Rightly Dividing vs My Strong Opinion

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You are right. For me though, rather have a discussion rather than a debate. Debate causes fighting, and in my own life had just about enough fighting with others. It use to be really really strong to fight others scripture vs scripture, doctrinal disputes.

If we can not love each other because of doctrine when Jesus Christ has had the victory and are fighting we are tearing each other apart and do not believe that is a good thing at all.

We are not war against other people but instead to share the great news that Jesus Christ has had the victory over sin, Satan, death, and the grave, in love.

Chris1 to answer your question about my opinion of what love is. It is kind, gentle, patient, not rude, not boastful, rejoices not injustice but when justice wins out.

Chris1 it has been for me known to fight in the past four or five years worth of being a Christian with others, but also with in self. Spirit vs Flesh and sometimes my flesh still gets me, though try to walk by the spirit every day in being thankful to God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

One other thing is in my personal life have always had trouble with people trying be dominant or seem to be authoritative rather than trying to really talk to me, instead by reading text seems they are talking at me.
 
MatthewG - I enjoy actual debate, but a debate has tons of rules by which those debating must comply, unlike discussion, which is far more open and can be more combative, especially online.

My preference is for debate, or discussion that has the same tone as a debate would have. I don't like fighting or name calling or anything along those lines, but I will always enjoy a good discussion... so long as there's no abuse.

As a Christian sometimes it's difficult to know exactly where to draw the line, that I do find. I'm not a passive person, but nor am I aggressive either... I'm somewhere inbetween. I enjoy laughing, and talking with others though.

I think online it's difficult to express whatever tone would be in your voice should you be speaking in person, almost impossible at times although I think there are some few who are good at it, but that's fairly uncommon. I think writing is an art, and can be done well though..
 
I’m going to stop participating for the sake of,

1 it’s the internet

2 people have all kinds of opinions and ideas

3 people can be condemning as well as have the uncanny ability to look down upon others.

Did we forget how it about love, love towards God and love towards others.

Have expressed my views enough here for all to see which has to me personally been fun, for in my flesh it can seem I’m aggorant, and rude.

If you knew me in real life a long with my story and understanding and accepting me for just being human with flaws and my understanding for God and the Lord Jesus Christ maybe you still try to convienvce me that have errored in the faith.

My views have been stated, and do not have any requirements to state or prove anything, you guys are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ just like myself.

So am done.

God bless and have a good day.

Maybe it is NOT the .......

1. Internet or
2. People have all kinds of opinions and idea or
3. People can be condemning as well as have the uncanny ability to look down upon others.

Just maybe it is someone else my friend?????

Matthew, with all due respect and Christian love to you......you can not possibly expect to say the things you have said which are not Christian doctrines, and are not Biblical and have the Bible believing Christians here just stand by and not challenge your personal opinions.

Because we LOVE the Lord and love HIs written Word, we must point out to you where you are in disagreement with the Scriptures in your "opinions".

One of the more obviouse reasons that we as Christians do not like to correct those in who say things that are not Biblical and in some cases not rooted in Christianity is that we have inadvertently bought into the tolerant, relative morality of our culture.

We mistakenly think that love means accepting the person, heresy and false teachings, with no moral judgments about what is said. We tend to do that because LOVE overshadows truth and to be in unity we ignore and move on. But, God’s Word gives us absolute standards for right and wrong teaching. If we see someone violating biblical standards, he is heading for the cliff. The consequence of sowing our own thoughts is dangerous, which isn’t pretty.

Galatians 6:8 ......
"For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

My dear friend, I know this is difficult for you but......... Love requires attempting to correct.
 
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Ah here you go crossnote


God bless you guys, this is my teacher. It all starts at 7:00 minutes in.



Much love!

My old ways would be to fight scripture vs scripture and ya ya ya


but that way has died... with Christ Jesus.


Research and you can use discernment.
I'm supposed to watch an hour and 45min on some sermon on eschatology?
Maybe you can give me a recap?
 
You are right. For me though, rather have a discussion rather than a debate. Debate causes fighting, and in my own life had just about enough fighting with others. It use to be really really strong to fight others scripture vs scripture, doctrinal disputes.

If we can not love each other because of doctrine when Jesus Christ has had the victory and are fighting we are tearing each other apart and do not believe that is a good thing at all.

