September 2015

Penion said:
What is the SECOND rapture? And who will be in it? Are there more raptures after the second?

Aren't there some Christians left behind to be purged by the Tribulation?
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Seems to me that the Bible describes TWO general resurrections.

Every one is involved in one or the other.

John 5:28-29.............
"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life (1); and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.(2)".

My understanding is the Rapture of "believers #1 will be the start of the Tribulation Period and then the 2nd resurrection will be 1000 years later at the end of the Millennium Period which will be for the lost at the Great White Throne.
 
Abdicate said:
I agree with you but you misunderstood my statement. I wasn't talking about the "watch" part, but the worthy to escape part. Even still, I don't understand how you got current events and the news from my comments... I was talking about the rapture and it's not a right, but a gift for those found faithful and are worthy.
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All I was saying was that we all, especially ME have spent a lot of time looking for the 2nd Return. I have in years past and still do look at news and see what is there to confirm the 2nd Coming.

Yes, it is a gift, the Rapture. I know I am not worthy and really do not know of anyone who is. I am just glad that Jesus has forgiven me and allowed me to be one of His kids.
 
Penion said:
What is the SECOND rapture? And who will be in it? Are there more raptures after the second?

Aren't there some Christians left behind to be purged by the Tribulation?
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Yes, I believe a lot of self-proclaimed "christians" will be left behind because they're really not Christians at all. They prayed the "1,2,3, pray after me" prayer and think their Christians and are not. The word of God plainly states:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (ESV2011)
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.​

Christians who practices these things have to ask themselves if they're really Christians and they don't feel bad about committing any of the things. When they don't want to pray or read the word of God or meditate and cease from sin, then they're not real Christians. They're the stoney ground Christians who are only trying on Christianity to see if it fit, but when the persecutions start or they're called out for remaining in their sins and run away from Jesus, they're the ones Jesus says, "I never knew you." Show me in the word of God where is says and Christian gets by with sinning? A real Christian falls into sin, but will not remain there. HUGH difference than someone who doesn't want to be bothered with about purity and believes they bought fire insurance from the used car preacher who just wants to rack up the numbers in his "church".

There are actually several raptures in the word of God. The next ones are: pre-trib, two at the post-trib and one in the middle - that one is for the Two Witnesses. Now you know why there's such a debate on this to the point that some have chosen to not believe in any rapture although there have been many, including, but not limited to, Enoch, Elijah and Jesus. Philip has a teleportation rapture. Get back into the word of God and out of the end-time books and theories. We have a whole rapture thread here: http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/the-raptures-harpazo-of-the-scriptures.42449/
 
Well the timing of everything is not confusing for those who believe in the resurrection and the historicist view of revelation.


Those that believe in pre-trib and rapture have a hard time reconciling all the scriptures theyve pulled out of order.
 
Major said:
All I was saying was that we all, especially ME have spent a lot of time looking for the 2nd Return. I have in years past and still do look at news and see what is there to confirm the 2nd Coming.

Yes, it is a gift, the Rapture. I know I am not worthy and really do not know of anyone who is. I am just glad that Jesus has forgiven me and allowed me to be one of His kids.
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What's interesting is there's a prophecy about this: Second Coming Fatigue and though I'm not sure we're the first to have it, it certainly is out there...

2 Peter 3:4 (KJV)
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.​
 
Lanolin said:
Well the timing of everything is not confusing for those who believe in the resurrection and the historicist view of revelation.
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What is the historicist view of Revelation?

Those that believe in pre-trib and rapture have a hard time reconciling all the scriptures theyve pulled out of order.
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Not so! We have no difficulty in knowing all scripture and the perfect timeline in sequence as laid out for us there. You just choose to misunderstand it. It is a choice, you know.
 
ALL my scriptures agree. I can't emphasize enough that you MUST ask the Holy Spirit to be with you as you read scripture and LISTEN, carefully to that voice. Otherwise you will have confusion and lack clarity. If all your scriptures don't seem to agree to you - go back and find out why. You have to read from the foundation that EVERYTHING is truth. And every verse has a good reason for being there. Some things are stated outright and repeated. Some accumulate and are not as easily seen. For me - this wasn't always true but you have to be willing to learn directly from the source and allow others to help you understand. @Euphemia is very correct - your decisions on God's Word is a CHOICE and is not based on how smart or stupid we are - it is letting go of your own will/pride in self and letting God lead you.
 
