Restoration Of The Nation Israel

Believers need to support the "Remnant" of Israel and not the state of Israel

Yeah, I was thinking about that earlier as well, Intojoy; that does seem to be an important distinction to make. When different people have said "Israel" in this discussion, that word has probably been used to refer to different things.
 
Morning Roads,

My friend, it seems to me, and I say this in all gentleness and love, that you and many on this site are overlooking our calling as born again children of God, members of His Church, Christ's body on Earth, as I have stated previously, we are called to be Ambassadors of reconciliation, ...not condemnation.

Jesus said,

He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him. John 14:22

The signification of the word has is to own, to be in possession of, to hold, so before we can keep His commandants we need to own them, that is receive them into our souls, our hearts, so that they can/will change our wills, only after we have fed on His Word will we be able to do His Will.

Now, what are His commandments, ...we are to love God with all of our spirit, soul, body and strength, to love our neighbor as are selves and to love the brothers and sisters in the Body, when we are born again we are given the Holy Spirit, He comes and takes up residence in our lives and He brings with Him the Agape love of God, we find the actions of that love to be,

Love (Agape) is kind and patient, never jealous, boastful, proud, or rude. Love isn't selfish or quick tempered. It doesn't keep a record of wrongs that others do. Love rejoices in the truth, but not in evil. Love is always supportive, loyal, hopeful, and trusting. Love never fails! 1Co 13:4-8

Since this Agape love is given to us by the Holy Spirit, a type of love we didn't have in our lives before we were regenerated, then our lives, our walk should exemplify the Agape love that is empowering us to walk the walk.

So, if this Agape love in us is kind, patient, doesn't keep a record of wrongs, is always supportive, loyal then were does a judgmental attitude come from?

Since the foundational principle of the Kingdom of God is Agape Love, and the foundational principle of the kingdom of darkness, present on this planet, is commercialism/merchandising, then obviously judging must come from the kingdom of darkness.

The only people we find Jesus judging and condemning, while here on Earth, were the people that said they knew God, those that were teaching falsehood to lead the people away from the Truth.

Jesus taught us the reasons we are to judge is to expose false teachings which are harmful to His Body and to judge sin in the Body to keep it pure, ...always using the Word of God.

So, may I ask this question, if you are born again, filled with the Holy Spirit, do you have His commandments, do you own them in your heart, are you walking in His Agape Love, if so then how can you find fault, an action of judging that comes from the kingdom of darkness, with me or anyone else for that matter, ...is God really God in your life, you see, like I said, I'm not involved in the affairs of this world because I'm not called to be involved in them, my calling, the Church's calling, is to announce the Good News, not find fault with, expose the sins of a sick and dying world, the dispensation of law and condemnation is past, we are now living in the dispensation of Grace, it's our duty/obligation to dispense Grace, unmerited, unearned favor to those that don't deserve it (and that includes Israel). We need to let God be God, He started this thing and He will finish it, we need to concentrate on what He has called us to do, using the tools he has provided, urging those outside of what ever race to come in and join us, to rejoice in the mercy and grace we have received, ...so if we are constantly judging others, finding fault with others, why then would they even want to join us, those outside know they have faults, it's because of our unloving actions of judging them that makes them afraid we would find fault with them once they joined us that keeps them away, ...that is not the mission of the Church.

I'll end with these words from my Master,

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. John 8:7

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. John 8:10, 11

Blessings,

Gene
 
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When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. John 8:10, 11

Anyone ever wonder what it was that Jesus was writing in the sand??????????
 
The commandment of God, is to believe on Him who was sent by the Father. That's it, finished period, in terms of what our justification is based on. Your question could be asked in two questions rather than one and I think just with one question it over simplifies God's plan for the redeemed, the born again man or woman.

What is God's commandment for salvation?

And

What are God's commandments for man as man's rule of life after salvation?

The first Q was answered above. The second Q is answered by searching the scriptures and compiling a list of positive and negative commandments which apply to us. When Paul says that husbands should love their wives and live in knowledge with them this is a law for us and not an option. When. James says that we are not to give preference to a rich man over a beggar this is a commandment and not optional it is part of the believers rule of life after he gets saved. We have many such commandments from Christ to follow and we need to be obedient to follow them. David was saved by grace thru faith outside from the Mosaic Law (613 commandments not just 10) but God gave the Law of Moses as the rule of life for the believers of David's day and regardless of the failure of David to keep that Law note David's attitude towards it; The Law of The Lord is my delight and I meditate in it day and night. Unlike David, we have the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit and we have not been given a Law for the purpose of revealing and magnifying our sin nor one to lead us to Christ. We've been given a law that can be followed in the power of God by using the Gifts of the Holy Spirit so that we can become the kind of people we were created to become - full of compassion and completely humble followers of Messiah. None of us attains this standard perfectly but we can trust God to honor His word, humble thyself and He shall lift us up.
 
