Salvation

[ModeratorTeam]

A Friendly Reminder from the Moderator Team:

The Christian Forum Site exists for the following reasons:

To provide a friendly place for believers to discuss Biblical, theological and social issues in a rational manner.

In our rules we state:

Rule 2.1 Common courtesy and civil dialogue is expected from all participants. Common courtesy is a generally understood concept and too broad to fully define here. In short, if you have doubt on whether you should say something, DON'T!

Rule 2.2 If someone disagrees with you do not immediately jump to the conclusion that they are not truly saved just because they disagree, there are differences of opinion in translating Biblical doctrine.

If this discussion begins to violate the above then we will need to take corrective action.


(file *3)

 

[PreciousMessage]

Civil can be in the eye of the beholder.

A Friendly Reminder from the Moderator Team:

The Christian Forum Site exists for the following reasons:

To provide a friendly place for believers to discuss Biblical, theological and social issues in a rational manner.

In our rules we state:

Rule 2.1 Common courtesy and civil dialogue is expected from all participants. Common courtesy is a generally understood concept and too broad to fully define here. In short, if you have doubt on whether you should say something, DON'T!

Rule 2.2 If someone disagrees with you do not immediately jump to the conclusion that they are not truly saved just because they disagree, there are differences of opinion in translating Biblical doctrine.

If this discussion begins to violate the above then we will need to take corrective action.


(file *3)

Good rules, a friendly response!

Well stated, "Civil" can also be in the perception of the reader, who is in total disagreement with the other's viewpoint. Therefore can be a subconscious negative, uncivil reaction, to another's teaching, perceiving uncivility.

Also, I agree, no one is to judge one's salvation, only God knows the heart. One may view salvation, the objective and subjective facts of it differently, but does not denote one is saying the other is lost.

As a matter of fact, Christ came to save the lost, not to condemn them, according to the sound teaching of scripture.

Something I read a while back, surely for my sake!

"EXTREME sensitiveness is overweening selfishness coupled with great weakness. Sensitiveness, we mean, which is always imagining personal slights, neglects, or insults. …
IF the sensitive individual did not think so much of self, he would not care what folks said, without imagining that they did say what they didn’t say. If they were strong in character, had strong faith in God, or were absorbed in their legitimate work, they would have no time for surmises." End Quote

I thought this was very insightful into the human condition, me being the chief of sinners.



Thanks for the rules, a good reminder for all.



blessings to you in Christ,
John

 

[Dusty]

No condemnation

John 4:27-42



The Disciples Rejoin Jesus

27Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, "What do you want?" or "Why are you talking with her?"

28Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, 29"Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ[a]?" 30They came out of the town and made their way toward him.
31Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."
32But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."
33Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"
34"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35Do you not say, 'Four months more and then the harvest'? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37Thus the saying 'One sows and another reaps' is true. 38I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor."

Many Samaritans Believe

39Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me everything I ever did." 40So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41And because of his words many more became believers.
42They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."


The reason for this message about the Samaritan woman was that Jesus went beyond the barriers of that time . He spoke to a woman and she was a Samaritan woman. He wanted us to see that traditions that we hold on to can be broken so we also should be willing to go where we have never been before.

He broke the barrier of discrimination and prejudice by talking to this woman. We are the salt and light of the world so we are designed to impact people no matter their background ethnic race or culture.

Jesus did not condemn the woman even though He knew all about her. Evan the disciples when they returned and saw Jesus talking to this woman did not even ask any questions or condemn her . So how many times have we gone somewhere and something about some one or what they did or said did not sit well with what we thought are our traditions and we said something that could hurt that person. Maybe even a new Christian. Do you think that person will want to return again ?

After the encounter with Jesus the woman left her water jug and ran into town to tell people that there is one who can give living water. What greater testimony than that, that most of the Samaritans were saved because of one encounter with the Master.

We need to break down our traditional barriers and take decisive action and ask the Lord of the Harvest where He wants us to go.