We are not war against other people but instead to share the great news that Jesus Christ has had the victory over sin, Satan, death, and the grave, in love.

Chris1 to answer your question about my opinion of what love is. It is kind, gentle, patient, not rude, not boastful, rejoices not injustice but when justice wins out.

Chris1 it has been for me known to fight in the past four or five years worth of being a Christian with others, but also with in self. Spirit vs Flesh and sometimes my flesh still gets me, though try to walk by the spirit every day in being thankful to God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

One other thing is in my personal life have always had trouble with people trying be dominant or seem to be authoritative rather than trying to really talk to me, instead by reading text seems they are talking at me.

Hmm. This has the earmark of what I have seen in the thinking of so many others. When they can't defend their position and beliefs from a solid foundation of verifiable evidence, they instead choose to hold to their beliefs regardless of the presented evidence and proofs that effectively counter their claims. So, they sometimes tuck tail and run, or stick to their guns of irrationality and denial for its own sake.

Now, what's difficult to nail down is to answer the questions: What's the basis for such? Is it fleshly pride that builds such walls of stubbornness to resist what can be verified with a little study, or is it the influence of the enemy of our souls...or both? Are there other possible, alternative explanations?

I get the impression that these types see love as being acceptance of them and all their beliefs and behaviors, such as is the sentiment in the groupings of perverse passions communities. A lack of acceptance of any and all that comes out of them signals to them that we are hateful and mean. This warped and evil sense of what love really is points out a horrible corruption in modern perceptions of what constitutes TRUE love for others, and each other.

Oh well, some will, some won't....next....

MM
 
Please read slowly and carefully

So there were many questions asked to me.
Do not remember the all, but going to run down what was remembered.

The Lord Yeshua Christ the Son of God of Nazareth came down from heaven, born of a virgin, and lived and walked on this earth.

He came specifically while alive, for the nation of Israel/ Children of Israel, and he told his disciples before resurrection to go to the lost sheep of Israel.

During this time, Yeshua did many miracles, and the disciples constantly wavered back and forth even after the resurrection at (first).

While Yeshua Christ was doing his earthly ministry, Yeshua told his disciples about what a wicked generation they where living and even told them that the wicked generation was going to be destroyed. At the His return, and told his disciples that the generation then was going to pass away when what he talked about happened. You can see those text in Matthew 24, and Luke somewhere.

So after resurrection, we have Paul who comes on the scene which who was a Chosen Apsotle, who wrote a good portion of the New Testament Letters.

Now a question that would be asked here, is how important is context for you as an individual?

Just about each letter has an introduction expressing thanks be to God and our Lord Yeshua Christ, peace, grace and mercy be to you -

It also almost always stated who is being wrote to in the introduction. In time believe those points can get lost and maybe even forgotten about.

Now remember Yeshua Christ stated: this generation shall not pass away until all these things come about speaking about His return.

There are people who were not of faith, who wrote about Yeshua for an example a man named Josephus and believe those historical text can be found today.

So Paul was still living in the generation that had not yet passed away and even according to him he in Romans 1:8 claiming to have reached the whole world (the inhabitants that he could reach that he wrote to.)

So you have Paul writing to people back then ; you have The people of Colosse, you have people of thessalonica, people of Ephesians, people of Galatia, Gods elect Sactttered Abroad (1 Peter 1), the seven church’s of Asia Minor.

All of these are creditable and validated sources in the scriptures and are letters that where written.

For me everything has its place starting from Chapter 1, and context is very important.

Believe in today’s world people can get lost (not in the sense of Salvation and believing and trusting in Christ Yeshua and God.)

But lost in the sense of what is really being said and told by the Lord Yeshua and his disciples and apply it to themselves today.

Not to say that there are not applicable meanings for us today when we read scripture and learn and grow in faith and trusting God.

The second thing is this.

Believe that since Yeshua told his disciples that the generation would not pass away until those things He spoke about would happen, for me, I trust Him in what he told his disciples.

Now I’ll be honest and forward with you, I personally can’t explain the revelation, for it is to difficult for me to do so. Though do believe that this revelation and all the other letters before hand were always supporting the people in to understanding to continue to have faith for the day of the Lord was coming.

Remeber when the disciples said Lord look at these buildings aren’t they beautiful, and Yeshua told them (his body would be broken and raised again) He also told them that the building would be torn down.

