Second Chance?????

[Major]

Have you considered 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. I am not going to post it but take the time to notice it carefully and tell me what you think.

Notice specifically in verse #1 that there is a "Gathering together to Him".

I personally believe that Paul is talking about the Rapture.

Then verse #3 says that there must be a "Falling away". The Greek word there is ....."Apostasia". Then the A/C will be revealed.

Verses #7 and #8 are redundant Scriptures and they confirm verses 1-3.

Then in verse #12 we read..........
"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness".

so then according to those Scriptures there is ...........
1. A GATHERING of saints.
2. A FALLING AWAY.
3. The Anti-Christ.
4. Those left at that time who did not believe on Christ to be saved,,,,,"THEY ALL might be damned".

Does that say to you that the people who have HEARD the gospel today and rejected Christ, then the GATHERING takes place which ushers in the A/C......then those people can not be saved during the next 7 years???????

So where does the revival come from Revelation 7:14 1............
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Could they come from nations such as Muslims, Hindus, achiest China etc. who have never heard the gospel???????

 

[bobinfaith]

Hello Major;

Notice specifically in verse #1 that there is a "Gathering together to Him". I personally believe that Paul is talking about the Rapture.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1 the ESV starts with "Concerning" This is Paul's stern care and teaching for preparing the way for the Rapture, or Christ's second coming.

Then verse #3 says that there must be a "Falling away". The Greek word there is ....."Apostasia". Then the A/C will be revealed.

Sad, but many will not have ears to hear and will fall away into apostasy, but verse 3 is also a way for believers and new believers to turn back
releasing hopelessness and instead receiving preparedness looking unto Christ.

Verses #7 and #8 are redundant Scriptures and they confirm verses 1-3. Agreed, amen.

Then in verse #12 we read..........
"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness".

God gives the sinner, man or woman the will or choice of being untruthful, for it shows God’s judgment on those who reject the truth.

So where does the revival come from Revelation 7:14 1............
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Those who remain faithful to the Trinity will receive the greatest purifier, Christ Jesus, thus, have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Could they come from nations such as Muslims, Hindus, achiest China etc. who have never heard the gospel???????

Yes, Major, if I'm understanding your last question, I believe all nations, not just Muslims, Hindus, non-believers in China are included, who are receiving the Gospel, today.

God bless you and thank you for sharing this profound reminder.

 

[Major]

Hello Major;

Notice specifically in verse #1 that there is a "Gathering together to Him". I personally believe that Paul is talking about the Rapture.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1 the ESV starts with "Concerning" This is Paul's stern care and teaching for preparing the way for the Rapture, or Christ's second coming.

Then verse #3 says that there must be a "Falling away". The Greek word there is ....."Apostasia". Then the A/C will be revealed.

Sad, but many will not have ears to hear and will fall away into apostasy, but verse 3 is also a way for believers and new believers to turn back
releasing hopelessness and instead receiving preparedness looking unto Christ.

Verses #7 and #8 are redundant Scriptures and they confirm verses 1-3. Agreed, amen.

Then in verse #12 we read..........
"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness".

God gives the sinner, man or woman the will or choice of being untruthful, for it shows God’s judgment on those who reject the truth.

So where does the revival come from Revelation 7:14 1............
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Those who remain faithful to the Trinity will receive the greatest purifier, Christ Jesus, thus, have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Could they come from nations such as Muslims, Hindus, achiest China etc. who have never heard the gospel???????

Yes, Major, if I'm understanding your last question, I believe all nations, not just Muslims, Hindus, non-believers in China are included, who are receiving the Gospel, today.

God bless you and thank you for sharing this profound reminder.

Thank you for joining in!

This is something that I have been teaching for a long time. Even before the movies came out.

It is difficult for me to accept that anyone in the "West" has not heard the gospel. I think that everyone has heard the name of "Christ" and Christmas and Easter so in essence that have heard about who or what Christ is so they stand in unbelief.

I do not think anyone who has rejected Christ today can be saved if the Rapture happens tonight! They are cooked!

You see......here is the reason I sayhat, if they have rejected Christ and then the Rapture is true and millions disappear......and then it dawns on them that we old fuddy duddies were right all along and then they want to accept Christ......they would NOT be coming to Christ out of the conviction of the Holy Spirit but because the Rapture actually did take place. We do not get saved believing upon the Rapture!

That is NOT how any man can be saved, thus 2 Thess. 2:12 is confirmed.

But...........that is just and old country boys way of thinking and allowing the Scriptures to speak.