 

[smellycat]

He wants you to go to heaven,and by the word of God.and faith in jesus.no shortcuts ,no excuses,even when influenced from evil spirits.motives and manipulation condemn us.:read-bible:

 

[PreciousMessage]

God condemns no man

He wants you to go to heaven,and by the word of God.and faith in jesus.no shortcuts ,no excuses,even when influenced from evil spirits.motives and manipulation condemn us.:read-bible:

Amen. Even Jesus said that hell was "prepared for the devil and his angels," not men (Matthew 25:41). Why, because Christ Jesus "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth ... who gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:4,6).

blessings in Christ,
John

 

[PreciousMessage]

living water

John 4:27-42



The Disciples Rejoin Jesus

27Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, "What do you want?" or "Why are you talking with her?"

28Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, 29"Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ[a]?" 30They came out of the town and made their way toward him.
31Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."
32But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."
33Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"
34"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35Do you not say, 'Four months more and then the harvest'? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37Thus the saying 'One sows and another reaps' is true. 38I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor." Many Samaritans Believe

39Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me everything I ever did." 40So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41And because of his words many more became believers.
42They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."


The reason for this message about the Samaritan woman was that Jesus went beyond the barriers of that time . He spoke to a woman and she was a Samaritan woman. He wanted us to see that traditions that we hold on to can be broken so we also should be willing to go where we have never been before.

He broke the barrier of discrimination and prejudice by talking to this woman. We are the salt and light of the world so we are designed to impact people no matter their background ethnic race or culture.

Jesus did not condemn the woman even though He knew all about her. Evan the disciples when they returned and saw Jesus talking to this woman did not even ask any questions or condemn her . So how many times have we gone somewhere and something about some one or what they did or said did not sit well with what we thought are our traditions and we said something that could hurt that person. Maybe even a new Christian. Do you think that person will want to return again ?

After the encounter with Jesus the woman left her water jug and ran into town to tell people that there is one who can give living water. What greater testimony that, that most of the Samaritans were saved because of one encounter with the Master.

We need to break down our traditional barriers and take decisive action and ask the Lord of the Harvest where He wants us to go.

Amen. May the longing of each heart be that of the woman at the well, who said, “Give me of this water.†There are thirsty souls everywhere, and thirsting to death for the water that is in their Father’s well, yet they will not take of it and drink.

Often, we can hurt one another with our words, may God have mercy! Yet, it is also true that we may speak beautiful things of God and it is offensive to them. After all, "to those who are disobedient, ... Has become the chief cornerstone, and ... a rock of offense." 1 Peter 2:7,8. yet ... "whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.†Rom. 9:30-33.

blessings, John

 

[Dusty]

The Lord of the Harvest

Hey John,

That is great and you know there is so much we can gleen from that passage ( refer to John 4:27-42 as quoted above )

Our pastor brought out another aspect yesterday. For us here who have the seasons, this is harvest time. The farmer gathers all the crops from a bountiful year. And in this passage in verse 35, Christ talks about harvest time. Jesus is gaining momentum here and tells us that the harvest is plentiful and the fields are ripe.

Some of the harvest priciples:

1--- Jar of predjudice.... We are the salt and light .... designed to impact people. We have to be like the Samaritan woman and leave our jar behind. She met Jesus in verse 28 and found that the things of this world will grow strangely dim in the light of His Glory and Grace. She found the living water.

2--- Jar of their own needs.... The disciples in verse 31 were more concerned with thier needs and searching for food for their bodies but Jesus told them "I have food you know nothing about" ." My food is to do the will of the Father" In other words..... Seek God first and He will take care of you.

3---- Jar of vision... Verse 35 He tells us to open our eyes and look. Sometimes even though we have our physical eyes open our spiritual eyes are not open. Don't limit God. The Harvest time is now. We must work for the Master as the time is right and the fields are ripe and ready for picking. One might sow and the next one reaps. We are all designed for different tasks.

4---- Jar of tradition... Traditional barriers have to be broken down and we live in a country or society where many cultures are the melting pot of the world ( At least that is true here in Toronto ). We must be willing to get out of our comfort zone, make a decision to be like Jesus and and go where we have never gone before.