Believe this temple was torn down in 70ad, and that was the return of the Lord - and Gods promise of wrath poured out on the wicked generation that worshipped idols and had fallen away, and where trying to teach false things and get people to not stay in faith and trusting in God. That Yeshua came and took the 1st church that was spoken about then.

(this is not even suppose to be mentioned on here please do not delete because it is part of the biblical narrative of Yeshua returning for his bride the 1st church).

Now with this all being said, this my belief that everything is done, we live by faith and hope in God, and if you are a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ you can be a child of God, there are promises God makes and they are all true, you can have a relationship and a prayer life and learn and grow in your knowledge of Christ Yeshua for there is infinite wisdom that comes from Him, and the The Father.

This was very long but must be done for the sake of clarification, no I can not personally prove revelation is over, but you can trust Yeshua Christ in have being able to do what he had said to his disciples back then when he was alive.

Thank you for reading and hope it’s not to complicated to understand.
 
Alive as in walking around with disciples, Yeshua was resurrected by God, of course and is still alive today in the hearts and minds of believers :p. By the Holy Spirit/spirit of Christ given.
 
Please read slowly and carefully

So there were many questions asked to me.
Do not remember the all, but going to run down what was remembered.

As a help, you can go back through the threads and see them all rather than relying on memory. I know mine needs help at times...

He came specifically while alive, for the nation of Israel/ Children of Israel, and he told his disciples before resurrection to go to the lost sheep of Israel.

Yes, and yet He also cast out a demon from the daughter of a woman who was a Gentile (Greek), because of her faith.

During this time, Yeshua did many miracles, and the disciples constantly wavered back and forth even after the resurrection at (first).

Jesus failed to measure down to their expectations for an earthly kingdom, with them in the top leadership, under His rule, on this earth, in those days. It didn't pan out that way, so they were greatly disenchanted until they began to see the bigger picture Jesus painted for them.

While Yeshua Christ was doing his earthly ministry, Yeshua told his disciples about what a wicked generation they where living and even told them that the wicked generation was going to be destroyed. At the His return, and told his disciples that the generation then was going to pass away when what he talked about happened. You can see those text in Matthew 24, and Luke somewhere.

So, when and where do you personally think all that happen as described in Matthew 24? Can you substantiate every one of those things described therein as allegedly having already transpired? You can take your time. We can wait and see what you can present.

So after resurrection, we have Paul who comes on the scene which who was a Chosen Apsotle, who wrote a good portion of the New Testament Letters.

Well, him with the help of Luke, who was a Gentile.

Now a question that would be asked here, is how important is context for you as an individual?

Context is a part of understanding the setting for any and all texts and words, along with their definition since many words can have multiple definitions that can radically alter the meaning of the text when misapplied.

Something that you appear to have missed in your previous posts is something else I had pointed out to you. There are many statements made throughout the OT and NT that have stand-alone, universal applications and meaning. We all make use of such in our writings, so it makes no sense to disallow the ancient writers the same consideration and freedom of literary style and content.

It also almost always stated who is being wrote to in the introduction. In time believe those points can get lost and maybe even forgotten about.

Perhaps others out there somewhere forget about to whom the letters were addressed. What I've asked of you is who taught you that it is a credible practice to limit the scope of influence in those letters to the original audience. There are serious consequences to that dogma you appear to have overlooked, and I therefore ask that you address this. I'm not bullying you, just asking for a reason for your faith in that ideology...if I have adequately captured your beliefs along that line of thinking.

Now remember Yeshua Christ stated: this generation shall not pass away until all these things come about speaking about His return.

Can you explain to us why you think that Jesus was specifically speaking of "that" generation, standing next to Him, at that time? I can write or speak something similar to you, speaking of a future generation in relation to some things foreseen, and it be talking about a generation not yet born. That would not violate the very literary/lingual speech Jesus made at that time, to those people. How do you know they lacked an understanding that He was talking about a future generation not yet born? Hw would you substantiate that?

What you appear to have missed is that the disciples asked Him of what they knew were future events, but you seem to think that you have something upon which to rely on that would demand a constraint to Jesus' words as referring to the generation standing there at that moment in time. Where does the text indicate that Jesus swirled His fingers around, gesturing that He was talking about them and all the others down the hill? If I were speaking of future events and a future generation, it would not be a grammatical violation for me to say "this" in reference to a generation that is the subject of my future prediction.

