor, for he has been dead four days."

Now that is what I am talking about. I say that so we can be on the same page here. That is the precedent that Jesus sat by raising Lazarus .

Do YOU know of anyone who fits that paradigm? Most of us have heard someone tell us a story but stories are only stories and they always tend to get bigger and bolder the more that they are told.

Now as for near death, or in cases where some one has had their heart stop beating, doctors are now able to resuscitate those people and many do go on to live long lives. MY own father was thought to have been dead back in the 30's when he went into a coma because of Measles, but he was not dead and in a few hours recovered. They thought he died but medicine then was not what it is today.

Here is something else to think about. IF a man had the gift of bringing the dead back to life, why is that person not on staff at the hospital emergency room??????

IF a man has the gift of healing, why is he not going from one hospital room to another healing the sick and raising the dead?????

Again...please do not think I am making light of this because I just like you believe that God still does miracles, and heals the sick. GOD DOES!

James 5:13-16
"Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much".

I think when I say God uses us to heal you are thinking I mean we do the healing. God does all the healing but does it through us via prayer, faith, belief and yes we can command a sickness to depart in Christs name. I do agree with you it all comes from God.

 

[Major]

I think when I say God uses us to heal you are thinking I mean we do the healing. God does all the healing but does it through us via prayer, faith, belief and yes we can command a sickness to depart in Christs name. I do agree with you it all comes from God.

Agreed my brother. Well said!

My concern has always been men who go from one stadium to the next and wielding the Holy Ghost as if he had some kind of ability to tell the Holy Ghost what to do and who to heal. IMO it just does not work the way most people see it done on religious TV programs.

 

[Silk]

And I don't want to prolong an argument but God has no need to "use us" via prayer, faith or anything else to do what He does. If I pray for you, and you benefit from that prayer - I DID NOT cause the benefit. My prayer directs me to God and that is the reward to me. Having said that, I had a female friend who was about my mother's age who had failings and short comings (as we all do) and was not perfect. But whenever I was concerned about something I considered important at the time, I would ask her to pray for me. She was Catholic and lit candles. And I have to say, God always seemed to answer her prayers affirmatively (I miss her). So, I know the power of prayer and it is vastly under rated, it seems to me, these days. Faith can move mountains. Yes. And God is still doing miracles, daily. To use these gifts of God to authenticate/validate your own value as a believer/God's favorite and to gain fame and fortune is to take away where rightfully all the glory should go. Like Major, I am saying that these mega ministries are doing harm.

 

[GBzone]

And I don't want to prolong an argument but God has no need to "use us" via prayer, faith or anything else to do what He does. If I pray for you, and you benefit from that prayer - I DID NOT cause the benefit. My prayer directs me to God and that is the reward to me. Having said that, I had a female friend who was about my mother's age who had failings and short comings (as we all do) and was not perfect. But whenever I was concerned about something I considered important at the time, I would ask her to pray for me. She was Catholic and lit candles. And I have to say, God always seemed to answer her prayers affirmatively (I miss her). So, I know the power of prayer and it is vastly under rated, it seems to me, these days. Faith can move mountains. Yes. And God is still doing miracles, daily. To use these gifts of God to authenticate/validate your own value as a believer/God's favorite and to gain fame and fortune is to take away where rightfully all the glory should go. Like Major, I am saying that these mega ministries are doing harm.

Jesus taught that the primary means to bring the kingdom of God into manifestation was by prayer .

"Thy kingdom come ........."
When James was arrested .It seems not much prayer went up to God .
When Peter was afterwards then they got serious .
When the children of Israel cried unto God in Egypt .It was not until they really got serious did he send Moses.
When Elijah a man of like passions as ourselves prayed .The heavens it is recorded were closed. When he prayed they were opened .
Another prayed and the sun stopped in its orbit .
When Moses prayed lifting his arms before God .Israel prevailed . When he grew tired and his arms dropped they began to lose.
Did not Jesus say to the disciples to pray in the garden?
why? "Lest you fall into temptation for the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak"
They slept he prayed .
He conquered they fled.