5... Jar of decison.. We have to decide like the Samaritan woman to leave our jar ... go and tell people of the city about Jesus , make a decisive decision and take action. Ask the Lord of the Harvest what He would have you do.

 

[GordonSlocum]

Thanks for your determination and sharing, till next time.

John

Good Moring John,

Perhaps Easton's definition will clearly explain what I am saying.



Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary - Cite This Source
Faith
Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true (Phil. 1:27; 2 Thess. 2:13). Its primary idea is trust. A thing is true, and therefore worthy of trust. It admits of many degrees up to full assurance of faith, in accordance with the evidence on which it rests. Faith is the result of teaching (Rom. 10:14-17). Knowledge is an essential element in all faith, and is sometimes spoken of as an equivalent to faith (John 10:38; 1 John 2:3). Yet the two are distinguished in this respect, that faith includes in it assent, which is an act of the will in addition to the act of the understanding. Assent to the truth is of the essence of faith, and the ultimate ground on which our assent to any revealed truth rests is the veracity of God. Historical faith is the apprehension of and assent to certain statements which are regarded as mere facts of history. Temporary faith is that state of mind which is awakened in men (e.g., Felix) by the exhibition of the truth and by the influence of religious sympathy, or by what is sometimes styled the common operation of the Holy Spirit. Saving faith is so called because it has eternal life inseparably connected with it. It cannot be better defined than in the words of the Assembly's Shorter Catechism: "Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for salvation, as he is offered to us in the gospel." The object of saving faith is the whole revealed Word of God. Faith accepts and believes it as the very truth most sure. But the special act of faith which unites to Christ has as its object the person and the work of the Lord Jesus Christ

(emphasis mine)

Gordon

 

[PreciousMessage]

"The FAITH" is CHRIST JESUS

Good Moring John,

Perhaps Easton's definition will cleary explain what I am saying.


Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary - Cite This Source
Faith
Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true (Phil. 1:27; 2 Thess. 2:13). Its primary idea is trust. A thing is true, and therefore worthy of trust. It admits of many degrees up to full assurance of faith, in accordance with the evidence on which it rests. Faith is the result of teaching (Rom. 10:14-17). Knowledge is an essential element in all faith, and is sometimes spoken of as an equivalent to faith (John 10:38; 1 John 2:3). Yet the two are distinguished in this respect, that faith includes in it assent, which is an act of the will in addition to the act of the understanding. Assent to the truth is of the essence of faith, and the ultimate ground on which our assent to any revealed truth rests is the veracity of God. Historical faith is the apprehension of and assent to certain statements which are regarded as mere facts of history. Temporary faith is that state of mind which is awakened in men (e.g., Felix) by the exhibition of the truth and by the influence of religious sympathy, or by what is sometimes styled the common operation of the Holy Spirit. Saving faith is so called because it has eternal life inseparably connected with it. It cannot be better defined than in the words of the Assembly's Shorter Catechism: "Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for salvation, as he is offered to us in the gospel." The object of saving faith is the whole revealed Word of God. Faith accepts and believes it as the very truth most sure. But the special act of faith which unites to Christ has as its object the person and the work of the Lord Jesus Christ

(emphasis mine)

Good morning Gordon,

I agree with many of the things you write. It is true that God has given to every man the measure of faith, man is to put it into exercise and let that light shine.

Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of our faith. The faith “given†is the “faith of Jesus†and He is “the true Light which ‘gives’ light to every man coming into the world†(1 John 1:10).

Again: the word of God is the means, the channel, of faith; for “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.†“For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.†Rom. 1:20. They are without excuse because the invisible things of Christ, the Person, the object of faith, are clearly seen, though He is “invisible†to all.

Therefore, to all people there is given faith to begin with: and all they need to do is to cultivate faith. No one can cultivate faith in Christ unless “the faith†has been given to every man.