 

[crossnote]

You see......here is the reason I sayhat, if they have rejected Christ and then the Rapture is true and millions disappear......and then it dawns on them that we old fuddy duddies were right all along and then they want to accept Christ......they would NOT be coming to Christ out of the conviction of the Holy Spirit but because the Rapture actually did take place. We do not get saved believing upon the Rapture!

Assuming the pre-trib rapture is true, can you imagine the utter chaos that will ensue after the rapture? I can imagine that this would get many to think long and hard on what they heard previously.

 

[Major]

Assuming the pre-trib rapture is true, can you imagine the utter chaos that will ensue after the rapture? I can imagine that this would get many to think long and hard on what they heard previously.

Yes sir I have.

And because they have heard what was coming and then experienced that event, then they will want to accept Christ.
However.......that is not coming to Christ in faith of the gospel. That is belief in the Rapture that happened and no can be saved on that account.

 

[crossnote]

Yes sir I have.

And because they have heard what was coming and then experienced that event, then they will want to accept Christ.
However.......that is not coming to Christ in faith of the gospel. That is belief in the Rapture that happened and no can be saved on that account.

That's assuming that the rapture event is the only thing that moves them, but who knows, because of the event some may take inventory of what they have said and did according to God's Word, repent and believe.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Have you considered 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. I am not going to post it but take the time to notice it carefully and tell me what you think.

Notice specifically in verse #1 that there is a "Gathering together to Him".

I personally believe that Paul is talking about the Rapture.

Then verse #3 says that there must be a "Falling away". The Greek word there is ....."Apostasia". Then the A/C will be revealed.

Verses #7 and #8 are redundant Scriptures and they confirm verses 1-3.

Then in verse #12 we read..........
"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness".

so then according to those Scriptures there is ...........
1. A GATHERING of saints.
2. A FALLING AWAY.
3. The Anti-Christ.
4. Those left at that time who did not believe on Christ to be saved,,,,,"THEY ALL might be damned".

Does that say to you that the people who have HEARD the gospel today and rejected Christ, then the GATHERING takes place which ushers in the A/C......then those people can not be saved during the next 7 years???????

So where does the revival come from Revelation 7:14 1............
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Could they come from nations such as Muslims, Hindus, achiest China etc. who have never heard the gospel???????

Think that the redeemed called out by God in end times will indeed be from among those groups that you listed!

 

[YeshuaFan]

That's assuming that the rapture event is the only thing that moves them, but who knows, because of the event some may take inventory of what they have said and did according to God's Word, repent and believe.

well, if one holds to a literal premil viewpoint, there shall be 144 Thousand Grahams and Whitefield and Spurgeons let loose by God in the end!

 

[crossnote]

well, if one holds to a literal premil viewpoint, there shall be 144 Thousand Grahams and Whitefield and Spurgeons let loose by God in the end!

I didn't realize that Graham, Whitefield and Spurgeon were from the twelve tribes of Israel (tongue in cheek)...

Revelation 7:4 (NASB) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

(maybe I'm too literal)

 

[YeshuaFan]

I didn't realize that Graham, Whitefield and Spurgeon were from the twelve tribes of Israel (tongue in cheek)...

Revelation 7:4 (NASB) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

(maybe I'm too literal)

well, John had the "spirit of Elijah", so maybe all of them will have the "spirit" of those I listed!

 

[Major]

well, if one holds to a literal premil viewpoint, there shall be 144 Thousand Grahams and Whitefield and Spurgeons let loose by God in the end!

Correct.

Revelation 11:3-5
"And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the [a]God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner."

They will be so hated and despised that that Revelation 11: 7-10 says that the world then ...........
"When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth."

 

[Major]

well, John had the "spirit of Elijah", so maybe all of them will have the "spirit" of those I listed!

Some say Moses and Elijah.

In Zechariah 4's context, these two individuals are thought to be Joshua (the current high priest) and Zerubbabel (the current governor of Judah).

I for one believe it will be TWO converted JEWISH Rabbis. . God is perfectly capable of taking two “ordinary” believers and enabling them to perform the same signs and wonders that Moses and Elijah did. There is nothing in Rev. 11. that requires us to assume a “famous” identity for the two witnesses.

Speaking of John the Baptist, Luke wrote in 1:17 that he would........
"And he shall go before him "IN THE SPIRIT AND POWER OF ELIAS", to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord".

​

 

[crossnote]

well, if one holds to a literal premil viewpoint, there shall be 144 Thousand Grahams and Whitefield and Spurgeons let loose by God in the end!