Lanolin said:
Those that believe in pre-trib and rapture have a hard time reconciling all the scriptures theyve pulled out of order.
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You are the one that has a hard time reconciling all the scriptures. Remember you have three of your own fingers pointing back at you when you point something out to someone else.
 
Romans 12:18 and more
Strive - do your part - make all efforts to live peacefully with all men
Especially the brethren - Love one another - do not tear one another down or insist on your own ways........build each other up

Love keep no record of wrongs - Love see's the best - Love does not demand it's own way -

If nothing else take some advice from kenny Rodgers - lol you got to know when to hold up and know when to fold and WALK AWAY...............
God Bless
Jim
 
Lanolin said:
No, dont accuse the brethren.
I have no problem with scripture, but I notice you did. I was just saying.
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Where is the underlined found in scripture? What exactly do you think you are being "accused" of? Having just seen the Romans 12 reference, I do not think that applies. Being silent when someone types perceived error is not in my scriptures. Good people can disagree and it can be enlightening to thrash it out but not when one party, or the other can't accept correction. It's given out of love and should be accepted as such. And left if no agreement can be reached. Accuse sounds a lot like attacked and if you feel unfairly attacked you should say so and why.
 
I was hugely disappointed by the Pike's Peak Prophecy Summit. I missed 2 or 3 and will watch them shortly. Apparently they had some sort of ban on September and all anyone said was "soon, very soon". Dan Goodwin said he didn't know when but his best bet was the fall and said Tishri, Tishri, Tishri. They replaced speakers off live stream into other rooms. Doc Marquis said he was giving his "last presentation" but never said why. Just that he planned to be busy. They had one economic guy, Jerry Robinson, who said the stock exchange is already cursed, could not therefore be ever blessed and America was not under judgment, so go with his trading company and he would get you thru. It was a joke. Bill Salus gave a bunch of prophecy that he calls pretrib, ie Gog Magog war. I have to rewatch Cornuke's Searching for the Crucifixion Sight (sic) of Christ, as my computer crashed but it wasn't previously scheduled there and appeared to be a last minute switch. I was disappointed.
 
I have watched 3 Prophecy summits and I have yet to see a prophecy expert/pastor/speaker who doesn't see the pretrib rapture in scripture. You mid and post tribbers might want to think about that.
 
Silk said:
I have watched 3 Prophecy summits and I have yet to see a prophecy expert/pastor/speaker who doesn't see the pretrib rapture in scripture. You mid and post tribbers might want to think about that.
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I'm essentially a "no opinion" but I will comment on this one.

There is some debate over whether the pre tribulation dispensationalism was followed by some early Christians. Those who go that way can argue they did. Critics can argue it was a 19C invention.

I've no interest in that argument but this line of thought does seem to be absent from the church for centuries. Luther didn't see it, John Bunyan didn't see it...

It only (?re) emerges with John Darby and the Plymouth Bretheren in the 19th C. It later gets picked on on by Schofield. It get's taken up in America by the likes of Moody and mostly by Fundamentalists and Evangelicals.

It is far from the majority view. The Eastern Orthodox Church reject it as heresy. As far as I know it is not a Roman Caltholic view. It is not even a view shared by anywhere near all Protestant churches.

My own conclusion when I tried to look in to the different proposals for end times was that they largely wind up following historical and geo political lines. The bulk of 21C North America probably does see things your way but that is just one place and point in history.
 
You can find an accurate view of the pretrib rapture on the Rapture/Harpazo thread started by Abdicate. Over a year ago, I did not see it in scripture. NOW I do. I don't care what others hold or not, now or then. Is it in scripture? And where? It turns out it is throughout scripture. Before I saw it - my scriptures did not agree and now they do. In the past, every generation thought they were the last. We are the last generation. I was speaking to the prophecy summits and they all say pretrib...and more and more ordinary people are seeing it as well. The one exception this summit was the economic guy who seems to be sitting on his theology. Salus was trying to move events to pretrib that can't be so IF the trib starts in mid Sept. But he seemingly believes the gog/magog war starts before the rapture. If you don't want to find it in scripture - that is your choice but it IS there.
 
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