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. John 8:10, 11

Anyone ever wonder what it was that Jesus was writing in the sand??????????

Stan's avatar?
 
Anyone ever wonder what it was that Jesus was writing in the sand??????????

I asked the Lord that same question, here's what He gave me,

O Jehovah, the Hope of Israel, all who forsake You shall be ashamed. Those who depart from Me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken Jehovah, the Fountain of living waters. Jer 17:13

works in this situation, doesn't it, the men departed from the Living Water.

Blessings,

Gene
 
My friend, it seems to me, and I say this in all gentleness and love, that you and many on this site are overlooking our calling as born again children of God, members of His Church, Christ's body on Earth, as I have stated previously, we are called to be Ambassadors of reconciliation, ...not condemnation.

The problem I have with the reports you have presented is I find them biased, why, because there isn't a Palestinian race of people, the people illegally occupying the land of Israel today are Arabs, Arabs that settled there after 70 AD when God scattered His people for not recognizing their Messiah, when Israel was granted the right to become a nation again on May 14, 1948, the Arabs that stayed there were forced to because the Arab countries where they came from would not allow them to return, hence Israel, showing grace, allowed them to stay, to become Israeli citizens, receiving all the benefits of nationality, vote, and were even allowed to vote members into the Kennset, so how unfair is that? What was the gratitude these squatters showed to their hosts, ...they allowed the Hamas and Hezbollahs to live among them and shoot rockets at Israel, kidnap Israeli citizens and torture them, dragging their mutilated bodies behind a jeep, ...all the time these cowards are hiding behind women and children.

That revolts me and makes me angry to the very core of my being! I'm not Jewish, just an average everyday kind of guy, but that is inhumane, animalistic and I don't care what race of people perpetrate these kind of brutal crimes, ...270 UN sanctions against Israel and not one against these cowards (?) personally, I wonder and am amazed at the restraint of Israel for not wiping them off of the map.

Were you judging and condemning the people living in the occupied territories when you said that? How about "becoming involved in the affairs of the world?"

So, if this Agape love in us is kind, patient, doesn't keep a record of wrongs, is always supportive, loyal then were does a judgmental attitude come from?

Since the foundational principle of the Kingdom of God is Agape Love, and the foundational principle of the kingdom of darkness, present on this planet, is commercialism/merchandising, then obviously judging must come from the kingdom of darkness.
...

it's our duty/obligation to dispense Grace, unmerited, unearned favor to those that don't deserve it

So let's not stand in judgement of any people, then, agreed? Including the people you mentioned living in the occupied territories?

Jesus said,

He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him. John 14:22

The signification of the word has is to own, to be in possession of, to hold, so before we can keep His commandants we need to own them, that is receive them into our souls, our hearts, so that they can/will change our wills, only after we have fed on His Word will we be able to do His Will.

Now, what are His commandments, ...we are to love God with all of our spirit, soul, body and strength, to love our neighbor as are selves and to love the brothers and sisters in the Body, when we are born again we are given the Holy Spirit, He comes and takes up residence in our lives and He brings with Him the Agape love of God...

Part of Biblical teaching, so, God's commandments, is to recognise and address need in the world. Take care of orphans and widows. Visit prisoners. Feed the hungry. I think, reading back through my posts, that I've advocated that the church should respond in love to the situation in the middle east.

Part of the way my church responds to the need in my area, and demonstrates love through action, is by providing food and shelter, and other basic necessities of survival, to people in need. Sometimes it's visiting prisoners. Sometimes, when responding to people's needs, it becomes necessary to provide advocate services. Advocate services are legal services. When we advocate for people, we become involved in the legal system; we have to understand how the legal system works, participate in it, and sometimes officially recognise that injustice/evil has been done. By recognizing that injustice/evil has been done, are we condemning and being judgmental? Have we "gotten involved in the affairs of the world?" Have we done something beyond the calling of the church? The people in my church who offer those free legal services are very passionate that they've been specifically called to address very real needs in that way.

