HisManySongs
Passed on, February 28, 2022
I agree and have deleted the post
Revelation
- Thread starter MMurphy
- Start date
I believe the preterists have come in force... don't forget the quoted text in Major's response to them.
No- I did not... 'just passing through' said that the time of the gentiles ended in 1967. I responded by saying 'if the time of the gentiles is fulfilled then no more gentiles could enter'. I wasn't saying that no one else could be saved. Go up and read the posts above it...You will see what I was responding to.
TC
Hey I did not say that- I was responding to someone esles post so please put it back up.
You apparently did not read what I posted...I was responding to someone elses claim that the time of the gentiles was fulfilled. And I was giving them the ramifications of such a statement! So read it again: Notice the 'if'...
"I hate to break it to you but if the 'time of the gentiles' ended in 1967- that means no more gentiles enter the kingdom. The words fulfilled mean; filled up completed
plērōma
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
That means if you are born after 1967 you have no way to enter the Kingdom. He has shut the door. You might want to reconsider that perhaps the time of the gentiles has not yet ended so those we are preaching that God hath granted unto the Gentiles repentance unto life' don't get upset that the time of the gentiles has completed...? Or should I go tell people it is too late for them? Also...where does it say there will be 'overtime' in Scripture? I don't see that passage..."
Is that more clear for you? sheesh pay more attention folks...
TC
HisManySongs
Passed on, February 28, 2022
Revelations was given to the Apostle John not John the Baptist.
Huntingteckel
Inactive
Not this crap again...
As for Revelation, I really don't know what I believed about it. I'd be concerned about it being written in 97 A.D. though (if that's the right year). Seems to me that wouldn't have been in the lifetime of the people with Jesus, so who would have wrote it? I haven't really thought about this before so I would appreciate it if someone cleared it up.
@town crying - I like your screen name. Why did you choose it? I'm on the road but am interested in reading your posts later
Correct. I'm still in shock they cut Johns head off.
So then you are telling us History is wrong, the Six Day War never happened and/or Jesus is a liar?
Jesus speaking,
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Luke 21:24
You need to read more history, ...the first part of what Jesus predicted started in 70AD, the Jews were scattered all over the world, then on May 18, 1948 they were allowed to return to their promised land and the Nation of Israel was reborn, a partial fulfillment of the Ezk 37 Dry Bones prophecy, then the Six Day War came in June of '67, during this short war General Moshe Dayan was given strict orders to NOT take Jerusalem, but he saw the opportunity, ...the IDF had completely destroyed the Egyptian Air Force in the first day of the war and was pushing their armies back to the Red Sea and off of the Sinai Peninsula, also they had liberated the Suez Canal, ...Nasser sent false info to Hussein of Syria saying he was winning the war and when the IDF turned to attack Syria they saw their strength, instead of a decimated foe like Nasser had told them, and it threw them into confusion, ...so, Moshe, disobeyed his orders and took the Old Town and the Temple Mount, Jerusalem WAS liberated from the Gentile (Arab) occupiers, ...history doesn't lie, men lie to change history, ...but history doesn't lie.
So like I said, HISTORY records (it doesn't matter if you believe it or not, that just places you in the same deluded category with them that are also saying today there wasn't a Holocaust) that in June of 1967 Jerusalem WAS liberated from the usurpers, but, ...God in His Infinite Mercy and Grace towards me, moved in the affairs of men and convinced the Israeli Government to relinquish their control so that in July of 1986 I could/would be born again and become a part of His Church and a recipient of His Kingdom, .......can I get an AMEN!!!
Gene
MMurphy
Inactive
Perhaps, but is sure seems to fit the bill. Look, I don't claim to be a scholar or a prophet, its just the descriptions fit well with First Century Rome. Also, as the term "Antichrist" is used in John's Epistles, it seems to be more descriptive of a class of people rather than a particular person. It also has a very imminent tone.
The imminence you speak of was the same imminence that the first churches felt. It continues today---by the grace of God. Just because there are parallels doesn't mean that the times of the Gentiles is completed.
The Antichrist is described as a man---in all references---and not as a people.
MMurphy
Inactive
2 John 1:7--Many deceivers have gone out into the world. They do not believe that Jesus Christ came to earth in a real body. Such a person is a deceiver and an antichrist.