This is why I have said before that getting hung up on some of the weaknesses inherently a part of our English translations can and does lead to gross errors with interpretation.

So, I look forward to your clarifications and substantiations.

Thanks

MM
 
Hello Musicmaster sir.

You have asked me some questions you desire to know from me.

Yes He did cast out the demon of the Greek woman. Yet He called her a dog.

Yes afterwards the disciples received the holy spirit and realized in thinking about about what Yeshua Christ had done for them and went outwards again - Paul being one whom went to the dogs - the greeks/gentiles.

Matthew 24 describes a lot of what happened to the disciples in the book of Acts, also in the book of Revelation. Going to respond respectfully by saying no to your question of can you substantiate of everyone of those things that have done happened. -

The question really here would be, is Yeshua Christ lying to them ? You have to make that decision for yourself.​
Interesting did not know Luke was a gentile. Where can we find that out at?

Thank you for your assessment of context.

You ask me why are introductions necessary? Because they are otherwise, you wouldn't have them in your bible.

You ask me why do you think Jesus Christ is speaking to that generation? Because He is.

Here is an example:

Matthew 12:​
38Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.” 39 Jesus replied, “A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
- They had the old testament scriptures to look at when Yeshua had replied to them. Calling them a wicked and adulterous generation that is demanding a sign.​
40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.​
41The men of Nineveh will stand at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now One greater than Jonah is here. 42The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and now One greater than Solomon is here.​
43When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it passes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ On its return, it finds the house vacant, swept clean, and put in order. 45Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and dwell there; and the final plight of that man is worse than the first. So will it be with this wicked generation.”
The question you have to ask yourself - is this generation then or now - some people will say in some cases this a two-fold prophecy but for me do not believe that the Lord Yeshua Christ was a two-fold kind of person.​
He was straight to the point with these people he is dealing with
Which was the Pharisees, and scribes there who standing there asking him for a sign.
If Yeshua said, generation of generations or something to that effect rather than single every time it would mean that it is for generations in the future.

Thank you for your responses and asking of questions.

What are your thoughts on all of these matters?
 
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Hello Musicmaster sir.

You have asked me some questions you desire to know from me.

Yes He did cast out the demon of the Greek woman. Yet He called her a dog.

MG, I hope you don't mind me pointing out that what you said is wrong.

It was the young daughter of the woman who had the demon, so the mother was pleading on her daughter's behalf, and she still received what was reserved for the Jews. There is so much we can draw from that imagery, but none of it is really pertinent in this discussion.

Yes afterwards the disciples received the holy spirit and realized in thinking about about what Yeshua Christ had done for them and went outwards again - Paul being one whom went to the dogs - the greeks/gentiles.

Can you show to us where Paul or any of the other disciples referred to Gentiles as dogs?

That Jesus made that reference in His response to the mother, that doesn't necessarily equate to the Lord and His disciples looking down upon Gentiles since we know from the scriptures that the Lord died for all the world, not just the Jews. All He was saying is that His intended purpose was to work with the house of Israel, and to pour out good things to them as the signs they sought as evidence for who He is. Calling a people "dogs" doesn't carry with it the same connotation it would today to call some race of humans "dogs." To assume such a similarity is to assume from silence.

Matthew 24 describes a lot of what happened to the disciples in the book of Acts, also in the book of Revelation. Going to respond respectfully by saying no to your question of can you substantiate of everyone of those things that have done happened. -

The question really here would be, is Yeshua Christ lying to them ? You have to make that decision for yourself.​

You can't rightfully question someone else on the basis of Jesus's words being a lie when you won't even try to substantiate that what He said has actually already been fulfilled. You have assumed that what Jesus said was going to happen, within the constraints of your own understanding, has already come to pass. You are assuming that I'm wrong in thinking that it's still yet to happen.

What is the basis for that assumption? If you can't show how all those things have happened in the past, then why would you blindly believe they had? What Jesus said is true. The difference between you and me is the timeframe. You believe you're right, so you must have some basis for defending your belief. Right? I mean, am I being unreasonable in my asking for verification? If so, how? I want to change my beliefs if you have good and compelling reason for what you say that you believe.