Correct.

Revelation 11:3-5
"And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the [a]God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner."

They will be so hated and despised that that Revelation 11: 7-10 says that the world then ...........
"When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth."

Except the 144,000 are literally from the Twelve Tribes of Israel...

Revelation 7:4-8 (NASB) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

Revelation 11 speaks of the two witnesses, who will be like Elijah, Moses, Whitefield, Spurgeon, Graham rolled into one

 

[Major]

Except the 144,000 are literally from the Twelve Tribes of Israel...

Revelation 7:4-8 (NASB) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

Revelation 11 speaks of the two witnesses, who will be like Elijah, Moses, Whitefield, Spurgeon, Graham rolled into one

Yes.....the 144 k are definitely Jewish, virgin men.

I am a "literalist" so I believe 144 thousand is actually exactly what it says.....144 thousand virgin, Jewish men. !2 k from each tribe.

Some do but I do not think that the 12 k are "symbolic". Jesus gave this testimony and id He said 12 thousand from each tribe of Jews that He meant 12 thousand and I see no reason to try and SPIRITUALIZE that number or explain it away.

 

[crossnote]

Yes.....the 144 k are definitely Jewish, virgin men.

I am a "literalist" so I believe 144 thousand is actually exactly what it says.....144 thousand virgin, Jewish men. !2 k from each tribe.

Some do but I do not think that the 12 k are "symbolic". Jesus gave this testimony and id He said 12 thousand from each tribe of Jews that He meant 12 thousand and I see no reason to try and SPIRITUALIZE that number or explain it away.

I agree, but got confused when YF referenced the 144,000 and you replied referencing the two witnesses.
I always thought the two were more like Elijah/Spurgeon etc., than the 144,000.

 

[crossnote]

Some say Moses and Elijah.

In Zechariah 4's context, these two individuals are thought to be Joshua (the current high priest) and Zerubbabel (the current governor of Judah).

I for one believe it will be TWO converted JEWISH Rabbis. . God is perfectly capable of taking two “ordinary” believers and enabling them to perform the same signs and wonders that Moses and Elijah did. There is nothing in Rev. 11. that requires us to assume a “famous” identity for the two witnesses.

Speaking of John the Baptist, Luke wrote in 1:17 that he would........
"And he shall go before him "IN THE SPIRIT AND POWER OF ELIAS", to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord".

I had a SS teacher when I was a babe in the Lord who was Amil and tried to make a case that the two witnesses in Rev 11 were the Bible and the Church. I wasn't familiar with the Amil position at that time, but something didn't sit right, like, 'how could the Bible be slain and fire come out of it's mouth?'. But I guess when you start spiritualizing the text any thing can be turned into something it is not.

 

[Major]

I agree, but got confused when YF referenced the 144,000 and you replied referencing the two witnesses.
I always thought the two were more like Elijah/Spurgeon etc., than the 144,000.

The truth is that no knows. Ecery one has an idea but no one knows and I suspect that God did that for a reason.

My personal idea is that 2 Jewish Rabbis will be converted by God immediately after the Rapture.

IMPO.....they will be like Billy Sunday and Oliver B. Green!

Spitting fire and nailing coffins! They will be consumed and operated by the Holy Spirit in a way that has never been seen before.

 

[Major]

I had a SS teacher when I was a babe in the Lord who was Amil and tried to make a case that the two witnesses in Rev 11 were the Bible and the Church. I wasn't familiar with the Amil position at that time, but something didn't sit right, like, 'how could the Bible be slain and fire come out of it's mouth?'. But I guess when you start spiritualizing text any thing can be turned into something it is not.

Correct.

When allegories, and symbolism replace the LITERAL Word of God, anything can happen.......and does!

 

[Major]

I agree, but got confused when YF referenced the 144,000 and you replied referencing the two witnesses.
I always thought the two were more like Elijah/Spurgeon etc., than the 144,000.

Please do not ever let me confuse you. Just ask me! I will do my simple down to earth best to explain.

Remember that because I am an old country boy, I tend to think before I speak, but because I am old, I forget what it was I was thinking about......
so ask me!

 

[crossnote]

Please do not ever let me confuse you. Just ask me! I will do my simple down to earth best to explain.

Remember that because I am an old country boy, I tend to think before I speak, but because I am old, I forget what it was I was thinking about......
so ask me!

Well between the two of you I wouldn't know who to ask first. It was like a tag team coming from two different directions. lol