An author quoted:

“Faith gives all an equal chance, because faith is just as easy for one person as for another. God has dealt to every man a measure of faith, and to all the same measure, for the measure of grace is the measure of faith, and “unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.†Eph.4:7. Christ is given without reserve to every man. Heb. 2:9. Therefore, as the same measure of faith and grace is given to all men, all have an equal opportunity to gain the inheritance.â€

That faith which God deals to man is indicated in Revelation 14:12: “Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.†God does not give faith to the saints only, any more than He gives the commandments to them alone; but the saints keep the faith, and others do not.â€

Now the question is, In what measure has God given every man faith? This is really answered in the fact already learned, that the faith which he gives is the faith of Jesus. The faith of Jesus is given in the gift of Jesus himself, and Christ is given in His fulness to every man. He tasted death for every man. Heb. 2:9.. “Unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.†Eph. 4:7. Christ is not divided; therefore to every man is given all of Christ and all of His faith. There is but one measure.†End Quote

John

 

[PreciousMessage]

Hey John,

That is great and you know there is so much we can gleen from that passage ( refer to John 4:27-42 as quoted above )

Our pastor brought out another aspect yesterday. For us here who have the seasons, this is harvest time. The farmer gathers all the crops from a bountiful year. And in this passage in verse 35, Christ talks about harvest time. Jesus is gaining momentum here and tells us that the harvest is plentiful and the fields are ripe.

Some of the harvest priciples:

1--- Jar of predjudice.... We are the salt and light .... designed to impact people. We have to be like the Samaritan woman and leave our jar behind. She met Jesus in verse 28 and found that the things of this world will grow strangely dim in the light of His Glory and Grace. She found the living water.

2--- Jar of their own needs.... The disciples in verse 31 were more concerned with thier needs and searching for food for their bodies but Jesus told them "I have food you know nothing about" ." My food is to do the will of the Father" In other words..... Seek God first and He will take care of you.

3---- Jar of vision... Verse 35 He tells us to open our eyes and look. Sometimes even though we have our physical eyes open our spiritual eyes are not open. Don't limit God. The Harvest time is now. We must work for the Master as the time is right and the fields are ripe and ready for picking. One might sow and the next one reaps. We are all designed for different tasks.

4---- Jar of tradition... Traditional barriers have to be broken down and we live in a country or society where many cultures are the melting pot of the world ( At least that is true here in Toronto ). We must be willing to get out of our comfort zone, make a decision to be like Jesus and and go where we have never gone before.

5... Jar of decison.. We have to decide like the Samaritan woman to leave our jar ... go and tell people of the city about Jesus , make a decisive decision and take action. Ask the Lord of the Harvest what He would have you do.

Hi Dusty,

Well stated overall. I am English-Celtic with my last name being Sheffield. My wife of 21 years, Alesia is Spanish; her maiden name being Valdez. We get interesting looks of puzzlement all the time. Appearance and culture can go hand in hand. ... There are a two tribes in Africa who despise each other because the shape of the nose is noticeably different than the other tribe.

" ... for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart" 1 Sam. 16:7.

But deep down, the crux of the problem is the "sin problem." Without the living water, Christ Jesus, politics, war, and every other human devising will never bring peace to the heart. "For I determined not to know anything, except Jesus Christ crucified." Blessed are the peacemakers; for they shall be called the children of God."

John

 

[Nathi]

John 4:27-42

Many Samaritans Believe

39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me everything I ever did." 40So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41And because of his words many more became believers.
42They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."

1. The Woman testified and many of the Samaritans believed because of the testimony

Wow thank God, I have testified and preached Christ..People have believed Him, what a great wondeful thing..thank God..

