Second Chance?????

Major said:
Yes.....the 144 k are definitely Jewish, virgin men.

I am a "literalist" so I believe 144 thousand is actually exactly what it says.....144 thousand virgin, Jewish men. !2 k from each tribe.

Some do but I do not think that the 12 k are "symbolic". Jesus gave this testimony and id He said 12 thousand from each tribe of Jews that He meant 12 thousand and I see no reason to try and SPIRITUALIZE that number or explain it away.
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I too see this as being literal also, and do know that some indeed see this as meaning spiritually saved in end times, not specific jews!
 
crossnote said:
Except the 144,000 are literally from the Twelve Tribes of Israel...

Revelation 7:4-8 (NASB) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

Revelation 11 speaks of the two witnesses, who will be like Elijah, Moses, Whitefield, Spurgeon, Graham rolled into one
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Agreed!
 
YeshuaFan said:
I too see this as being literal also, and do know that some indeed see this as meaning spiritually saved in end times, not specific jews!
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Yes. And they do that because of their AGENDA that is NOT based in the Word of God but on personal opinions from those who reject the Literal Word of God.

Then their "imaginations" become more important than what God actually and literally said.
 
crossnote said:
I agree, but got confused when YF referenced the 144,000 and you replied referencing the two witnesses.
I always thought the two were more like Elijah/Spurgeon etc., than the 144,000.
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The 144000 will be gifted evangelist, but those 2 witnesses will also be supernaturally gifted. as Moses was for God!
 
crossnote said:
I had a SS teacher when I was a babe in the Lord who was Amil and tried to make a case that the two witnesses in Rev 11 were the Bible and the Church. I wasn't familiar with the Amil position at that time, but something didn't sit right, like, 'how could the Bible be slain and fire come out of it's mouth?'. But I guess when you start spiritualizing the text any thing can be turned into something it is not.
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Yes, some indeed do see this as being israel and the Church, but how can those two die and get resurrected again?
 
Major said:
Yes. And they do that because of their AGENDA that is NOT based in the Word of God but on personal opinions from those who reject the Literal Word of God.

Then their "imaginations" become more important than what God actually and literally said.
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I hold to Covenant theology, but even I can see that Israel and Church mean different things!
 
crossnote said:
Where does it say that the 144,000 will be gifted evangelists?
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Note.....The 144,000 are not sealed to become Israel but are sealed OUT OF Israel.

Rev 7:9: .........
"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands”.

These are those saved by the ministry of the 144,000 Jewish evangelists from without the world as the witness to every nation and people.. The white robes ands palm branches speak of salvation.

Rev. 7:13-14..........
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

This is a future people that are saved during the great tribulation. This is not taking place now.​
 
Major said:
Note.....The 144,000 are not sealed to become Israel but are sealed OUT OF Israel.

Rev 7:9: .........
"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands”.

These are those saved by the ministry of the 144,000 Jewish evangelists from without the world as the witness to every nation and people.. The white robes ands palm branches speak of salvation.

Rev. 7:13-14..........
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

This is a future people that are saved during the great tribulation. This is not taking place now.​
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I agree with that as that was an earlier point I had made, but here I was asking YF, "Where does it say that the 144,000 will be gifted evangelists?"
 
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