I don't mean to say that there is no such thing as "The" Antichrist, but John's words indicate that there are also others who disparage Christ and are therefore antichrists, which was all I was saying.
Good. God says there are many antichrists, but the word also teaches us that there is coming a man---THE Antichrist---a particular man who will try to take the place of Jesus Christ.
It is an assumption that John of Revelation is John the apostle because of what Jesus said:
Luke 9:27 (KJV)
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Tradition says everyone died a martyr's death except John the Apostle. The fact is we don't know for sure as "John" was as common a name then as it is now. One thing is certain, it was John the Baptist, because he was only six months older than Jesus, was born around 7 or 8 BC which would have put him over 103 years old when Revelation was penned IF he hadn't lost his head to Herod!
Luke 9:9 (KJV)
And Herod said, John have I beheaded: but who is this, of whom I hear such things? And he desired to see him.
This Herod was "Antipas", the son of Herod the Great (the baby killer) and Malthace. I hope this helps.
MMurphy
Inactive
Oh come on E, you said NONE of the references referred to a people, and I show you a scripture that is on its face referring to a people and I don't even get an acknowledgement of it?
Since Genesis 3:15 the devil has been waiting his turn at bat - so to speak - and so he's had to have a man in the wings ever since because he doesn't know God's plan. Cain was a type of antichrist because he killed the line of Able who may have been the line of Christ. He failed so he worked on more bad guys... all throughout history the devil had been trying to kill the line of Jesus. Of course he failed. When his time is at hand he'll have the final antichrist, the one spoke of throughout the scriptures, rise up, possess him, declare himself God in the temple (yet to be built) and make war with the 144,000. An antichrist is alive and well today, the only question is, is he THE antichrist... only time will tell.
Come on? What did I refuse to acknowledge? there is a difference between "an" antichrist and "THE" Antichrist. Many---one.
The bible tells us that there are many antichrists---those who deny Jesus Christ. The bible also distinctly teaches that there will arise a ruler in the last days who is referred to as THE Antichrist. Do you deny what the bible teaches?
2 John 1:7 (NLT)
I say this because many deceivers have gone out into the world. They deny that Jesus Christ came
in a real body. Such a person is a deceiver and an antichrist.
1 John 2:22 (NLT)
And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.
1 John 4:3 (NLT)
But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here.
THAT spirit of the Antichrist will enter a world ruler who will come and figure largely in destructive world events in the Tribulation age. He is also referred to as "the lawless one".
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (NLT)
Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness
is revealed—the one who brings destruction. 4 He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:8-9 (NLT)
Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming. This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles.
He is also referred to as "the beast":
Revelation 13:5-8 (NLT)
Then the beast was allowed to speak great blasphemies against God. And he was given authority to do whatever he wanted for forty-two months. 6 And he spoke terrible words of blasphemy against God, slandering his name and his dwelling—that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 And the beast was allowed to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And he was given authority to rule over every tribe and people and language and nation. 8 And all the people who belong to this world worshiped the beast. They are the ones whose names were not written in the Book of Life that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered before the world was made.
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Agreed!
Consider 2 Thess. 2:3-4........
3 "Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. "
As stated clearly in the Word of God, the coming A/C is a MAN. The way it is written, it is impossible to be anything other than a MAN! The Greek grammar will not allow it my friend.
Revelation was a book that was originally not going to be made part of the canon.
Irenaeus did not want it included as he felt it was not for the laity. The New Testament is only one quarter of all the texts that early Christians had available. And many felt all the texts were inspired, but church fathers decided otherwise.
It is because of this noninclusive nature that we are missing pieces that would help illuminate more clearly the passages of Revelation. It is also helpful that all things in scripture were written contextually. Pulling stray lines out will not give you what you need to know to understand. This was the big issue the King had with the teachers in the temple.
It is still an issue today.
Irenaeus did not want it included as he felt it was not for the laity. The New Testament is only one quarter of all the texts that early Christians had available. And many felt all the texts were inspired, but church fathers decided otherwise.
It is because of this noninclusive nature that we are missing pieces that would help illuminate more clearly the passages of Revelation. It is also helpful that all things in scripture were written contextually. Pulling stray lines out will not give you what you need to know to understand. This was the big issue the King had with the teachers in the temple.
It is still an issue today.