God does not "use us" but it is written we are "co -workers with God"

He asked Peter James and John to share with Him in prayer or pray with him in prayer .
True they could not pray his prayer .But they could have 'comforted' him by their prayers .
But he trod the wine press alone .

Prayer is a vital and great nescesity for the need of labourers! for one thing .For the harvest is great but the labourers are few.

and much else besides .

You always find Jesus praying. If he felt the need so then do all .

I cannot condone the use of candles nor encourage it. For the bible does not .

We are to pray without ceasing .

It should become our very breath and our first thing in all we have to face and do ."do all things with prayer!"

In Christ
gerald

 

[Silk]

I pray alllllll the time. I'm not speaking against prayer, nor what it can do. God already knows what's in my heart. When I pray, I let Him know I know it. To say that God "needs" me to pray for His work to be done is not the same thing. I am not His co-worker.

 

[GBzone]

I pray alllllll the time. I'm not speaking against prayer, nor what it can do. God already knows what's in my heart. When I pray, I let Him know I know it. To say that God "needs" me to pray for His work to be done is not the same thing. I am not His co-worker.

I was not accusing you of anything .Sorry if that suggested it .
if you look it up you will find that we are co labourers with God.
or to put it accurately if you will 1Cor 3:9
"For we are labourers together with God :...................
We sow another reaps but God gives the increase . How is that not labouring with God?

In Christ
gerald

 

[Silk]

I agree I am God's laborer. But he's da Boss. I want to go by His will at all times. That is always a part of my prayers, open and keep open my eyes, heart, and mind to your will. And everyone elses. Edit* I meant open other's eyes, hearts, etc. I pray for people's households now. My household, Major's, CFS members..........

 

[Ph8th]

Over weekend, I had gone to my friend's house for a birthday party. It was all families from our Church.. What do you think when believers meet? We started discussing various topics related to faith!!

I came to know about this person Reinhard Bonnke. Have never heard of him before. We saw youtube videos of someone raised from dead in Nigeria during his conference.

Are people really being raised from death today? Do you believe such miracles are happening today? This is the question. And the question is not asking whether God is able to raise people from death. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. So let's not even get there! Let's just focus on whether you believe it is happening today or not. If you don't believe, what to you think the reason is? I think the last recorded event in Bible was from Paul.. So the list of people who performed such a mighty miracle are,

Elijah, Elisha - Prophets
Jesus - Messiah
Paul, Peter - Apostles

I know a man who had a heart attack and died he was without a pulse for 20 minutes in 2005. His brother went to him from a neighboring state to unplug him from life support. When his brother got there he had started breathing on his own. The brother was told due to the brain damage that he would be under nursing care for the rest of his life. He could not sit up he was fed through a tube and peed in a bag and did not know who he was for months. He had to be taught to eat again, he would try to inhale his food. He went from being pushed in a wheel chair to operating it, the walker cane. He left the nursing home in the beginning of 2006. His memory was so that he would ask mid sentence what are we talking about. In August of 2007 2 years to the month he did the first triathlon of his life and another in 2008 and 2009. He quit watching tv in 2006 and spent his time with the Lord he professes God everywhere he goes. The Lord gave him a ministry of poetry which he retains lots of it in his head. This guy never wrote poetry before. You were asking about miracles in this day and time....... this fellow is living proof God is still performing them.
Some think him being alive is the miracle but the real miracle is the man left and his heart for God

I am on the greatest journey
That man can go through
It’s the journey that begins
When he s called by You
The journeys never ending
There is more to be had
It s the experiences of life
Whether good or bad
Times of joy times of toil
Times of hurt and pain
My need for You grows stronger
It never remains the same
My need is to have all of You
My heart shouts for more
Your mysteries vanish by asking
or knocking at your door
All l that I have is worthless
There is nothing I can do
My life is incomplete unless
its lived for you
So I continue on this journey
Its what I have to do
Is follow my heart
on this journey
My pursuit of You
Thank You
Jesus

​

peter