Similarly, when Christians respond to need in the world, sometimes it's through meeting physical need. Say, providing relief to victims of natural disasters or war violence. Sometimes it's through advocating on behalf of the suffering by petitioning governments to act one way or another, or even running for political office themselves (and lots of other ways, too). Personally, I tend to focus on the former method, but I don't think Christians who focus on the latter are breaching their calling as Christians. I can see that God has placed it on their hearts to respond to need in that way.

Let's also discuss whether or not this notion of "finding fault" is the same as "judgement." Say a brother is, as the Bible says it, "caught in sin," how does the Bible say we should respond? Do we simply say, ah well, it's not my place to judge or find fault, carry on, then. Is recognising that a person has done wrong the same thing as judging them? Don't we want to address the wrong that's been done precisely because we love the person that's done it? I haven't advocated that we condemn Israel, or any other nation. I've advocated that we recognise and respond to evil and injustice. We can do this in a way that demonstrates love.
 
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I asked the Lord that same question, here's what He gave me,

O Jehovah, the Hope of Israel, all who forsake You shall be ashamed. Those who depart from Me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken Jehovah, the Fountain of living waters. Jer 17:13

works in this situation, doesn't it, the men departed from the Living Water.

Blessings,

Gene
What about the woman caught up in adultery? Had she not departed from the living water as well?
Seems to me that if we were required to know what Jesus wrote, we would have been told.
 
Hey bro,

Follow the flow of the story, Jesus was writing in the dust while those that were condemning her were departing, the lady acknowledged she was a sinner by the fact she stayed there and didn't depart until after Jesus told her to go.

But like I said, Father gave this to me during a personal devotion time with Him, so pray about it, if you can't/don't receive it then no worries mate.

Blessing,

Gene
 
Jesus did not just let her go. If He would have done that He would've been guilty of breaking the Law and been disqualified from being the Messiah. Perhaps He wrote the specifics of that Law concerning adultery which mandated that the person throwing the first stone could not be guilty of the same sin of adultery? Obviously the accusers were adulterers themselves. Jesus does not condemn her because their case against her was flawed. Also this is the only occasion of Yeshua being challenges by the Pharisees on the basis of Mosaic Law. On every other occasion they challenge Yeshua not on the basis of the Law of Moses but on the basis of their traditions on the basis of Mishnaic law.
 
Jesus did not just let her go

Maybe I missed something, just what is the meaning of Him saying He did not condemn her and then telling her to go?

What's the problem, like I said it works for me and incidentally I've heard other people give the same response, so if you can't/don't receive it, no worries mate.

Blessings,

Gene
 
The lady acknowledged she was a sinner by the fact she stayed there and didn't depart until after Jesus told her to go.

I agree with that observation. I wonder if Jesus would have responded to the situation differently if she didn't acknowledge any wrongdoing?

Again, I am not throwing stones at Israel. Throwing stones in this story is a final condemnation, like her accusers are going to kill her. That's pretty final. I'm not suggesting that anyone should be doing that to any nation for any reason. I think the reaction I have toward the situation is actually "go and sin no more." Jesus' reaction fully acknowledges that wrongdoing is taking place. Has He judged her by doing so? Yes, which is why we need to distinguish judgement from condemnation. I don't condemn Israel. Rather, what's wrong with suggesting that Israel "go and sin no more"? Surely that's more of a Biblical approach than ignoring the fact the there is wrongdoing taking place, or trying to justify the wrongdoing in some way.
 
Well I guess I'm missing something here. You guys might like to help me out a bit.
My Bible reads : John 8:3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10.11. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”
Where are we told that the woman acknowledged her wrong doing? My understanding of her staying is that since Jesus had sent her accusers packing, she was safer with him that if she had left with them as though she were part of their company. Had she left with them, she would have risked being stoned to death just around the corner, or they could have grabbed her and stoned her outside the city limits, or wherever they pleased.
But all that aside, the woman was engaged in conversation by Jesus, so all we are told is that she tarried until dismissed by Jesus. She has just been rescued by Jesus; it would have been quite rude of her to have just walked off while He was talking to her. I trust nobody is employing eisegesis here. :whistle: :unsure: :sneaky:
 
I trust nobody is employing eisegesis here. :whistle: :unsure: :sneaky:

Hey calvin, yeah, you're not wrong, there is a possible reading, I suppose, where the woman doesn't think she's done anything wrong. I think it's more likely that she did: For example, "go and sin no more" could be interpreted as a call for repentance, but it seems more fitting as something you'd say to an already-repentant person. But you're absolutely right, we shouldn't make assumptions where there are multiple possible readings.
 