So, please, show me the truth of it all if you believe you are right and I am wrong. It always matters when one or both people in a conversation are wrong. Being wrong is a bad thing, so there must be truth that one or both need to discover. Please show us.

MM
 
Hello MusicMaster,

Thank you for your doctrinal report of everything is wrong you see within the confines of my trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and God.

You are not going to get much more out of me at this point because there is nothing for me to prove for have been honest and open about my belief system from the start. You have the right to question me, and even accuse me of being wrong, and I am willing to admit maybe that is right, I am wrong.

You are free to assess me up and down, and left and right. Still going to stand on what has already been said. If I never meet your standard for a Christian that will never bother me.

Honestly did not read all your questionings to me at this point for the conversation is getting played out and dull.

~ Do I think I am better than you? no. no I would never think that but however it is best for me to choose the way of the Lord and how he would desire me to go ahead and just walk on away and let you be to yourself for you are 100% responsible for yourself and your relationship with God and how you decide to treat other people.

The dog part, yes I'll answer you...

Mark 7
15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

24 And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid.

25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:

26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

Right here is where He basically says something very offensive - Let the Children first be filled; for it is not meet to take the children's bread and // cast it unto the dogs.

To the Jewish people of Israel anyone who was not part of that group was basically beneath them, that did not have compassion on them. Even with this very offensive saying that Jesus Christ had said - she still looked passed what was said, and answered Him.


28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.

What this greek woman responds back with is profound even after what Jesus Christ had just said to her / by saying that it was not right for Jesus to cast any of the bread to the dogs. /

She said yes Lord but even the 'dogs' the people that are looked down upon -- eat the scraps of what falls off the table.


29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.

Because of what is said, to Him; He shows compassion for she showed faith and trusting in the Lord for hearing about the miracles that He had done.

30 And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.

31 And again, departing from the coasts of Tyre and Sidon, he came unto the sea of Galilee, through the midst of the coasts of Decapolis.

32 And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech; and they beseech him to put his hand upon him.

33 And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue;

34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.

35 And straightway his ears were opened, and the string of his tongue was loosed, and he spake plain.

36 And he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it;

37 And were beyond measure astonished, saying, He hath done all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak.

Thinking about it was very Odd for Jewish people to even associate with women outside of their own blood. Jesus Christ was always doing amazing things. There was another time with the woman at the well and the disciples come up on him in the sense of 'why you talking with this woman'

God bless you and your family, and everyone here on this forumsite.

Life is very short. The Eternal is going to be forever. You all each have a purpose.
 
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Hello MusicMaster,

Thank you for your doctrinal report of everything is wrong you see within the confines of my trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and God.

MG, you really don't need to play the victim card with me. I said nothing about your trust in the Lord. What I called into question are your statements for what you believe from the scriptures. If you recall, I also asked many questions, along with observing your being wrong about what the text said. I even pointed out your error that you can go into the scriptures and verify. Are you willing to do that, or do you prefer to ignore the errors you make that are pointed out to you? I'm just asking.

You are not going to get much more out of me at this point because there is nothing for me to prove for have been honest and open about my belief system from the start. You have the right to question me, and even accuse me of being wrong, and I am willing to admit maybe that is right, I am wrong.

If only you understood how fascinating this all is to me. My curiosity drives me to ask questions, trying to get down to the root of other's beliefs, and your getting defensive about it doesn't speak well for the stability of your beliefs. If you have reason to believe what you state, then please show us why you believe what you have stated. Why does that drive you to pretend you are a victim?

Tell you what, if you wish to leave us with the impression that you don't want to reveal the reasons for your beliefs because they are the beliefs you have adopted for yourself regardless of the possibility you may be wrong, then just say the word. I'll leave it at that and not pester you with questions. Rational belief always has reasoning behind it for the possessor of the belief. That's just as natural and organic as the trees that make up a forest. I've encountered very few in this world who hold to beliefs that they cannot share with others the reasons as to why they believe what they hold dear. Now, if I were still at university and encountering WOKE kids, then I could say I'm encountering many kids who believe things without caring as to why they believe what they hold to be truth.

So, it's up to you. I haven't judged you personally, and I have not said anything derogatory about your belief in God. Root cause investigations is the core of my profession as an Engineer. My inquiries seem to be making you nervous and unsure, so I will back off if that's what you wish.

MM
 
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