But wait a minute, there is more need to be done by a believer of the testimony, You don't become satisfied but you

2. You urge Him[Jesus Christ] to stay with you and He will stay more than two days but till eternity by Holy Spirit fellowship, and many more believed[Because Him Spoke they believed, why? Because His lips are full of Grace, he speak beutiful words and they got power o change a Human being]

This tell us you don't need to here us only preach and you believe and end there but you need to go further urge Him to stay with you, you need to seek Him everyday, until come to the full knowledge of Him.......Then we will here You say

3."We no longer believe just because you have testified, preached, evangelized to us, because my parents are born again, because I've seen Him change my brother who was drunkard, I've seen prostitute chande, i've deaf seeing etc. that's wonderful..but now I believe in HIM because I've heared Him speak face to face with me, heared His voice, I've had an encounter with Him, Seen Him touch Him, experience His presence and Glory that's why I believe that He is indeed the saviour of the world, He has indeed made me to hear and see, I no longer live but it's Him who lives in me''

The reason there are so many lukewarm Christian, we ended in Step 1...We need to go beyond the testimony, seek Him ourselves..testimony and preachings are steping stones, increasers of apetite to seek Him more.........Are you a Christian because your parants are christian, or because somebody say Jesus Saves? you can't say the Lord is my Sheppered if you don't know the Sheppered you need to come to the level of know the voice of the shepered and knowing Him, if people can go beyond us preacheres of Good news, testifies..and seek Him, read the bible, pray, meditate, praise Him, walk on His ways..the Christian would be having a 100% Gospel not the diluted gospel which is around the world, the blood of Jesus is 100% it need no dilution..the Gospel without holiness and power of the Spirit of God is dead.

Amen

 

[Dusty]

Very good points Nathi..... God bless.:amen::amen:reach:reach:

 

[Nathi]

Another Sister opened that scripture, i realised why I was a still a captive of sin a lier and everthing, even though I called myself saved since I went to the altar in the revival (4 yrs ago), but the reason is that I didn't invite Him to come in..I invited Him(7 month ago), and He is dining with me, Him and the Father under the fellowship of Holy Spirit......I am dying everyday, and He is Living in me.........A Quetion.....Do you really know Him??

 

[Dusty]

Nathi.... that is a wonderful testimony. I did not know if you were directing that last question to me or throwing it out to everyone.

.........A Quetion.....Do you really know Him??

Yes , Nathi , thanks I really do know Him and there is a difference between knowing of Him and knowing Him. I accepted Jesus into my heart very young and served Him in my teens and remember many nights with my friends , seeking His face, receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.and getting baptisted in water.

Unfortunately in my 20s I gradually got sucked into the world and lived like that for many years. I came back to the Lord in the fall of 78 so you see I have many yrs of knowing the Lord's faithfulness on my life and He is the cornerstone in my life. He is there for me every day and I can only thank and praise His name for now I am a retired senior and He has given me awesome health and strength and I just want to serve Him in every way I can.

Thanks for asking.

I could have made it longer as so many things have happened that He has protected me from but wanted to condence it so as not to bore you. God bless you Nathi and keep on the straight and narrow road with Jesus at your side.

 

[Nathi]

I wasn't directing to You..sorry for misunderstanding......It's for people to rearlly check themselves really not you Dusty.....God is using you in this forum for me to Grow, since I have came your post of scriptures especially about Guidance has really bless me..

May the purpose and plans of God about your life be fulfilled even in your old age

Amen

 

[Dusty]

May the purpose and plans of God about your life be fulfilled even in your old age

That is so sweet.... thankyou Nathi. Do you know that even last year I went on a mission trip with young people and one girl had a vision and told me I was going to be a mentor to young people and be a blessing to them. I didn't really think much about it until I came to this forum and have had a lot of young people pm me and ask a lot of questions so possisibly this is my calling to be here. God is good all the time and we have to be open and receptive to His calling .

 

[ModeratorTeam]

Warning

Even after the Moderator Team posted a reminder for posters in this discussion concerning observing the viewpoints of others, we still have an on-going case of "my information is better than your information" and this thread is at a stalemate. This is just another of many topics that has been discussed for centuries with no majority concensus and this topic will not be resolved here at CFS either.

Therefore, the thread is being closed for a length of time to allow those persons who do not honor the viewpoints of others, to review their posts and evaluate their own demeanor. If and when this thread is reopened at a later date, anyone not conforming to the wishes of the Moderator Team will be disciplined by our points system or even banned. Thank you for your cooperation.