Hey calvin, yeah, you're not wrong, there is a possible reading, I suppose, where the woman doesn't think she's done anything wrong. I think it's more likely that she did: For example, "go and sin no more" could be interpreted as a call for repentance, but it seems more fitting as something you'd say to an already-repentant person. But you're absolutely right, we shouldn't make assumptions where there are multiple possible readings.

There is so much scope for speculation. For example the woman knew she was sinning while committing the act of adultery. When caught in the act she was sorry, not for the act, but sorry she was caught.
At some indeterminable time after coming into contact with Jesus, she most likely saw that there was an opportunity and real incentive to actually repent.
But just when that might have taken place could best be left to the speculative spirit within us.
I wonder why the vigilantes never went after the man whom she was committing adultery with?
 
I asked the Lord that same question, here's what He gave me,

O Jehovah, the Hope of Israel, all who forsake You shall be ashamed. Those who depart from Me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken Jehovah, the Fountain of living waters. Jer 17:13

works in this situation, doesn't it, the men departed from the Living Water.

Blessings,

Gene

Well, then there is this down to earth simple explination that seems to fit for me...............

We will never know until we can ask the Master one day face to face, BUT......my sense is that He was writing down the names of the old men standing around him looking down at what He was doing. After He wrote their name, He then wrote the name of the woman that THEY HAD COMMITTED ADULTRY with, the day and the hour and even the number of the motel room they did it in. As each man saw his name, he left knowing that he was as guilty as the woman who was caught in the sane act.

Think about it!
 
Well I guess I'm missing something here. You guys might like to help me out a bit.
My Bible reads : John 8:3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10.11. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”
Where are we told that the woman acknowledged her wrong doing? My understanding of her staying is that since Jesus had sent her accusers packing, she was safer with him that if she had left with them as though she were part of their company. Had she left with them, she would have risked being stoned to death just around the corner, or they could have grabbed her and stoned her outside the city limits, or wherever they pleased.
But all that aside, the woman was engaged in conversation by Jesus, so all we are told is that she tarried until dismissed by Jesus. She has just been rescued by Jesus; it would have been quite rude of her to have just walked off while He was talking to her. I trust nobody is employing eisegesis here. :whistle: :unsure: :sneaky:

Sounds logical to me. It is what I would have done.
 
Whoa brothers, I said it was given to me during my personal devotional time with the Lord, why don't you take it before Him and see what He tells you, rather than debate it here?

Makes me kind of curious as to what the Lord speaks to you during your personal devotional time with Him?

He is always teaching me, explaining to me, opening up Scripture to me, it's the gift of teaching in operation Nem 8:8 by the Holy Spirit, isn't that what Jesus did with His two disciples on the road to Emmaus.

And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. Luke 24:27

And they said to one another, Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us by the way and while He opened the Scriptures to us? Luke 24:32

I hesitated to say what He had shown me for this very reason, because being spread out over all the planet we aren't all at the same place in Scripture, I have found when a church is teaching through the Bible, book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. we are where we are in Scripture, the events in are lives correspond with and are being addressed from where we are in the Word.

So, if you question it, can't receive it then like I said no worries mate, however if you want to have Jesus teach you then take it before Him, ...just ask Him.

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and with no reproach, and it shall be given to him. Jas 1:5

Blessings,

Gene
 
Maybe I missed something, just what is the meaning of Him saying He did not condemn her and then telling her to go?

What's the problem, like I said it works for me and incidentally I've heard other people give the same response, so if you can't/don't receive it, no worries mate.

Blessings,

Gene


24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.

17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.

Gene, if the accusers of the woman were accurate, if they really had a true case of a person caught in adultery Yeshua would not have let her go but would have permitted her to be stoned to death. What you're missing is that the Pharisees were "testing" Yeshua and did not really care about her guilt. Because of their technical flaw in presenting their accusation against her, they disqualified themselves from being prosecutors and executors.

The purpose of the first coming was not to police the world for sins but to die for the sins of the world and therefore he says he will not condemn her.

Perhaps you could think this through a little more thoroughly than your comment reveals - "its good enough for me".

By claiming that Yeshua forgave the woman of adultery Yeshua would have broken the Law. The Pharisaic objection to the messianic claims of Yeshua would have been declared false and they could have closed their case against Him. The fact is that Yeshua is sinless and kept the Law of Moses (613 not just 10) perfectly.
 
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